Silvio 2.0 and 27 Degree Seat Angle

[ak-tux]

I agree with you Charles.

I agree with you Charles. Clearly the Silvio-20 is essentially a " suspended Vendetta " albeit slightly more upright. It has it's niche and I think it will really sell. I personally love what I have seen so far in this forum as the Silvio-2.0 owners have shared their build photos. If I had the money, the Silvio-2.0 is the bike for me.

But this is a production bicycle, not a custom made one. Therefore production is targeting a certain statistical distribution of the users. If John and the rest of the Cruzbike company can justify a business case for another production of "Silvio Classic" edition then probably we may end up with two versions of Silvio.

For now, lets wait and see what Doug Burton comes up with for seat angle modifications.

 

[Charles.Plager]

With all due respect to all

With all due respect to all those that have neck problems and want to modify the Silvio-2.0 seat angle, if you find the Vendetta and the Silvio-2.0 seat angles too extreme why not opt for a Softrider with 700c wheels or even a Quest?

Alternatively buy a used Silvio 1.5 from some of the current owners who will want to upgrade to the Silvio-2.0.

The difference between the 1.5 and the 2.0 seat angle is quite large. I can very easily imagine thinking that the Silvio 1.5 is way too upright and the 2.0 is too laid back. The suspension on the Silvio is quite a bit nicer than what you get on either the Quest or the Sofrider.

Edit: It really is too bad (in my opinion) that they removed the bolt holes for the production Silvio. Even if not raising the seat, I can see how somebody would want to make sure the seat is firmly attached. If only we could get those put back on...

 

[Ivan]

PRC: That's a great idea. The

PRC: That's a great idea. The Silvio 2.0 does have at least 2 mount points. The first at the seat base are the bolt holes for the seat. The other, halfway up the seat, is the threaded hole for the rear suspension. Currently there is a metal disc there that screws up/down to adjust suspension. Once that disc is a quarter way down, there would be sufficient threads to mount a very stable seat bracket... especially given the size of that suspension hole!!

 

[BentBierz]

All good points made about

All good points made about custom vs. production building. I do not think I am that far out from being able to work with the new Silvio...won't really know until I try it. That said, for want of 5-7 degrees, give or take, there may be a fair number of people who are going to decide to take a pass.

As far as a Silvio 1.5...as mentioned above, the seat angle is too much the other direction plus I love the fact that disc brake tabs were added to the 2.0.

 

[Nanda Holz]

Quest angle adjustment on a Silvio

I was assembling a "Q559" 3.0 last night, and while installing the seat I wondered why the simple 3 hole strut at the top of the seat could not work on the Silvio 2.0? I'll start assembling our first Silvio 2.0 shortly and will look more closely at this option. If there are no seat bolts like on the prototype, then finding another hard point might be tricky. My other thoughts were a simple structural foam wedge that followed the contours of the frame and seat back, maybe even wood to test out the other issues that will arise...like the gap that would be created with the head rest without adding more cushioning.

 

[Doug Burton]

Quest seatpost

One of my seat angle adjustment concepts involves using the upper section of a Quest 3.0 seatpost inserted where the headrest goes in the standard bike.

This requires the seat back to be reinforced, probably a piano hinge to be added to the seatback/seatbase interface and the headrest re-configured to work with the Quest upper seatpost crosstube.

The headrest can probably be cut and welded to the two extension tubes that are provided to allow the Quest to be ridden without the included folding rack. A quick release would be used instead of the screws normally used. The seatpost crosstube needs to be through-drilled to accept the quick release, and a set of friction washers or star washers are needed to get the headrest to lock into place and not migrate.

A securing method is needed to locate the seatpost in the hydroform tube.

 

[thebean]

Doug,
Any

Doug,

Any updates?

Thanks!

Lisa

 

[MrSteve]

Nanda Holz' Proposed Seat Mods

My seats never stay stock for long.

You guys have workable ideas, incorporating piano hinges, beefier layups in stock seat pans,
welded-up seat tube mounts, bolts, crosstubes and so on.

All that stuff will work and work well.
I can see that it will.

Here's Mr. Holz's idea, the way I see it....

High density, closed cell foam, cut to shape;
-the outline cut to match the outline of the stock seat pan and,
-the recline or, tapered wedge shape, cut to the desired shape.

Then, the new seat pad can be covered and secured to the stock
seat pan with velcro... just exactly in the same way that the stock
seat pad and cover are installed onto the seat pan.

The stock seat pad(s) could either be installed on top of the new wedge(s)
of high density foam or, the new wedge(s) would replace the stock
seat pad(s).

Here's why I know that this will work....

I used to paddle a lot in my homebuilt kayaks.
In fact, I used to commute to work, paddling my boats.
On the weekends, I'd paddle my kayaks for fun.
That's a lot of sitting!

The point:
I carved my own high density, closed cell foam seats.
They held up for years.
Years!
They still work....
Anyway, they are very supportive, don't absorb water, are easy to keep clean and
stay where you put them -when velcroed.
And they are light.
Light weight and no moving parts to wear or make noise.

You can see how simple this is, right?
But, how about the head rest?
I knew you'd be thinking that.
Add thickness to the stock head rest, with carved closed cell foam...
this will easily compensate for any changes made in the seating position.
This foam is light, aerodynamic, and can be carved to fit anyone.
My preference in headrest material is to use an air cushion
and that would be easy to mount.

There is a downside, of course there is.
High density closed cell foam is very expensive.

Which is why I buy inexpensive closed-cell foam camping mats!
I glued the layers of foam together with rubber cement and carved/sculpted/sanded my seats to shape.

Mr. Tolhurst could come up with a line of accessory wedge-back pads and their accompanying
headrest pads....
With Velcro attachment, they'd take only seconds to install, with no tools.

-Steve

 

[1happyreader]

opportunity

Wanted an experienced seat carver from East TN to be paid to make custom seat pads part time.

 

[noahvale]

I really think that anyone

I really think that anyone thinking that the seat angle will not work for them needs to try the 2.0 before investing time and money into seat modifications.

It took me a lot of time to get my seat right on my Bacchetta Corsa. First I had a Euro-mesh, then I got a Poweron Cycling fiberglass seat. With the POC I installed a headrest, first a homemade one, then the AeroDon headrest.
I was very happy to find that my new Silvio 2.0 has the exact same recline as my Corsa. I find that the Silvio headrest is way more comfortable than the ADEM headset.
The headrest doesn't just support your head, it is part of the seat and improves stability greatly. I do not feel as in control if I raise my head off the headrest.

I had 5/6 cervical fusion in '94. My neck is messed up, it gives me problems all the time. I have significant nerve damage in my right arm. One whole muscle group is gone and the tip of my thumb and forefinger are numb. My neurosurgeon told me I have lost 40% of the strength in my right arm. If I look down at a desk for more than a few minutes, I get extreme pain and the hand numbness gets worse. I can't sit in a chair and look down at a book, the book has to be directly in front of me. I have modified all my activities because of this, my computer monitor is on a riser. I hold my KIndle up in front of me to read. I have to be careful of the position of my head when I sleep or I will wake up with horrible headaches.

All of that is a drag, but I deal with it. When I ride my Silvio 2.0 hard for over an hour without stopping I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO NECK PROBLEMS!!

IMHO, YMMV, and any other acronyms apply...

 

[Rampa]

How about expandable PVC plugs in those 5 holes?

I think I would be inclined to find some threaded PVC fittings that would lock into the big cutouts in the seat mount part of the frame. With a threaded plug on the top (attached to seat) and bottom (attached in cutout) and a section of internally threaded pipe between the two, it (they) could work like a short, fat, hollow turnbuckle. Then you would just twist a couple fat tubes under your seat to raise or lower it.

I think it would be quite strong enough, provide a lot of adjustability, be aesthetically minimalistic and pleasing, and possibly provide a little storage space (secret compartments, tee-hee).

For the headrest, a couple extra bends on the long part would bring it forward. I would practice on metal electrical conduit with a tubing bender from the hardware store.

I think this solution is entirely "off the shelf" and would be fairly inexpensive.

 

[Jerrye]

Rampa, your idea has merit...

except, a turnbuckle has one screw threaded right and one threaded left. I don't know of any off the shelf PVC or other pipe that is threaded left. I sure don't know of any unions threaded both ways.

The turnbuckle idea is a good one.

 

[noahvale]

Most recumbent seats have

Most recumbent seats have structural ribs so that they can be mounted only at the front and back, usually with a front frame mount and two struts in the rear. The Silvio 2.0 seat is just a few of layers of fiberglass with a carbon fiber overlay. It has little structural strength as it is designed to the mounted directly to the frame which supports it. Using a single point support is not going to work, it would flex a lot and possibly break. Whatever you did would require complete support all the way under the seat on both sides.

 

[John Tolhurst]

layers

What I'm considering is to have sheets of 1/4 inch closed cell foam cut to shape, and then sell them in packs of 10.

Then you build a new shape into the seat cushion by cutting and terracing the layers. This means that people with particular needs for added lumbar support, or who have more curvature of the upper spine, can make those adjustments.

Also under consideration is an inflatable air cushion, with four compartments on the seat back. These then allow you to over inflate the upper compartments a little and under inflate the lower ones.

The seat cushion cover has a vertical split. This may need to be extended up and down, so the cover can smoothly accommodate the added bulk. And then it can be shoe-laced together on the underside.

Does that make sense?

 

[Eric Winn]

John, sounds tricky to do and

John, sounds tricky to do and get good results with the cushion cover. The terraced sheets of foam sounds simple and effective but how do you avoid a baggy cover or too tight a cover or a cover with bunched corners, etc?

The first thing that popped in my head was a seat cover that includes a zippered expansion flap around the edges like various luggage bags, bike trunks, etc. but the more I think about it the more blech I think it would look with all of the problems above. Unless you can find some kind of uber zen origami master to design something...

A really stretchy material would likely let stuff bulge and shift around.

Maybe make the cover like a sail with full length batten pockets but instead of battens you could insert various combinations of foam sheets sized to fit the pockets. Use velcro closure for the pocket flaps?

Keep the existing cushion and cover but figure out how to fasten your terraced foam sheets together and sandwhich this "assembly" between the existing cushion and seat pan?

-Eric

 

[MrSteve]

K.I.S.S.

Keep it simple, stupid.

That's what I say to myself... please do not take it personally!

Offering packs of 1/4" closed-cell foam, cut to shape, is an elegant solution, for the do-it-yourself enthusiast.
What the consumer would do with the foam is craft a wedge to fit, finagle it into the stock cover
and ride happily away... assuming that the consumer can do basic upholstery and also thinks to re-do the head rest, if needed.
If the customer is not a do-it-yourself enthusiast, then the customer must find a local craftsman to help out with the new seat.

Offering a range of factory-custom, wedged-shaped, covered seats and headrest pads to customers would also work.
You know, to swap out with the stock pads, for customers with neither time nor upholstery skill.

Now, as for keeping it simple?
I'd glue up the seat from the sheets first, then sculpt the built-up foam blank.
A one-piece seat will always be more stable than a seat made up of a bunch of loose sheets,
stuffed into a cover... even though the proper foam is stiff and the sheets are snugly
held in place by the cover.
In other words, a seat made of a few parts is more stable, more dependable, than is a seat made of many parts.

What would I do?
I'd build my own seat, like I have always ended up doing.
My seat would be stupid-simple, one-piece....
And it would only fit me, having been fitted by me, for me.

-Steve

 

[John Tolhurst]

Yes Steve, 
we dont have a

Yes Steve,
we dont have a lot of data that would allow us to know what shape adaptations are needed.

Easier than glue might be to piece and put a very small cable tie around the stack in a couple of places. Its just needed till the cushion cover is on, then compression means the pieces won't slide around.

 

[Colin Croft]

Any updates/efforts at Silvio 2.0 seat angle modification


A main concern I have about taking the plunge into a Silvio 2.0 (rather than say a 'Turbo Quest') is that 27deg seat angle. I've not been able to ride any kind of cruzbike to compare, but on my ICE Sprint 26 trike I ride at about 40-45deg which is good for me as far as taking in the landscape views and traffic visibility. I'm concerned about 27deg being too 'laid back'. Being able to add even another 10deg or so would make a big difference...

Has anyone done any experimenting on this?

 

[Ivan]

If it's landscape views and

If it's landscape views and traffic visibility you are worried about, I don't think you will have a problem with SIlvio 2.0 for two reasons. First, while the seat is 27 deg, the head is held up more vertically due to the headrest. Not only do I not have a problem seeing the landscape, I can also see the ground just in front of my wheel. Second, the height of your head is high enough to see over the bonnets of cars. My head is at a similar height to someone in a sports car. So traffic visibility is not an issue.

The traffic visibility concern was one reason I chose Silvio over Vendetta, but having experienced the excellent visibility of Silvio, I now would not hesitate with the slightly lower Vendetta.

 

[Eric Winn]

Vendetta view at 20 degrees

This is my view from my Vendetta:





-Eric