S40 frameset build options...

Postapocalypsia

Active Member
Hi Learned Folk,
I have just bought an S40 frameset and am looking at running gear options.
I plan to use the bike for commuting (with hills) and hopefully a bit of touring. My experience so far has been on a Q559 with dual drive. I run an 11-36 cassette on that with 1.95 Kenda tyres.
What interests me for the S40 is the Sram Eagle NX 1x12 rear setup with an 11-50 cassette. I want to match this with the standard S40 42T 165mm crank. I know the Eagle gear will only run Eagle shifters - this is ok with me as long as I know it will fit the S40 drop bars, or something like Soma Gators.
I was assured by a local Sram supplier that the 42T crank will work with the 1x12 cassette.
I also want to run 700x38c Shwalbe Marathon Plus tyres, my logic being that 12 speeds, giving me a gear range of around 450%, should handle the bigger tyres and potential luggage loads on the hills.
Any insights or experiences would be greatly appreciated!
 

jond

Zen MBB Master
Congratulations. Yessssssdd.

Schwalbe marathon plus tyres are really slow and heavy and only needed as a city commuter on glass strewn streetscapes or worse. Marathon still offer very good protection and run faster. I’m experienced only in 406 size and am to try the marathon racer soon. Though it’s supposedly slower though lighter than the marathon. Regarding loadings you’ll need to surf their website.

I can’t help thinking about the dinner size plate cassettes attached to rear wheels and question the validity of 1x for road/even gravel. Especially when you’re up on 50t cassette. .....gee those gaps are huge and the weight complexity hassle not the latest greatest penalty occasional very or never dropped chain of a 2 x looks worth it to me to have decent gear ratio choice without crazy gaps.

for hills you need close gear range as wide as possible. Ask slim he will tell you 3 x

apologies to sram Eagle but 1 x is for downhill and good looks.
 

Postapocalypsia

Active Member
Congratulations. Yessssssdd.

Schwalbe marathon plus tyres are really slow and heavy and only needed as a city commuter on glass strewn streetscapes or worse. Marathon still offer very good protection and run faster. I’m experienced only in 406 size and am to try the marathon racer soon. Though it’s supposedly slower though lighter than the marathon. Regarding loadings you’ll need to surf their website.

I can’t help thinking about the dinner size plate cassettes attached to rear wheels and question the validity of 1x for road/even gravel. Especially when you’re up on 50t cassette. .....gee those gaps are huge and the weight complexity hassle not the latest greatest penalty occasional very or never dropped chain of a 2 x looks worth it to me to have decent gear ratio choice without crazy gaps.

for hills you need close gear range as wide as possible. Ask slim he will tell you 3 x

apologies to sram Eagle but 1 x is for downhill and good looks.
Thanks for your insight @jond
I am open minded about 1 vs 2 cranksets but was influenced by the fact that S40 runs 1x as standard. I checked Dr Google for reviews etc but they seem to score pretty well for efficiency and reliability.
I wasn't aware of big differences between marathon and marathon plus tyres. I guess a bit more homework would help there. I have been happy in the past with Maxxis Gypsys among others.
I am aware of slim's love of 3x cranks. I am just at that stage where a little scrounging around for ideas might save me some costly mistakes and maintainence.
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
Thanks for your insight @jond
I am open minded about 1 vs 2 cranksets but was influenced by the fact that S40 runs 1x as standard. I checked Dr Google for reviews etc but they seem to score pretty well for efficiency and reliability.
I wasn't aware of big differences between marathon and marathon plus tyres. I guess a bit more homework would help there. I have been happy in the past with Maxxis Gypsys among others.
I am aware of slim's love of 3x cranks. I am just at that stage where a little scrounging around for ideas might save me some costly mistakes and maintenance.
I can agree with Jond for a SECOND time!!! Amazing!!! That Marathon + tyres are REALLY slow, as I have them on a Recumbent trike, and they howled when cornering on two wheels, with non predicable sideways traction!!! I finally went to Schwalbe Kojak slick tyres and they were fantastic!!!!!
GO TRIPLE for small steps between gears for climbing, and use a 24/39/53 crank for BIG steps between Climbing / Flat / Descending!
I recently removed my 11T rear cluster sprocket and replaced it with a 16T, so 13, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 23, 26, 30, 34, so I would get an extra gear in the 20 to 30 kph zone
 
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bladderhead

Zen MBB Master
jond said:
apologies to sram Eagle but 1 x is for downhill and good looks.
Bottom gear on my 11sp cog is 42t and I have a 40t chainwheel. Does me fine, up some steep slopes. I can balance at about 3mph. On the steepest hill, if the road is wet I get a bit of wheel-spin. Any steeper and I think the wheel-spin would stop me, not the effort required. And I have COPD. If I had good lungs I could do those hills with a touring load. And nothing will improve my looks. Multiple chainrings drive me MENTAL.

I have XX1 derailleur. I made myself a bar-end friction shifter. All else being equal, it is nice to get more ratios. I would like a new 12sp cog, but I do not think it would fit in my forks. I think it is wider than the 11sp.

Be like Steve Miller and fly like an eagle.
 

ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
Hi Learned Folk,
I have just bought an S40 frameset and am looking at running gear options.
I plan to use the bike for commuting (with hills) and hopefully a bit of touring. My experience so far has been on a Q559 with dual drive. I run an 11-36 cassette on that with 1.95 Kenda tyres.
What interests me for the S40 is the Sram Eagle NX 1x12 rear setup with an 11-50 cassette. I want to match this with the standard S40 42T 165mm crank. I know the Eagle gear will only run Eagle shifters - this is ok with me as long as I know it will fit the S40 drop bars, or something like Soma Gators.
I was assured by a local Sram supplier that the 42T crank will ...

Any insights or experiences would be greatly appreciated!

Here is a blog describing an S40 with SRAM eagle 1x12 setup.
It could be exactly what you wanted.
https://cruzbike.com/blogs/blog/taking-on-the-alpine-county-ca-death-ride
 

rx7mark

Guru
I can’t help thinking about the dinner size plate cassettes attached to rear wheels and question the validity of 1x for road/even gravel. Especially when you’re up on 50t cassette. .....gee those gaps are huge and the weight complexity hassle not the latest greatest penalty occasional very or never dropped chain of a 2 x looks worth it to me to have decent gear ratio choice without crazy gaps.

for hills you need close gear range as wide as possible. Ask slim he will tell you 3 x

apologies to sram Eagle but 1 x is for downhill and good looks.

I think the 1x, 2x, or 3x question really depends on how you are going to use your S40. I have a 1 x 11 system on my T50, which is an exercise bike and a fair weather commuter, and it works great. I can deal with the larger gearing jumps by varying my cadence. I started with a 1 x 42 cassette with a 42 chain ring, but later converted the cassette to 1 x 49 using a Wolf kit. This was to deal with a very long and steep hill I had to go up to start my commute. The gearing change allowed me to ride to the top vs walking part way. I did not even notice the slight larger gaps in the middle gears from this change, I just got a Granny gear that I really only use for the steep stuff.

With 1X you have to learn to ride a bigger range of cadences. But in exchange, the 1x is lighter, simpler, much cheaper, and possibly a bit more reliable. As an example I am approaching 6K miles on my T50, and have never dropped a chain, and probably never will.

But if I were building a touring S40, I would use a 3x crank like Super Slim recommended, and for a fast V20 to ride in a group, I would use a 2x setup. I am planning a bike like this right now.

Of course it might also depend on your tolerance for the big gearing jumps. Some seem to hate them, and can't make the adjustment to 1x.

Mark
 

jond

Zen MBB Master
A 2 x with a chain keeper never drops a chain when set right. Both on vendetta and brevet. Sram red yaw front mech. Weight wise I would not think there was much difference. Especially once you’re up to a 13 to 42 cassette and a 40 t front. Run out of gears downhill. Still what ever floats your boat. 1 x certainly has attributes .
 

Postapocalypsia

Active Member
My theory was simple enough...use the standard setup that Cruzbike has evolved for the S40, and then add a granny gear for when the whips are cracking.
In the end I guess it comes down to prioritising even cadence or simplicity. More homework for me!
The good thing is that, despite personal preferences, you can't go too far wrong with a well designed bike.

@super slim mentioned Shwalbe Kojaks - does anyone know how they cope with wet surfaces or gravel?
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
My theory was simple enough...use the standard setup that Cruzbike has evolved for the S40, and then add a granny gear for when the whips are cracking.
In the end I guess it comes down to prioritising even cadence or simplicity. More homework for me!
The good thing is that, despite personal preferences, you can't go too far wrong with a well designed bike.

@super slim mentioned Shcwalbe Kojaks - does anyone know how they cope with wet surfaces or gravel?
I had 26" * 2.0" Kojak on my Softrider, and no problems on wet grass up to +3% grade, and damp gravel up to 10% grade!
 

ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
What interests me for the S40 is the Sram Eagle NX 1x12 rear setup with an 11-50 cassette. I want to match this with the standard S40 42T 165mm crank. I know the Eagle gear will only run Eagle shifters - this is ok with me as long as I know it will fit the S40 drop bars, or something like Soma Gators.

If you want to use the standard S40 drop handlebar, there is a MicroShift Right Bar End Shifter, 12-Speed for SRAM Eagle. It will fit into the standard road drop handlebars. (19.0 - 22.0mm clamp band). It's $52 plus shipping on ebay. Here is an ebay link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Right-Bar-...459465&hash=item3b42b7a6f6:g:T3kAAOSwxW9eVF~t
LD0157.jpg

IMG_20190713_163552_1024x1024.jpg
 

Postapocalypsia

Active Member
Thanks @ak-tux
I read your blog with interest!
Do you ever have an issue taking your hand off the bar to change gear in a compromised situation like pulling uphill or at traffic lights?
Just curious - it sure ticks a lot of boxes otherwise.
I was wondering too if a regular Eagle shifter and MTB brake combo might go straight on a Soma Gator bar...
 

ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
Thanks @ak-tux
I read your blog with interest!
Do you ever have an issue taking your hand off the bar to change gear in a compromised situation like pulling uphill or at traffic lights?
Just curious - it sure ticks a lot of boxes otherwise.
I was wondering too if a regular Eagle shifter and MTB brake combo might go straight on a Soma Gator bar...

:) It's not my blog! It was written by Nick E.

About the Soma Gator bar, I understand it has MTB diameter hence the Eagle trigger shifter should work , I believe. But I think the cable routing will stick out in an interesting way.

However I use barend shifters myself ( racheted friction type from Dia Compe) , therefore I can say a thing or two about them. (Mine is a cheap homemade bike but resembles an S40. Look at my avatar.)

Dropbars installed on a recumbent, like the S40, will ensure that your hands are almost always at the drops. I shift with my pam and pinky without taking my hand off the handlebar. I only move my hand slightly lower. And this is becuase I chose not to cut the end of the bars a little. Some people do trim about an inch off the end of the drop bars. I don't shift and brake simultaneously with same hand, I believe it's possible but I just don't do it.

Like everything else, you have to get used to it. Pretty soon it becomes second nature.

Advantages of barend shifters:
  • They are truly minimalistic and can be lowcost and light weight compared to STI style brifters
  • They can switch to friction mode in emergency cases when the derailuer has an indexing misconfiguration.
  • In friction mode, you can pretty much shift any cassette speed 8, 9, 10 e.t.c
  • You can shift any number of gear cog jumps at a go. Even top to bottom of the cogs

Disadvantages:
  • If you accidentally drop the bike they can get the impact more easily than brifters, especially on flared dropbars.
  • If you make an extremely tight/sharp turn, whether slow or sudden, there is a chance it can hit your thigh and miss-shift. (very rare but it can happen)

I hope this helps you. Below is a video on how to correctly shift barend shifters:

If you want to see mine in action, watch my right hand in the video below:
 
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ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
Apologies @ak-tux for the mistaken identity!
I appreciate the video clips - I admit I knew nothing about bar end shifters.
Now I am curious about what bars you use, and those nifty mirrors!

Barend shifters can look pretty retro, if you like that sort of thing! :emoji_nerd:

My handlebar is an On-One Midge bar. They are flared dropbars for road touring and gravel/cyclocross bikes. Please note: they will not work with MTB trigger shifters.. (https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBOOMI/on-one-midge-handlebar)
Considering you bought a frameset for S40, then I believe it comes with a nice custom handlebar already! Probably you need to try it first.

The mirrors are from Taiwan purchased from ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-Ha...541492?hash=item1e75cf5774:g:uhIAAOSwIrpaolSr
 

Postapocalypsia

Active Member
Barend shifters can look pretty retro, if you like that sort of thing! :emoji_nerd:

My handlebar is an On-One Midge bar. They are flared dropbars for road touring and gravel/cyclocross bikes. Please note: they will not work with MTB trigger shifters.. (https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBOOMI/on-one-midge-handlebar)
Considering you bought a frameset for S40, then I believe it comes with a nice custom handlebar already! Probably you need to try it first.

The mirrors are from Taiwan purchased from ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-Ha...541492?hash=item1e75cf5774:g:uhIAAOSwIrpaolSr
I certainly plan to try the bars that came with the frameset! I am also thinking of trying drop bars on my Q559 and am curious about what other folks use
 
I certainly plan to try the bars that came with the frameset! I am also thinking of trying drop bars on my Q559 and am curious about what other folks use
I can help with this a bit. I switched to a bachetta giro bar and got rid of the sram dual drive. The bachetta bar was recommended by Joy and Castlerobber on this forum. The front end is much lighter and I like the handling better. I also don’t hit my knee on the shifter any longer. My bar is an inch wider than what they installed. Old stock vs new stock.
 

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3bs

whereabouts unknown
tire wise....
okay i am a schwalbe addict. now i had admitted it on to step two....

two thing to know about schwalbe. the faster the tire the faster it will wear. many also say they are prone to flatting, i have not had the experience. 3 flats in 4 years, all big pieces of something, wire, nail, cactus thorn.

i personally have found that most marathon are pigs but durable. i love the studded one in the winter. that said they are making so many tires call marathons it really inst that easy any more.

the marathon supreme is a great tire. i run it on my hybrid.

the duranos and the kojacks are faster, but they are slicks.

my favorite is really the schwable one. i ride it the most. pavement and dirt roads.

i also have a set of g one speeds that i like. i think they may actually be faster than the ones, even though that shouldn't be the case.

i wanted to try the g one allarounds on my t 50 but they do not make it in a 559. i am told these tires are pretty nice.


shifter wise..
i have a 1x8 on my t50. i really dont like it. but it was how it was set up when i bought it. i am going to go to a 1x11 and see how that works out.

2x11 on the vendetta was great but i could never get it to work totally. dropped to 2x10. all is fine. with the wickwerks 53-34 wide up front and 11-36 in back its a pretty nutty range with lots of steps.
 

velocio

Austrian roadside steckerlfisch (fish on a stick)
I think the 1x, 2x, or 3x question really depends on how you are going to use your S40.
Yes, absolutely, use case + personal preference. Though, I think the case for road triples has become increasingly difficult to make. When you had 7 cogs in back and the biggest cog was a 28, then a 24T "granny" chainring made a lot of sense on a touring bike or tandem. Now that 11s is the norm even on mid priced groups and lots of groups can handle an 11-36 cassette I definitely don't need 3 rings up front to span the range I need on a tandem or touring rig and get decent spacing between gears. And I'm neither young, nor strong at this point ...

I have a 1 x 11 system on my T50, which is an exercise bike and a fair weather commuter, and it works great. I can deal with the larger gearing jumps by varying my cadence. I started with a 1 x 42 cassette with a 42 chain ring, but later converted the cassette to 1 x 49 using a Wolf kit. This was to deal with a very long and steep hill I had to go up to start my commute. The gearing change allowed me to ride to the top vs walking part way. I did not even notice the slight larger gaps in the middle gears from this change, I just got a Granny gear that I really only use for the steep stuff.
Sounds like the perfect use case for a road 1x setup. You mentioned that you "did not even notice the slight larger gaps in the middle gears from this change". Did adding the Wolftooth cassette expander with 49T large cog affect the middle cogs at all?Doesn't it just slot in at the back of the cassette?

With 1X you have to learn to ride a bigger range of cadences. But in exchange, the 1x is lighter, simpler, much cheaper, and possibly a bit more reliable. As an example I am approaching 6K miles on my T50, and have never dropped a chain, and probably never will.
I too have read the SRAM marketing department's many releases stating "1x is lighter, simpler, much cheaper, and possibly a bit more reliable". When I "ran the numbers" for a mid priced drivetrain where I tried to hold the total cost of a 1x and 2x option equal I got a different result; i.e. "1x is about the same weight, simpler to use, more complex to set up, more expensive, and possibly a bit more reliable". In that comparison the 2x drivetrain had a higher high, a lower low and tighter spacing between gears, as well as used parts that are much more commonly available and more often discounted.

But if I were building a touring S40, I would use a 3x crank like Super Slim recommended, and for a fast V20 to ride in a group, I would use a 2x setup. I am planning a bike like this right now.
If I were building a touring S40 ... oh, wait, I am building a touring S40! 2x, 11-36 XT cassette (340g vs the SRAM 1230 11-50's 615g's, at half the cost), Shimano CX-70 FD (90g), 44/28 chainrings on a 155mm crank.

In other news ...

tire wise....
okay i am a schwalbe addict. now i had admitted it on to step two....
Me too, though I sometimes flirt with Conti's.

the marathon supreme is a great tire. i run it on my hybrid.

the duranos and the kojacks are faster, but they are slicks.

my favorite is really the schwable one. i ride it the most. pavement and dirt roads.

i also have a set of g one speeds that i like. i think they may actually be faster than the ones, even though that shouldn't be the case.
The Marathon Supreme is a very, very good tire for recreational riding. More than flat-proof enough, more than fast enough, more than durable enough -- I'm a fan. Definitely get one of the chi-chi Evo variants, which are reasonably priced if ordered from Europe.

Compared to the Marathon Supreme, the Durano and Kojak are both much older designs that are not available with Schwalbe's latest technology and both come up very much slower in instrumented testing -- if you believe those sciencey types with their machines and numbers and testing.

I've no experience with the Schwalbe One's, but they get consistently excellent reviews from credible sources. They're not available in sizes that interest me at this point, so I'll likely not be logging any miles on them anytime soon.

Yes, G-One Speed Evo's for the win! I'm running the 650Bx38's on my S40 and have zero complaints or interest in other tires, other than perhaps if Schwalbe introduces a G-One Speed that's easier to mount. For the very first time in almost 35 years of serious cycling I snapped a tire lever trying to mount a tire, couldn't get the tire mounted even with a bead jack + bead lube and finally, head hung low in shame, had no option but to take the wheels + tires to the LBS. The wrench disappeared in the back with my tires and wheels and came back out some time later with them mounted. I asked how he got them mounted and his reply was "You don't want to know." I've had no flats so far, but I now live in fear of a flat out on the road and a tire I cannot get off or back on. Maybe the beads are sufficiently stretched out now to not be an issue?

-Jack
Raleigh, NC
 
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