Silvio 2.0 Build Questions

[Eric Winn]

Rival GXP bearing cup torque

Rival GXP bearing cup torque requirement is 34-41 Nm (301-363 in-lbs) which really isn't much more than snugging it down. If you have really cranked it down it is probably way over-torqued.

I have tightened down the bottom bracket good and tight.

In some ways it is similar to a headset in that you are just eliminating any play...

-Eric

 

[Ivan]

The headset analogy makes

The headset analogy makes sense. I have tightened it MUCH more than a headset. Some online guides say you can't over tighten a BB in a way that compresses the bearings, but I am not sure what is right. Thanks for the input and any future ones that come. I have a road crank and don't have/need spacers. I will check BB width, paint and face if necessary (don't think there was paint on the BB shell), and decrease torque on the BB cups after I get back from my trip.

My elastomer behaves the same way that Jeremy's does but I am not concerned about it now as we haven't even ridden it yet. I imagine with a load on the bike, the elastomer my push back onto the disc. If it doesn't, a squirt of windex would help it move along. I have a similar elastomer on my Brompton and am looking forward to using it as I know how effective that little thing is to smooth out a road.

 

[Jeremy S]

Ivan, Doug just told me the

Ivan, Doug just told me the same thing, the suspension pieces should come together with weight on the bike.

 

[Doug Burton]

External Bearing BBs

The bearings should be "fairly tight" in the BB shell. If you tighten them too much, after riding a short distance they

WILL NOT COME OUT EVER AGAIN.

This is a BAD THING. The bearings are reverse thread on one side so that the motion of the crank tightens them as you ride. I fyou're lucky, you'll be able to get them out by heating the bejesus out of the bottom bracket shell with a heat gun. On the other hand, I've seen some that just weld themselves in place after being over-tightened.

Snug them up with the BB wrench "arm strength tight".

Then insert the crank axle, then push the opposite side crank arm on hand tight. Now use the plastic threaded cap to pull the non-drive side crank arm down on the crank axle. If you feel like you're stripping the plastic, you're way too tight. This just takes up the slack like a headset cap screw.

Spin the cranks to make sure they're free. A new external bearing BB may not seem to run as free as a square taper bottom bracket because of the tight rubber seals on the bearings. This will improve over time.

Now tighten the two cap screws on the non-drive-side crank arm to lock it down.

There are very few, if any, parts on a modern bike drivetrain that require extreme tightening. You can only break, strip or sieze things if you apply too much pressure. The one possible exception is tightening pedals on the crank arm. That should be done with a proper pedal wrench and arm strength.

 

[iow]

doug, i think the fitting

doug, i think the fitting procedure you describe is for shimano cranks - the latest sram force cranks do not allow the mechanic to adjust the side loading in such a manner.

ivan, my frame arrived yesterday. as you say, there is no thick paint in this area, according to my verniers mine is pretty much bang on 68mm - worth checking your's though?

 

[iow]

first snag

just started to build up my frame kit and hit my first snag!

how do the boom sliders clamp together? there is no slit in the larger tube for it to close up on the smaller one. see photos below (eric winn, hope you don't mind, i used one of your photos) - you can see the vendetta has a slit but not the silvio. there is a small shoulder on the clamp but its not deep enough to grip the smaller tube and is only about 1mm wide.

on a separate note, i was suprised at just how light the frame is - the main frame alone (excl. rear triangle) is just 3lbs.

 

[BentBierz]

Ivan said:
Progress this far,

Ivan said:

Progress this far, showing my approx riding position for me at 1.75m. I am pleased with the 100mm chainstay extension resulting in a Vendetta-like angle if the boom. This was something I was going for.
I'm curious how much the 100 mm extension raised the vertical height of the BB.

 

[Andrew 1973]

did you chase and face the BB?

I might be old-fashioned, but I believe the practice of chasing the threads and facing the BB should be part of any new bicycle build. It is especially important that the opposing BB shells are perfectly parallel.

 

[Andrew 1973]

edit

Not BB shells, I meant BB faces.

 

[Doug Burton]

Front Derailleur Cable Routing

These photos are of an SV1.5, but other than how the ring clamps interact with the BB (they clamp to the BB bearings instead of the BB shell) the arrangement should be essentially identical.

I used the teflon inner lining from a Nokon cable set to guide the cable, but you can use brake or derailleur cable housing if you prefer. Some folks have had difficulty getting standard derailleur housing to bend sufficiently to achieve the required contour:

 

[Eric Winn]

Vendetta FD routing

I added photos to my build thread of the Vendetta 2.0 FD cable routing in case you would like to compare.

My Vendetta frameset came with the FD cable guide that goes around the BB.

-Eric

 

[iow]

progress so far

progress so far.
the clearance for the inner of the ultegra triple rings is very tight.
all holes lined up and all threads good.
only had to get the dremel out to mod' the inner ring and take a mil' off the mech hanger to clear the b screw plate.

 

[Eric Winn]

Lavs, on my Vendetta the RD

Lavs, on my Vendetta the RD hanger rests on a shoulder of the RD and does not interfere with the adjuster screw and tab:

When I attempted to install the Shimano Ultegra "rear" derailleur (triple) I found that its "B tension adjustment screw" and its housing/bracket overlapped with the Cruzbike dropout tab, i.e. it would not thread in/install. Picture with the 2nd dropout tab below.

alt="Lavs RD and hanger"

It is difficult to get a good picture but here you go. The mostly flat side of the RD hanger goes against the RD:

Top view:
alt="Top view"

Bottom view. I should have annotated this image. I'll try to update it later but you can see there is a black shoulder sticking out from my RD that is resting against that angled lip of the RD hanger. The set screw and tab is beyond this RD lip and RD shoulder joint and clears it. You can see the clearance better in the top view photo above.
alt="bottom view"

-Eric

 

[Doug Burton]

Re: Progress so far: IOW

IOW,

I am amazed (and pleased) that you were able to get this to work.

Tell me about the crankset you are using.

Looks like a standard triple with the outer ring not yet installed and a small granny ring.

We recommend that the only triple that will work on Silvio V2.0 is an Ultegra with a 92mm inner bolt circle diameter (BCD) because it clears the pinch bolt clamp boss on the drive side of the BB, if you grind off the anti-chain-suck tabs on the granny ring. A typical crank with a 74mm inner BCD should not work because of interference with the ring clamp pinch bolt boss.

Looks like you have installed a crankset with a 74mm inner BCD.

Inquiring minds want the details - this could be an important discovery for all of us.

Cheers,

Doug

 

[iow]

74 bcd inner chainring

doug, new post started...

 

[Drew]

Sea Fit

I'm having a problem getting the seat to fit properly. When I align the seat holes withe the holes on the frame tabs the gap between the seat and the tabs is 1cm. I used the Dremel to grind excess material from the underside of the seat which got the gap down to 5mm but the front edge of the seat is rubbing the frame.

Doug - Would you recommend more grinding or using rubber washers between the tab and the seat pan? I want to ensure I don't create any stress cracking on the seat. Im also nervous about grinding out too much of the seat and weakening it.

 

[Eric Winn]

Drew, are the bolts in the

Drew, are the bolts in the seat joint installed and tight? If so, try loosening them a bit. When I had them snugged down, the seat curvature did not match the frame curvature. Leaving them loose allowed the seat top and bottom to conform to the frame shape better.

I don't think you can avoid the front seat edge rubbing the frame without adding spacers to lift it up above the mount points you show in your photo. I suspect trying spacers would make the seat fit even more fiddly but I could be wrong.

I originally put a piece of felt there with an adhesive back but it tended to wiggle around. I replaced it with a little rectangle of closed cell foam which seems to be staying in place.


-Eric

 

[Doug Burton]

Rubber insulating washers are a good idea

I, too, like to avoid grinding on stuff.

A rubber washer on both sides of the seat surface (this can be as simple as a piece cut from an inner tube) will reduce stress on the seat and help avoid cracking over time.

When I bolted Maria's Vendetta seat in place, my wife had to hold the seat firmly in position while I drilled pilot holes. Once I was able to start the screws through the seat, everything pulled down pretty nicely. I only used 3 screws; one at the top of the backrest and one on each wing on the lower pan.

Eric's approach with the foam will keep the seat from abrading the frame. A short piece of adhesive velcro will do it as well.

Cheers,

Doug

 

[Drew]

The first attempt at spacers

The first attempt at spacers worked well but I need to refine it so there is support from bolt to bolt. This will hopefully avoid point loading where it attaches ti the frame.

Eric, I appreciate the suggestion but I was fitting the seat first, then attaching the back before bolting the two pieces together. I used some helmet foam pads where the seat pan contacts the frame.

Overall I'm very pleased with the fit and finish of the frame. I still love my Silvio 1.0 but the refinements in the 2.0 are outstanding. Kudos to JT for the lovely artistic engineering.

 

[Lavs]

Hanger Dropout and Slider Slot "Adjustments"

I had to machine off some of the hanger dropout in order to get the Shimano RD "B tension adjustment screw" and its housing/bracket to fit. It was not hard to do,... I clamped it to my bench, used an angle grinder (gently) and cleaned it up with a hand file. This was necessary for my build. I'm using a Shimano Ultegra Triple. On my DF bikes I ride 33-28 (gearing) on our local 9.8 mile climb to average 10-11mph at 80+rpm, which requires ~325 Normalized-watts. So I thought I might want some more gears with this build.

Also, for IOW "First Snag" Slider Slot - I awoke this morning ready to finish up a few things then do my maiden shake-down voyage,... but had an email from John T. Relating to the Slider not having the necessary slot,... I had wondered about how the Boom clamp would compress the Slider around the boom,... I had already routed my cabling etc,... luckily I was able to just take off the handle bars with all cables intact except the FD cable,... remove the Slider and make a slot. I just taped it off to make sure it was clean, straight and directly along the access of the Slider,... I used a hacksaw (free hand) then a thin file to increase the width of the slot. It was super simple and clean.

I just published two blogs (on my Bengal cat blog) about my Silvio 2.0 build and first ride. My build posting is not very detailed but the the info might be fun and maybe helpful to some.

http://tanj-uschi.blogspot.com/2013/07/new-family-member-cruzbike-silvio...

http://tanj-uschi.blogspot.com/2013/07/cruzbike-maiden-voyage.html