S40 questions

tiltmaniac

Zen MBB Master
@dtseng

I dunno-- for many people, the S40's position *is* a sweet spot! :)

In my special-snowflake case, I haven't had to lean on a headrest because I install an aftermarket seat which has an additional bend which keeps my upper body more upright. This drastically changes the fit equation for the bike.
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
I don't own a either a vendetta or a Silvio but in my opinion, more aero does not always translate to more speed if the aero bicycle puts the rider in a posture that restricts his ability to generate optimal power.
Four things affect the speed of the bicycle:
  1. Aerodynamics - This is important at higher speeds
  2. Wheel Rolling resistance - This is more important at higher speeds
  3. Total mass of bicycle and rider against the gradient
  4. The power output of the rider
The last is dependent on the posture (hip angle, seat angle adaptation, e.tc. ).

Whatever is optimal is what one should aim for.

Andrew is right (and this shows up in DF time trial bikes as well). Finding a more aero position that produces less power doesn't always win. And what works for one person may not work for another. So there can be a fair bit of experimentation needed here.
 

ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
How about a compromise in seat angle, say 36 degree, would that be a sweet spot? It's not healthy to place the head heavily on the rest and subject the gray matter to constant vibration.
Like many recumbent bikes/trikes, the seat angle should be made adjustable. Forget about that rigid hydro formed behemoth aluminum tube.
A fast diamond frame (aka DF) road bicycle sizing has no adjustment on the actual frame. Comfort not withstanding, it is a simple, rigid structure that is laterally stiff , lightweight and efficient. For purposes of fit, what changes is the size of the frame itself(no hinged pivots, nuts or bolts) . The rest are not part of the frame, i.e. the length and height of the stem or length of the seat post

Unfortunately, the nature of a recumbent makes the seat an important member of the frame triangle i.e the seat stays the rear lower stays and the seat back. It's hard to have an adjustable seat angle without loosing some level of frame stiffness while adding some weight, no matter how minimal. For some, this is a small sacrifice to make for proper fit. For general riding and none competitive events, this is not an issue and hence the T50 and the QX100 can take some level of seat angle adjustments. I only wish that cruzbike had a unified front boom design similar to the Silvio 1.0 (without the suspension) for these utility bikes. But again, I understand it's difficult to achieve for more upright seat angles.

My take is, those new to cruzbikes(and recumbents in general), should start with an adjustable bike like the QX100 or the T50. They should tweak and mod it as much as possible over several months. Then once they adapt and establish a sweet spot they can choose a used S30 or a new S40 or a V20 depending on whichever will work best.

I guess, as the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it at the same time .... unless you had lots of money and get one custom built for you!
zockra-td-700.jpg
 
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DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
A fast diamond frame (aka DF) road bicycle sizing has no adjustment on the actual frame. Comfort not withstanding, it is a simple, rigid structure that is laterally stiff , lightweight and efficient. For purposes of fit, what changes is the size of the frame itself(no hinged pivots, nuts or bolts) . The rest are not part of the frame, i.e. the length and height of the stem or length of the seat post

Unfortunately, the nature of a recumbent makes the seat an important member of the frame triangle i.e the seat stays the rear lower stays and the seat back. It's hard to have an adjustable seat angle without loosing some level of frame stiffness while adding some weight, no matter how minimal. For some, this is a small sacrifice to make for proper fit. For general riding and none competitive events, this is not an issue and hence the T50 and the QX100 can take some level of seat angle adjustments. I only wish that cruzbike had a unified front boom design similar to the Silvio 1.0 (without the suspension) for these utility bikes. But again, I understand it's difficult to achieve for more upright seat angles.

My take is, those new to cruzbikes(and recumbents in general), should start with an adjustable bike like the QX100 or the T50. They should tweak and mod it as much as possible over several months. Then once they adapt and establish a sweet spot they can choose a used S30 or a new S40 or a V20 depending on whichever will work best.

I guess, as the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it at the same time .... unless you had lots of money and get one custom built for you!
View attachment 5249
Holy crap... that Zockra looks like it could sting a Vendetta to death
 

ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
Holy crap... that Zockra looks like it could sting a Vendetta to death
See, it's not adjustable, at all. It is built to fit a specific rider. Result is an 8Kg(17.637 pounds) FWD MBB bike! Accelerations and hill climbing should be quite good.
O.k. given, it's a 100% carbon, and the boom does not connect directly to the handlebar(key to good power transfer). But hopefully it explains why the Silvio and the Vendetta have fixed angle seats.
 
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joy

Well-Known Member
did you notice a lot of difference in the way it felt from the vendetta i.e. butt pressure from the higher angle, hip angle to pedals ?
I really didn't notice anything other than I could push off of the seat. (No pressure points or anything uncomfortable.) Then, when I next got on the V, I noticed that I couldn't push off. If I could only have one bike, I'd probably keep the S40, but since I can have N+1........
 

Layne

Active Member
I really didn't notice anything other than I could push off of the seat. (No pressure points or anything uncomfortable.) Then, when I next got on the V, I noticed that I couldn't push off. If I could only have one bike, I'd probably keep the S40, but since I can have N+1........

That sounds good ! i went ahead and ordered one..I have a hed stinger 6 wheelset with an aerodisc cover on the back, dura ace di2 with cobb 155 mm cranks and qrings.... will be using rim brakes so i ordered some long reach calipers... looking forward to the build and ride !! the only question yet is bars .. ive used 440 mm road bars on an s30 and a v20 and really like the way they worked.. so unless someone has a really awesome new idea ill prob go with those again !
 
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joy

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="the only question yet is bars .. ive used 440 mm road bars on an s30 and a v20 and really like the way they worked.. so unless someone has a really awesome new idea ill prob go with those again ![/QUOTE]
I used the smallest Woodchipper bars, but then, I am a female, close to Maria's size, and that is what she recommended. I have them on both the S40 and the V, and I had them on my S30 before that . The bars that came with the S40 were way too wide for me, and have been sent on to Australia!
 

Rod Butler

Well-Known Member
Well I bit the bullet and ordered the s40 frameset ... I have dura ace di2 and


That sounds good ! i went ahead and ordered one..I have a hed stinger 6 wheelset with an aerodisc cover on the back, dura ace di2 with cobb 155 mm cranks and qrings.... will be using rim brakes so i ordered some long reach calipers... looking forward to the build and ride !! the only question yet is bars .. ive used 440 mm road bars on an s30 and a v20 and really like the way they worked.. so unless someone has a really awesome new idea ill prob go with those again !
I just did the same after much consideration. I hope to have a Belt drive and a Rolhoff. The numbers work out spot on and with a Exzentriker EBB I should have just enough to make it work. With the 476mm chain-stay, a 20/50 set-up gets me a 122 tooth belt (0.4mm to spare!) and a (+ -) 3mm adjustment
with the EBB. It'll be a 'neat' fit, to be sure.
Mmmmm! ...just have to see what the fit-out throws up. If it doesn't workout in the end I can get my money back on the parts (3) at least.
But if it does, I'm away.
 

Robert Holler

Administrator
Staff member
To everyone - I do not recommend running different wheel and/or tire sizes - it will change the headtube angle, trail, and rake and could have an adverse effect on the handling of the bike. Every bike where there are different wheel sizes - they are designed that way from the beginning - not to change afterwards.

Robert
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
To everyone - I do not recommend running different wheel and/or tire sizes - it will change the headtube angle, trail, and rake and could have an adverse effect on the handling of the bike. Every bike where there are different wheel sizes - they are designed that way from the beginning - not to change afterwards.

Robert

Tire sizes really shouldn't be too noticeable. Different wheel sizes - results might be very bad.
 

Layne

Active Member
Got my S40 frameset this last friday ... i built it up friday evening and took it out for a shake down ride ! Felt pretty good ! Rode it Saturday morning for a 32 mile ride without a seat pad !! If there is one thing i would complain about it's the stock seatpad ! They have fallen a long way .. the split pad from the older model was at least wide enough, this pad is 8.5 inches wide on a 10+ inch wide seat ... disappointing .., I have used the ventisit pads but the ones for the cruzbike seat are so much narrower than the seat they make the seat to small !! Anybody had this issue ? Otherwise I really like the seat angle so far , I use the neck rest but can pick my head up for awhile without problem.....
IMG_2334.JPG
 

Jeremy S

Dude
Got my S40 frameset this last friday ... i built it up friday evening and took it out for a shake down ride ! Felt pretty good ! Rode it Saturday morning for a 32 mile ride without a seat pad !! If there is one thing i would complain about it's the stock seatpad ! They have fallen a long way .. the split pad from the older model was atView attachment 5323 least wide enough, this pad is 8.5 inches wide on a 10+ inch wide seat ... disappointing .., I have used the ventisit pads but the ones for the cruzbike seat are so much narrower than the seat they make the seat to small !! Anybody had this issue ? Otherwise I really like the seat angle so far , I use the neck rest but can pick my head up for awhile without problem.....

My Silvio seat pan is 10" wide (minus the flared bits at the side) and the Ventisit pad fills it and then some. Same for the seat back, the pad looks at least as wide as the seat at all points.
 

ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
Got my S40 frameset this last friday ... i built it up friday evening and took it out for a shake down ride ! Felt pretty good ! Rode it Saturday morning for a 32 mile ride without a seat pad !! If there is one thing i would complain about it's the stock seatpad ! They have fallen a long way .. the split pad from the older model was at least wide enough, this pad is 8.5 inches wide on a 10+ inch wide seat ... disappointing .., I have used the ventisit pads but the ones for the cruzbike seat are so much narrower than the seat they make the seat to small !! Anybody had this issue ? Otherwise I really like the seat angle so far , I use the neck rest but can pick my head up for awhile without problem.....
View attachment 5323
How much does it weigh as shown? How does it ride? How does it climb? Nice bike!
 

Layne

Active Member
How much does it weigh as shown? How does it ride? How does it climb? Nice bike!
It weighs 24.8 lbs with the wheel covers and PowerTap pedals ....

It rides nice.... bumps are muted ..... I've ridden it on some terrible surfaces and was really pretty good ..... as far as climbing it does climb well but does it climb bettter than the vendetta it's hard to say ....but for me I'm more comfortable climbing on the S40 than the V .. seemed like when you go up a hill on the V it lays you back even more and made me feel more disconnected from the bike ..on the s40 its easier to just breathe and spin :)
 
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