Spring Time - Learning To Ride Time

[castlerobber]

the final solution was a front hub motor on the rear wheel

I have a Quest 2.0. I've been wondering how difficult this would be to do. What motor did you use?

 

[danhunt56]

I have a Quest 2.0. I've been wondering how difficult this would be to do. What motor did you use?

I used a Bafang 500 watt motor. It came mounted on a sturdy e-bike ready wheel with 12 gauge spokes. I ordered of course a disc brake version. The disc needed to be increased in size and the appropriate adapter to replace the original. I mounted the plastic box for the controller on the back of the seat. I mounted the battery on the back rack. Because the handlebars are mounted just bellow eye level I used the small 500c display which has the controls integrated into it and mounts next to the left grip. The rear of the bike is now as heavy as the front. The most difficult to figure out part is the torque arm. I used a small stainless arm I bought on amazon and drilled a hole in the frame. I have done a number of mid drive motors, and one Bafang rear hub motor before this. So this was a pretty easy install. I cut the axels shorter, but it only really needed it on the right side. If I did it again I would abandon the acorn nuts and use nuts that allowed the axel end unlimited penetration through the nut. Or modified the nut. Cutting it was suggested by another guy who did a similar install. Had I not read that first I would have never have cut the axel ends back. I really like this motor and the freedom to do what ever I want on the front drive axel. One could use a rear drive hub motor on the front, one guy even put a mid drive motor way out front and likes it. I wanted to balance the weight so I did the front on rear solution. I am schwalbe 2” marathon plus tour tires. With fenders. I think I will come down a size or two when these wear out, but they are great for light off road and the bad patches that are plentiful here in Italy. They also are e-bike ready. They are also flat proof.

 

[CoachellaRider]

I'm definitely one of the "slow learners" but I've finally gotten to where I can ride down the street on my S40, turn around and come back, rinse repeat. A couple of my learnings which might help others:

I was having a LOT of trouble turning. I went back over the "How to learn to ride" instructions and watched several videos, and I realized I'd skipped the step of doing figure 8s while Flinstone walking the bike. 20 minutes of Flinstone 8s and my turning improved, but it was still terrible. Then I figured 2 things that helped me improve more:

1. Sit up straight when you turn

Ultimately I'd like to get to where I can turn just fine laying back, but I'm not there yet. As an interim step, sitting up straight where my chest almost touches the handlebars changes the dynamic of the bike and makes turning much easier. I can't hammer this one in enough - for new riders struggling with turns, try sitting up before you turn.

2. Remember you're on a short wheelbase bicycle

This one is a little harder to describe, but I realized that I was turning as if the wheel was where the pedals were. In my head, that was the length of the bike, so it made sense to steer when the pedals were where I wanted to turn. So much of the instructions are focused on the dynamics of the MBB and its effect on turning, it's easy to forget that the shorter wheelbase is also a factor. I started thinking as if the front wheel were directly below my butt and turned accordingly. This was a MASSIVE improvement.

I was also having trouble understanding the "Lean out while you turn" instructions. It seems like all the videos of cruzbikes show them going in a straight line. Robert has some great videos where he turns, but Robert is a zen master on a cruzbike, and his leans are a bit too subtle for me to pick up on.

I did some research on motorcycle forums, and I think I found the term people are talking about: Counterleaning. Here's a great video on counterleaning and how it fits into a motorcycle's dynamics:

 

[chicorider]

Correct about counterleaning. On upright, diamond frame bikes the wisdom is to weight the outside pedal during turns while keeping the body fairly upright as the bike leans and dives into the corner. When I figured out that leaning on the outside edge of the Cruzbike's seatpan while keeping my head mostly upright as the bike leaned into the turn had a similar effect, that was a cornering gamechanger for me.

 

[danhunt56]

I have been riding since last November, maybe a thousand miles. I added a hub motor to the rear early on, besides making any hill easily doable a it is an excellent training aid. I find high cadence solves a lot of problems with steering and the motor keeps it moving so that I am not having to balance the bike because wheel dynamics are keeping the bike up. Initially leaning was minimal and the lack of it was counter productive, bikes steer after certain speed by leaning above an and the gyroscopic effect keeps it stable. Recently I have started leaning into the curve instead of counterleaning and besides being a lot more fun my turning radius has tightened and there is less steering correction. On my motorcycle I often hang off at least part of my body, but there too when staying neutral, ie leaning with bike, creates that same relaxed fun feeling. On dirt bikes or dirty roads I was trained to weight the outside peg. Obviously that dynamic is not really part of recumbent riding although I have started to also play with “standing” on the pedals by lifting my butt off the seat. Going down hill through a patch of rough pavement this is so much more comfortable although a pothole can hurt the ankle as it now takes the impact. After reading this I will try consciously counter leaning. It might be the missing ingredient for making a slow tight u-turn.

Another trick from motorcycle riding is to look where you want to go. When I am fighting the steering on my Quest 2.0 I am usually looking at the wall I don’t want to hit and can’t seem to turn away from it.

I agree with the sit-up position. My first recumbent I raised the back of the seat about 3 inches and my body suddenly stopped freaking out. The Quest 2.0 seat back is adjustable. I have it one notch up from all the way back which is a bit more upright then the S40. Laying down on top of a bike and balancing it is not a natural thing to do. My body really did not like it. Reclined seating on the other hand is really fun if not taken too far. You could try a foam wedge during your learning curve on the S40.

 

[CoachellaRider]

You could try a foam wedge during your learning curve on the S40.

That's an interesting idea. I'll keep working at it as is for now, but if I keep struggling I'll give that a try.

I read about your e-bike conversion with great interest. I've been thinking of trying something like it when the Skarper clip on becomes available in the US https://www.wired.com/story/skarper-ebike-first-ride-impressions/

 

[danhunt56]

That's an interesting idea. I'll keep working at it as is for now, but if I keep struggling I'll give that a try.

I read about your e-bike conversion with great interest. I've been thinking of trying something like it when the Skarper clip on becomes available in the US https://www.wired.com/story/skarper-ebike-first-ride-impressions/

That would be an ideal “training motor” for recumbents. Looking at it I am afraid the non industry standard chain and seat stay arrangement would likely make attaching the unit a challenge. Cruzbike should follow this idea and develop clip on motors they could sell or rent to new riders. For a permanent motor there are so many more choices and some cheaper ways to commit to e-biking a bike that I would still opt for them instead and being able to customize my creation. Adding a motor has some minor complications but I find those all a fun part of developing a bike. The front hub motor at the rear on a Cruzbike is quite straightforward, if you install a rear rack a kit could be devised with a battery and controller inside a clip on pack, and an interchangeable wheel. But once you’ve experienced your bike as an e-bike you’re not likely going back.

 

[quickbeam]

Correct about counterleaning. On upright, diamond frame bikes the wisdom is to weight the outside pedal during turns while keeping the body fairly upright as the bike leans and dives into the corner. When I figured out that leaning on the outside edge of the Cruzbike's seatpan while keeping my head mostly upright as the bike leaned into the turn had a similar effect, that was a cornering gamechanger for me.

So it's the opposite of what you see the professional motorcycle racers doing on turns. They actually have a knee protector on their inside leg to get down low enough to touch the ground.