Self-Supported Bike Camping on a Silvio 2.0?

[David Lalejini]

I am looking at a used Silvio 2.0 for some bike camping. I know it doesn't have bosses to attach racks, but I have Radical Design Banana Racer Bags that hold my tent, sleeping bag, and other gear. I can also use a scarab bag under the seat for clothes and food. I've done the state of Kentucky on a Catrike 700 along the Trans America, which of course had no stability issues going uphill, but my friends and I are looking at increasing our speed a little (one of these days after retirement we'll do a coast to coast ride). I am curious as to other people's experiences with the Silvio, and any balance issues with bags hanging over the seat. I have a V20 which I am very stable on and have done >200 mile rides on, but don't want to change the set up (eTap, higher gearing) for touring, and think the slightly higher seat angle (~28 degrees) of the Silvio will be better. The S40 might be the best touring choice, but the used Silvio 2.0 is closer to my budget. This bike has 34/50 compact chainring, and a 10-speed 11/36 rear cassette, which seems like a good range for touring. I imagine that if a mountain is too steep and I have to gear down more, I might as well hop off and push. Thanks for any feedback and advice, pictures of your touring set up would also be great!

Pictures below are the used Silvio 2.0 I am looking at, and my Catrike 700 with the Radical Design Banana Racer bags.

 

[Mathew Fy]

Here’s a link to read a blog post:

Couple blogs while crossing the USA

Keith and Joy Kling are riding Cruzbikes on a 4265 mile tour going from Oregon to Maine this summer. They are planning to do a lot sight-seeing and cover about 60 miles/day. An interview on their local TV news station is here with some nice video footage of their Silvios and a trailer...

forum.cruzbike.com

Also read:

"hack" for keeping Radical Design banana racers away from wheel

For a long time I just made sure each bag was full enough, frequently stuffing an unnecessary extra layer on each side to keep them from rubbing. I finally got tired of that and figured out a really simple way to cinch the bags more when they're mostly empty: simply tie a very small loop of...

forum.cruzbike.com

Seat Bags and Frame Bags for Silvio

Viscacha - a funky name for an incredible bag that greats super reviews everywhere I see it. This bag is for ultralight touring, when one doesn't want to use racks. I came across it looking for bags and figuring out what would work on my Silvio. Here is a mockup (ignore the red bag under...

forum.cruzbike.com

I would add a strap to keep the bags tight to the frame to reduce sway.
If you add a rack or tail bag, use it only for light stuff, like sleeping bag & pad. Otherwise you may get a tail-wagging-the-dog sensation.

 

[chicorider]

Paris-Brest-Paris 2023?

Against all reason and better judgement, starting this thread here. Anyone else training for PBP? If I read the message boards right we'll all be starting in Group F (unless there's an 84 hr specials group too) so it would be great to get to know the peloton. @Tor Hovland thanks for your...

forum.cruzbike.com

Here's another potentially helpful thread. I put a rear rack on my S30, which shares the same rear end as the Silvio 2.0.

 

[David Lalejini]

Paris-Brest-Paris 2023?

Against all reason and better judgement, starting this thread here. Anyone else training for PBP? If I read the message boards right we'll all be starting in Group F (unless there's an 84 hr specials group too) so it would be great to get to know the peloton. @Tor Hovland thanks for your...

forum.cruzbike.com

Here's another potentially helpful thread. I put a rear rack on my S30, which shares the same rear end as the Silvio 2.0.

Awesome thanks! Looks very doable on the Silvio, just need to be careful to keep the bags from rubbing on the wheel.

 

[chicorider]

Yes, indeed. Most rear rack panniers have a stiff backing to keep the bags away from the rear wheel.

 

[Robert Holler]

Whatever you do, DONT add a "rear rack" to this bike with a lot of weight. It was not designed for that type of thing given the amount that the rear can flex - not only up and down a bit for the rear spring-arm, but side to side if it were to have a bunch of weight added to it. On those rear suspended models (Silvios/S30) there never were any actual mounts specifically designed for a rear rack nor did we make a specific rack.

Some people have added them, but I do not recommend it for the aforementioned reasons - in my own personal testing (S30) it added too much over-the-axle rear bias and also created a lot of twist potential in the rear end especially when loaded on one side. Its a big reason why that entire rear os gone now in favor of the rear of the S40 - which is rock solid for carrying weight.

Bags like the Radicals are best for sure.

 

[CruzinCambridge]

I've been able to get 30mm tires on my S30... and it looks like they'll even take 32s. I don't know if you can get 32s inside those caliper brakes... but you should be able to get 30s or at least 28s. Between that and converting to tubeless you'll get even more comfort.
Also wanted to note I've got a Scarab bag for sale over on marketplace if you're interested. I have an S30 I'm kitting out for randonneuring and looking to find a solo aero to pair with my double century hydration bags.

 

[chicorider]

You raise good points, Robert, and I do agree. Even though I have put a rack on my S30, I must admit that I have only used it for light commuting, with smaller size panniers. Also, at 5' 5" and 130 pounds, I have long been used to getting away with equipment choices that taller, heavier riders might not. I forget that, sometimes. If I were to do loaded touring with my S30, I would probably invest in a set of Radical bags--for the added room, if nothing else--and keep the rack in place, simply to help keep the bags clear of the rear wheel. (For a while I had both the S30 and S40. I appreciated the S40's utility, but decided having both bikes was too redundant. I kept the S30 because the S40 gave me terrible recumbutt, while the S30 never has. If Cruzbike ever put out a limited batch of S30s built like the S40, I bet they'd sell fast, and I'd probably buy one. It would be a dumb business move--a small bike company putting out an even smaller model run--but that final S30 model would have fans).

As for tires, I am currently running 30mm Schwalbe Pro Ones on my S30, and while they fit, it's tight--about 2mm clearance up front and 1mm in the back. I doubt 32s would fit. I will add, though, that moving up from 25mm Pro Ones has been excellent. Noticeably better ride quality, without a hit to speed and performance. I wouldn't use Pro One's for touring, but mention them here simply to say that I moved up in size while sticking to the same brand and model--an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[David Lalejini]

Whatever you do, DONT add a "rear rack" to this bike with a lot of weight. It was not designed for that type of thing given the amount that the rear can flex - not only up and down a bit for the rear spring-arm, but side to side if it were to have a bunch of weight added to it. On those rear suspended models (Silvios/S30) there never were any actual mounts specifically designed for a rear rack nor did we make a specific rack.

Some people have added them, but I do not recommend it for the aforementioned reasons - in my own personal testing (S30) it added too much over-the-axle rear bias and also created a lot of twist potential in the rear end especially when loaded on one side. Its a big reason why that entire rear os gone now in favor of the rear of the S40 - which is rock solid for carrying weight.

Bags like the Radicals are best for sure.

Thanks I've read other posts with similar advice about rear racks. I think the Radical Design Banana Racer bags should fit most of my gear, and I'll mount a small rack just to keep them from dragging on the rear wheel. I'll either get a scarab bag or sling pack for under the seat. I did buy the bike looking forward to setting it up!

 

[faiththompson]

If you don't want to buy bags, you can perform a quick overnighter with basic pieces of equipment. A comfortable daypack and dry bags should work, and little panniers should work if you're cycling on forest service roads. It's important to remember that bikepacking is about enjoying yourself on the trail, not carrying too much kit.
I have had a good experience with Maxfoot bikes in this sense for long tours, especially at night time.

 

[David Lalejini]

An update on my original post, I've added a lowrider lightweight rack (designed for an upright bike's front wheel) to the back, and a CruzBike scarab bag. This keeps the weight very low, but I know I still need to pack light, especially in the rear. I'm planning to try a touring / camping ride in the next couple months with it. The S40 is much better suited for touring, but I do prefer the lower seat angle. Maybe my next experiment will be trying racks on an older V20!

 

[CuHead]

... added a lowrider lightweight rack (designed for an upright bike's front wheel) to the back, and a CruzBike scarab bag...

Inspirational. I was planning on trying to add rack-style hardware below the seat between the wheels for a pair of small blue Tailwind panniers. Now I need to rethink.

 

[David Lalejini]

Inspirational. I was planning on trying to add rack-style hardware below the seat between the wheels for a pair of small blue Tailwind panniers. Now I need to rethink.

If you can mount an under seat rack for panniers that might better distribute the weight. The scarab bag isn’t really for heavy items.

The rack I have is a Blackburn FL-1 Lowrider. The lower mounting point attaches to the boss in the rear stay, the upper mount needs something like the Tubus Lowrider LM-1 Mounting Set Rack Adapter. I also used rubber with those rack adapters to avoid scratching the frame. I’ll start riding in another week fully loaded to see how it holds up.

 

[CuHead]

If you can mount an under seat rack for panniers that might better distribute the weight. The scarab bag isn’t really for heavy items.

The rack I have is a Blackburn FL-1 Lowrider. The lower mounting point attaches to the boss in the rear stay, the upper mount needs something like the Tubus Lowrider LM-1 Mounting Set Rack Adapter. I also used rubber with those rack adapters to avoid scratching the frame. I’ll start riding in another week fully loaded to see how it holds up.

An under seat rack with small panniers seems enough for me as a first choice, but I've got an old Blackburn low rider rack. Thank you for your clear description; I didn't even know I had that boss in the rear stay. Possibly intended as a fender mount. I look forward to your prep & trip posts.

 

[David Lalejini]

An under seat rack with small panniers seems enough for me as a first choice, but I've got an old Blackburn low rider rack. Thank you for your clear description; I didn't even know I had that boss in the rear stay. Possibly intended as a fender mount. I look forward to your prep & trip posts. View attachment 14725

Set up is working good after the first day on the Natchez Trace. Got up the 43 mph on a downhill with no stability issues. I tried to distribute the weight between all the bags with the heavier items very low in the Ortlieb panniers. No issues with the Radical Design banana racer bags hitting the tire.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

You raise good points, Robert, and I do agree. Even though I have put a rack on my S30, I must admit that I have only used it for light commuting, with smaller size panniers. Also, at 5' 5" and 130 pounds, I have long been used to getting away with equipment choices that taller, heavier riders might not. I forget that, sometimes. If I were to do loaded touring with my S30, I would probably invest in a set of Radical bags--for the added room, if nothing else--and keep the rack in place, simply to help keep the bags clear of the rear wheel. (For a while I had both the S30 and S40. I appreciated the S40's utility, but decided having both bikes was too redundant. I kept the S30 because the S40 gave me terrible recumbutt, while the S30 never has. If Cruzbike ever put out a limited batch of S30s built like the S40, I bet they'd sell fast, and I'd probably buy one. It would be a dumb business move--a small bike company putting out an even smaller model run--but that final S30 model would have fans).

As for tires, I am currently running 30mm Schwalbe Pro Ones on my S30, and while they fit, it's tight--about 2mm clearance up front and 1mm in the back. I doubt 32s would fit. I will add, though, that moving up from 25mm Pro Ones has been excellent. Noticeably better ride quality, without a hit to speed and performance. I wouldn't use Pro One's for touring, but mention them here simply to say that I moved up in size while sticking to the same brand and model--an apples-to-apples comparison.

I concur that If CruzBike designed an S40 with a lower seat angle (30 deg), I would buy one for touring. I toured 11K miles with an S40 last year and suffered every day with recumbutt. I'm done with the S40. I converted it to an ebike for short trips around town. I'm trying to convert my V20 for touring, but like the S30, it's not designed for it and if I add weight to the back, I get terrible sway and wobble. I put an S40 fork on it and now use 2" Schwalbe Mondale tires.

Rather than trying to use panniers, I'm going with a light weight trailer option (Free Parable T2). It only weighs 7.9lb (3.6kg) and can carry 66lbs (30kg), $400. You can pack the whole thing up into it's own bag and check it as luggage.

 

[CuHead]

Rather than trying to use panniers, I'm going with a light weight trailer option (Free Parable T2). It only weighs 7.9lb (3.6kg) and can carry 66lbs (30kg), $400. You can pack the whole thing up into it's own bag and check it as luggage.

I had bad luck with a single wheel Burly COHO XC trailer. I used a mountain bike and made quite a few rides for groceries. I think the spec sheet said max 70lb, and I don't think I topped that. The torque on the bike's axle transferred to the rim and caused rim failure at multiple spoke holes. The first rim that I destroyed I chalked up to it being 20 years old and high mileage, but the new replacement only lasted another six months and failed the same way. I'd recommend a two wheeled trailer in order to eliminate torque between the bike's rear axle and the ground.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

No can do on the two wheeled trailer. Too heavy and too wide. I have two single wheel trailers and have not seen any rim issues with them. Double walled, 36 spoke rims can hold a huge capacity. I can't explain your experience, but there are many examples of people doing long tours with single wheeled trailers. Here's one:

18 solid reasons to bike tour with a trailer - Safari Arie

There are many very good reasons to pull a bike trailer while on bike tour. In this post we will explore 18 reasons why you should.

safariarie.ca

One of the advantages of a trailer is it takes weight off the bike and puts half of it on the trailer wheel. My fully loaded trailer weight is no more than my fully loaded panniers. The panniers weight is spread across both wheels, but so is the trailer weight. I don't see the difference. I finished an 11K mile tour last year (on my S40) carrying about 70 lbs of gear in 4 panniers and my body weight was about 220 lbs. I had no rim issues, nor any other structural issues.

 

[CuHead]

I commuted to work with either front or rear panniers for decades, plus some rail trail & C&O canal trail bike camping trips, never had a wheel failure. The single wheel trailer is fun as it follows inline. Both broken rims were Mavic 32h, the last one had nipple grommets. I'd sort of like to try mag wheels and keep using the trailer. 11K miles, but was it flats or hills? Just kidding, it's more than I pedal all year.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

More hills than you'd think going around the US perimeter. The flattest section was Florida. The mid-west wasn't bad. The north-east and west coasts were brutal. I was riding heavy, so that didn't help. If you're curious, here's a link to my blog. I posted daily:

2021 Tour around the USA perimeter, by billweberx

Includes the Adventure Cycling routes Southern Tier, East Coast, Northern Tier, West Coast, Rocky Mountains, Sierra Nevada and Cascade mountains

www.crazyguyonabike.com