Silvio 2.0 and 27 Degree Seat Angle

[thebean]

I have put my seat to 30 degrees on my Ti Aero. Two rides and it is bothering my neck. When I heard the news today that the seat angle on the new Silvio is 27 degrees, I honestly wanted to cry! Those of us with herniated discs in our neck know all too well that an upright position fairs better with us.

I have to say I am surprised. The one feature with the current Silvio that stands out to me, is that it is a bike for the recreational rider or the racer. The new 2.0 seems to be geared towards racers or fast riders only.

Well, I will jealously watch others get the Silvio 2.0!!

 

[bentrider1a]

seat angle on silvio

Lisa,

Before I write off the 2.0 ver, I will try to get close up pics of the frame and seat back(from John or Doug) to try to change the angle! Maybe something like a big rubber spacer will work or ?, Just don't know yet!

The arthritis in my neck will not allow a seat angle of less than 33*-37*. also the more you lay the seat back, the harder it will be to get more than your toes on the ground at stops /etc. without having to sit up.

 

[Eric Winn]

Same HF main tube as the

Same HF main tube as the Vendetta but with less recline due to how the headset and seat stays are welded on. Seat pans are attached to the frame with velcro which so far is working really well while riding.

Same headrest now on the new Silvio as on the new Vendetta.

Vendetta is very comfy at 20 degrees or whaever it is. With Silvio at 27 degrees the headrest may make it work for you or perhaps just adding som more closed cell padding.

The seat for the Vendetta and now also the Silvio since they share the same HF frame are shaped differently from the other Cruzbikes. The seatback is taller and the seat base is shorter.

As far as getting your feet on the ground at stops fully reclined - I am about 5'-6" with a 29" inseam and BOTH feet are flat on the ground. This could be a negative because stopped in this position is really comfy - I could see wanting to doze off on a long rando or ultra if I stayed stopped like this too long











-Eric

 

[WhiteSilvio]

Altering the Seat Angle

Since there are people who would like a different seat angle, it occurs to me that it would not be a major stretch to make some sort of light wedge shaped frame to go between the rising frame at the back and the back of the seat.

Since the seat is now supplied in two pieces it shouldn't be hard to do this and make the seat angle say 35 to 38degs as seems to be being requested.

This wedge could be bolted to the spine frame and probably use the same Velcro system to attach the seat back, to the wedge, as per the standard seat attachment.

This could be applicable to both the new Silvio and Vendetta models for people who want to modify the seat angle for their own reasons.

The wedge could be painted up to match the bike. A space for some branding?
Just a thought.

John

 

[Eric Winn]

Reclined on my Vendetta

Silvio will be more upright than this but I think Lisa and I are somewhere near the same height and xseam.

This is also posted toward the end of my Vendetta 2.0 unboxing and build thread.



Here is my skinny son, he and I are about the same height


-Eric

 

[Charles.Plager]

Hi Lisa and everbody,
John

Hi Lisa and everbody,

John wrote:

Since there are people who would like a different seat angle, it occurs to me that it would not be a major stretch to make some sort of light wedge shaped frame to go between the rising frame at the back and the back of the seat.

Since the seat is now supplied in two pieces it shouldn't be hard to do this and make the seat angle say 35 to 38degs as seems to be being requested.

This wedge could be bolted to the spine frame and probably use the same Velcro system to attach the seat back, to the wedge, as per the standard seat attachment.

This could be applicable to both the new Silvio and Vendetta models for people who want to modify the seat angle for their own reasons.

The wedge could be painted up to match the bike. A space for some branding?
Just a thought.

I had the same type of idea. It's hard to lower the seat angle on a fixed frame, but it shouldn't be too hard to raise it. I would think there are ways to raise the angle both below and above the seat pan. Hopefully there will be some official prescription for dong this.

I personally thought the seat angle on the 1.X Silvio was too high, but that was only my opinion on what I thought would work for me. I completely understand that what works for anybody else may be very different..

Cheers,
Charles

 

[thebean]

What I love about this forum

What I love about this forum is the out of box thinking, and the fact that one know ps that the Cruzbike team is reading this and hopefully will explore WhiteSilvios idea. Crossing my fingers...

 

[romelman]

Headrest angle

How would you change the headrest angle to match the seat angle change as it seems the angle is also fixed?

 

[unc99]

My speculation would be that

My speculation would be that they lowered the seat angle to better appeal to the road bike crowd and those that want to use the bike for club rides, century rides, randos, maybe even ultra races, etc. It also provides a middle point between the pure performance oriented Vendetta and the comfort/recreational oriented Sofrider. I'm excited about it, but certainly understand everyone has different preferences and needs on seat angle. Hopefully, the ideas of extra washers and/or additional padding will help those who want a more upright ride.

 

[Doug Burton]

Doing these modifcations is usually my role...

...And when I get a Silvio 2.0 it's probably one of the first things I'll start on, that and developing a parts kit for disc brakes.

I was sorry to see my 1.5 go; it was a prototype for "short people" frame and front triangle changes, which were incorporated into the second production run. But I can't tie up all the company's capital in bikes in my workshop...

I , too was fond of the Silvio 1.5 seating configuration, but I also have built conversion kit bikes with low seat angles (ironically in the same angle range that John has adopted for Silvio 2.0) These were exceptionally comfortable bikes for very long rides; I'm no racer, my aim is to average 14mph indefinately for any given ride. The key is to have the upper shoulders supported properly, which gets the neck supported right as well. John has incorporated all these considerations in the seat and headrest design for the Silvio 2.0.

So if i'm going to work out a seatback adjustment mechanism, what angle range are folks looking for?

Cheers,

Doug

 

[thebean]

Doug, 
I would guess that a

Doug,

I would guess that a good seat angle might be around 38 degrees. I agree that the seat angle on the v1.0 is just a bit too upright.

Eric, you being able to fit your Vendetta to our similar x seams is great news. I know who to have Vite Bikes call! Now just the question of whether or not there will be different sized Silvio frames.

 

[bentrider1a]

Silvio seat angle

Hi Doug,

I have to agree with Lisa on the seat angle(about 38*)! Also the need to make sure that the 2.0 ver will handle triple chainrings in the front with a short x-seam rider.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Ivan]

Lisa, your Bachetta Ti

Lisa, your Bachetta Ti doesn't have a headrest right? The headrest would support mucho of the heads weight and take strain off the neck. I would think this would make a big difference though I know it's a risk for you to buy and you wouldn't know for sure.

For me, the 27 deg seat is perfect and I am very excited about it. I want something that will be a lost faster than my DF bike not just more comfortable. I was looking for something just slightly more upright than Vendetta for urban traffic. Thiugh not for me, I think an insert to increase seat angle would be a wonderful addition just like the chainstay extension, allowing a person to tweak BB height, handlebar position and seat angle. Alternatively, could a small increase in seat angle be achieved more simply with a different cushion that is wedge shaped? I would assume the headrest would need to be modified too, or the seat raised so much that it is not needed at all.

 

[ak-tux]

First, I must say that

First, I must say that personally, I love the new Silvio 2.0 and the new seat angle appeals to me. If I had the funds, this would be the bike for me.

That said, I want to re-assure Lisa and others that, as Charles Plager put it, generally, it is easier to raise a seat angle than to lower it on a fixed angle frame like that of the silvio. So the new Silvio will serve a wider range of potential customers: The road bike racer crowd and the "around town" folks. But there is also a niche that only the softrider will fill. Please note that the softrider can also be fitted with 700c wheels. Search in this forum for some stunning examples.

I follow the french recumbent forums (albeit using google translate ;-) ) and the general impression I get is that they prefer the Vendetta to the Silvio and one of the main reasons seems to be that the silvio was not reclined enough. The french are very attached to their 55-60 deg head angle design and can be very critical of the cruzbike 70 deg head angle but generally some seem to really like the Vendetta.

John and the Cruzbike team does alot of ergonomic research before they release a model. They use human modelling technology to fit a range of heights, Xseams e.t.c. using statistics gathered across human populations. Generally a seat angle lower than 45 deg will require a headrest if one is going to ride for long hours. Hence the reason the version 1 and 1.5 of silvio did not include a headrest.


The best way is to first try the new design before writing off. You may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Ivan]

Yup, I just placed an order

Yup, I just placed an order for the Silvio 2.0 (estimated shipping out of Taiwan in 3-4 weeks according to my conversation with Maria on the phone). It's a lot of money, but it's a graduation present for myself with wife's permission! <grin> Since I like to go fast on my road bike, I also wanted something lower than 45 deg for the seat. I tried a 45 deg Bachetta which was comfortable on my first ride, and knew that once I became skilled at riding, I would want something more reclined but that I can occasionally navigate in city traffic.

+1 on the human factor design. I used to do anthropometry (the human sizing measurements for ergonomic fit) research in my previous life, so really appreciate that a company spends the money on it so as to maximize the chance for fitting the most people. I am 5'7.5" with a 39.5" x-seam and plan to use the 100mm chainstay extension. Though not necessary for fit, I want my feet higher similar to a position on a medium sized Vendetta.

 

[Romagjack]

In trying to get a feel for

In trying to get a feel for the new Silvio seat angle, I lowered my Quest2 seat angle to 30 degrees and used a headrest for my last two 15 mile rides on my flat road / bike path circuit. While quite comfortable on long stretches of smooth roadway and no neck issues with the headrest (I had cervical spinal fusion last year and have always had problems with neck pain). But, athis angle, I found the Quest less maneuverable in stop and go traffic. I needed to unclip and sit up when approaching stop signs and didn't feel as aware of my surroundings at 30 degrees. The Silvio2 is designed for a low seat angle but like a few others on this thread, I would want the ability to raise the angle to 38 degrees. Eric's idea of a piano hinged seat seems to make sense for a variable seat angle. That way, you could recline the seat for the long country rides and elevate the angle for maneuverability in more congested areas.

John and Doug did a wonderful job setting up the Quest with an adjustable seat angle, disc brakes, and IGH. I'm hoping that some day down the road, a similar package can be implemented for the Silvio2.

 

[Eric Winn]

Visibility from the cockpit

Visibility from the cockpit so-to-speak is much better for the Silvio and Vendetta than the Quest with the Quest seatback reclined way back.

What I'm generally finding on my Vendetta is that unless I'm at a weird angle to traffic I just raise my head a little off the headrest and I'm fine. This is probably more related to my bifocals than anything else. I'll check to see how it goes with my contacts.

If I'm at an odd angle and can't turn my head far enough and/or use my mirrors to see then I'll pull myself forward while I'm starting back up but then drop back fully reclined once I'm going.

Of course the 2 Zefal Spy mirrors I use help a lot for situational awareness too.

I generally unclip both feet when I'm coming to a stop anyway whether it be a stop sign or other reason to stop. I don't like leaving one foot clipped in unless I plan to pay close attention to my balance and nearby environment. After a wind gust or just plain klutziness sort of pushed me toward the clipped in foot and I had to disengage quickly, I've just made it a habit to unclip both feet.

One thing that is kind of weird, in a good way, is even when I ride with my head off the headrest slightly my neck doesn't seem to get as tired as I expect it too. I think this is because I only have my big old melon of a head lifted off the headrest but the tops of my shoulders and the base of my neck are still supported somewhat by the combination of seat and headrest.

Compare the two side views between the Quest and the Vendetta below. Now granted, I don't have a headrest for the Quest but this is how I had the Quest setup for riding. The recline is somewhere around 37 to 40 degrees or so. On my century ride at Bike Sebring in Feb my neck got a little bit tired but it was pretty mild and my neck didn't feel uncomfortable or sore at the end of the century (or later).




I haven't ridden the Vendetta at it's 20 degree angle for more than 22 miles at a time (yet!) but I've ridden some distance just holding my head barely off the headrest and it doesn't feel like it takes as much effort as holding my head at the angle on the Quest in the photo above.


-Eric

 

[COBRA GT]

Silvio 1.0 / Seat angle

Seat angle is perfect for the type of riding I do. I ride with alot of D.F. riders in pace lines. They are able to get a draft off the Silvio.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Romajack wrote:
In trying to

Romajack wrote:

In trying to get a feel for the new Silvio seat angle, I lowered my Quest2 seat angle to 30 degrees and used a headrest for my last two 15 mile rides on my flat road / bike path circuit. While quite comfortable on long stretches of smooth roadway and no neck issues with the headrest (I had cervical spinal fusion last year and have always had problems with neck pain). But, athis angle, I found the Quest less maneuverable in stop and go traffic. I needed to unclip and sit up when approaching stop signs and didn't feel as aware of my surroundings at 30 degrees.

My Cruizgami Mantis has a much lower angle than that of my Sofrider. When I approach corners, I sit up straight so I can see better (I never felt the need to do this much on my Sofrider). I can ride comfortably like this for quite a while (although I find that my braking suffers as I have moved a lot of weight off of my rear wheel). For me, I'd prefer the lower seat angle and just use sitting up when situations call for it.

 

[thebean]

I am quite different Charles.

I am quite different Charles. Once comfortably planted in my seat, I don't like to sit up at all, even at stops. My measure of a bike fitting me properly is if I can be completely flat footed at stops IN the reclined/seated position.

I have to admit, I have not had the chance to ever use a headrest. Again, there is so much wisdom in Johns design that I suspect at 27 degrees, the bike is very comfortable. But my multiple experiments on my Ti Aero, shifting the seat to a more upright to more reclined position, suggest that it climbs significantly better in a more upright position.

I am chomping at the bit to put my order in with Vite Bikes but am waiting to hear more in regards to adding spacers.