SRAM 11-speed 11-36 cassette for double chainrings?

[Ifan Payne]

SRAM makes several 10-speed 11-36 cassettes for double and triple chainrings but I cannot find a SRAM 11-speed cassette for double chainrings, they all seem to be for a single chainring. Is this right? Does SRAM not market an 11-speed cassette for a double chainring?

 

[Ifan Payne]

To clarify, I am referring to a 11-speed, 11-36 for a double chainring.

 

[Charles.Plager]

There are certainly MTB 2x11 SRAM systems. You may be right that there aren't any road cassettes. (???)

 

[Ifan Payne]

Yes, but I don't see any 11-speed 11-36 cassettes.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Yes, but I don't see any 11-speed 11-36 cassettes.

How 'bout this one?

 

[ratz]

Of course they just changed everything this year for the 11sp MTB introduction
Fortunately everything in the cassettes remains interchangeable. (except when it's not)...

When Robert's back he can verify me but this is what I was reading about in January.

The 11sp road size cassettes now go up to 11-36T
https://www.sram.com/sram/road/component/cassettes

The 11sp mountain ones are all now standard
10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42
https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/component/cassettes
((I think that's a great idea for the most part just 1 real MTB cassette to worry about)).

But and it's a big but the 11-36T line is orphaned for those with Doubles because it's lies in the noman's land between road and mtb. There is no native 11sp derailleur that is made to work with the 11-36T and a double. With the new focus on cycle-cross (they are chasing the sales and that's where all the sales are coming from) much of the line is geared for a "single" in front; and those new 11sp rear derailleurs are very suboptimal for a double. If the derailleur says "Horizon" in it's name it's for a single and the anti-chain slap tech will make is shift like garbage on a double. Don't even get me started on the stupid product name structure in the MTB line it makes no sense whatsoever.

So what do you do....?

It's not too bad if you are careful..... What they still don't make clear is that road and mtb derailleurs are still 100% compatible with Road and MTD shifters you can mix and match those. So what you have is: The standard road derailleurs max out at 32T (Wipfli); with the exception being that on some frames the wipfli can actually take a 36T. (Not on a Cruzbike Silvio 2.0 or Vendetta 2.0,with the 10sp Wilfli I tested it) Robert would have to comment on the S30 and V20 and the 11sp wilfli ...

....so to run the wider 11Sp road cassettes you need an MTB derailleur, but as I pointed out there are NO 11sp derailleurs available that are made for a double (Technically the 11sp single stuff isn't' shipping either; typical for SRAM you read about it in January you are lucky if you can finally find it and buy it in July ) . Fortunately the 10sp derailleurs will work; you just need 11sp shifters to control it. There is enough left right travel in the 10sp's models to run an 11sp cassette after you move the limit screws; the shifters will control the position and fortunately SRAM did NOT change the cable pull so it just works. So your best derailleur for an 11sp 11-36T cassette is still the X9 type 2.1 10-sp. Get it with the long cage and you will be able to use the new 10-42T cassettes as well.

The new XG-1180 mini cluster might be the ultimate Vendetta mountain cassette. That should be about the perfect out of the box cassette for someone like Rick; 10T for easy cruzing down hill at 39mph+ @ 60rpm and; and a 42T for hours for torture going back up. Advantage to the MTB line over third party is the entire cluster being pinned together so the 36-42T don't strip out a road free hub while climbing. Disadvantage you won't be doing after market mods to a pinned cassette.

Other thoughts for the S30 and V20. There are four 11sp stacks that really make sense; because the bikes climb so well.

• Flat landers a 11-23T or 11-25T is good;
• roller land 12-28T,
• moderate hills with steeps 11-32T,
• mountain goat land 10-42T, (11-44T after market)

The reason SRAM has orphaned the The 11-36T for double is because it's in no man's land. You can account for those gears with front ring selection on double. Only a Single really needs a 36T on the back. With small front rings on a 11-32T or big rings on a 10-42T you get the same gearing without having a derailleur that is almost too small or too big for the cassette.

Put Qrings on in the 52T/34T combo and it really becomes an unneeded size for the CB platform. Just my $0.02. For reference sake. Wife's bike 52T/34T Qrings, 11-32T cassette 11sp, my silvio 52T/36T Qring, 11-32T 10sp; vendetta 52T/36T Qrings, 12-28T 11sp.

Makes a LOT of sense to play with configurations here before you order; If you are honest if you really need a 36T and a double; then you probably would be better served by the 42T; if you don't need the 42T; then a 32T and a 34T front chain ring is probably going to be the ticket.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html?R0=20&R1=49&R2=999&C0=11&C1=14&C2=17&C3=20&C4=23&C5=26&C6=29&C7=32&C8=35&C9=38&C10=40&CAS=0&WI=35&CR=155&RT=0&ST=0&RPM=80&SRT=0&lRPM=60&hRMP=110&G=show&S=no&TITLE=Charles Plagers Cruzbike Sofrider&HL=1


-Inspector Gadget out.....

 

[trplay]

Thanks for the info. Although thats a little more than I can digest. Can you zero in on my issue? A x7 deraileur, 50/34 front, with a 12-36 ten speed rear cassette. Does it work? Is it dumb? And I'm having trouble adjusting it. Is it me or the combination?

 

[ratz]

Thanks for the info. Although thats a little more than I can digest. Can you zero in on my issue? A x7 deraileur, 50/34 front, with a 12-36 ten speed rear cassette. Does it work? Is it dumb? And I'm having trouble adjusting it. Is it me or the combination?

Well it wasn't dumb by the last 2 years standard when Sram was pushing the 36T ten speed cassettes. I think they are just finally figuring out it's either too big or too small when you add the 1 extra cog to play with on 11sp.

So let me ask
What's the cage length on the X7? medium or long?
which shifters? You have bar ends still right or did you change to brifters?
and the 12-36 is 12,13,14,16,18,21,24,28,32,36 right?

If it is what I remember That should shift well. I would suspect the cable housing on the rear shifter is bad if it's unpredictable across the range. aka you can get the top or the bottom of the range to shift clean but not the entire thing. This can happen with software housing meant for road shifters used with the heavy spring of a MTB shifter. Shimano is notorious for that and why I just use Jag-wire now.

Off the top of my head I would have done a 52/36 on the front and for the back I'd do like robert and rick did, a modified cassette with 12-42T or 12-44T I'll plug that into the calculator and show you what I mean.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Does it work? Is it dumb? And I'm having trouble adjusting it. Is it me or the combination?

Yes and No.

It may be worth checking your RD hanger. I bent mine 2 weeks ago, and didn't know. The sifting went to heck, i tried and tried to get it right. Then checked the hanger to find it was slightly twisted. Eyeballing the hanger was worthless, but comparing to the backup one Cruzbike shipping the framesets with, I could see the difference right away.

I'm real picky on shifting, my 52tx34t with 13t-42t cassette shifts flawlessly. No ghost shifting or dropped chains.

 

[ratz]

50/34 x 12-36 rings Gear Inches (24.9-109.5)

http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.she...RT=0&lRPM=60&hRMP=110&G=show&S=no&TITLE=Moose&HL=1

52/36 x 12-42 round rings Gear inches (22.6 - 105.5)

http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.she...RT=0&lRPM=60&hRMP=110&G=show&S=no&TITLE=Moose&HL=1

52/34 x 12-42 qrings Gear inches ( 18.8 - 1113.6)(runs-like-56x30)

http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.she...RT=0&lRPM=60&hRMP=110&G=show&S=no&TITLE=Moose&HL=1


I'm firmly of the opinion that if you are pedaling at 35+ you should save the energy and coast because the uphill is coming back at you and you need to save the power for the climb. So that skews my opinion of a 110 rpm spin out top end.

 

[ratz]

It may be worth checking your RD hanger.

And this +1;

we had one that wasn't bent but it wasn't seated probably in the the cut out; and it shifted wonky until I found it.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I'm firmly of the opinion that if you are pedaling at 35+ you should save the energy and coast because the uphill is coming back at you and you need to save the power for the climb. So that skews my opinion of a 110 rpm spin out top end.

+1 - I'm tapping out about 33 mph and welcome the free speed after that!

 

[ratz]

+1 - I'm tapping out about 33 mph and welcome the free speed after that!

That gets back to the power meter. I was shocked how much power it takes to go from 27-33 and from 35 up. just shocked it was a stupid high amount equivalent to a hard climb; it just doesn't feel like it when you are bombing at speed, hair on fire, wind in the face..... On a long ride I'd rather not waste that kind of energy. So I replaced my vendetta cassette to have a max of a 12T to keep myself honest when I ride. So far I'm seeing faster average speeds and I'm much smarter about my hills coast down; hammer up. Always learning always tweaking.

 

[Ifan Payne]

Ratz, thank your for your detailed response. I totally agree with the analysis in your first five or six paragraph which is what prompted me to ask the question in the first place when I discovered that 11-36 did indeed seem to have been orphaned.

I do live in the high altitude mountain goat land of New Mexico so if I consider a 10-42 cassette (for distance road riding) then I have a couple of follow up questions (ignoring relative costs for the moment):

1. Why not the XG-1199 cassette which slightly lighter than the XG-1180?
2. Why not the GX 2 x 11 rear derailleur since it is an 11-speed derailleur? Is there an issue with chain wrap using, say 50/34 chainrings, since that would be (42-10)+(50-34)=48?

 

[trplay]

So let me ask
What's the cage length on the X7? medium or long?
which shifters? You have bar ends still right or did you change to brifters?
and the 12-36 is 12,13,14,16,18,21,24,28,32,36 right?

I would suspect the cable housing on the rear shifter is bad if it's unpredictable across the range. aka you can get the top or the bottom of the range to shift clean but not the entire thing.
.

You have a good memory: Bar ends--Long cage- correct on the cassette. You nailed the shifting behavior: aka you can get the top or the bottom of the range to shift clean but not the entire thing.
So are you saying replace the cable housing?

 

[ratz]

1. Why not the XG-1199 cassette which slightly lighter than the XG-1180?
2. Why not the GX 2 x 11 rear derailleur since it is an 11-speed derailleur? Is there an issue with chain wrap using, say 50/34 chainrings, since that would be (42-10)+(50-34)=48?

The XG-1199 is 4130 chromoly while XG-1180 is machined steel with only the large cog in alloy so you should get around double the mileage. Since both require the XD Driver might as well get the best life span for the dollar. I go with titanium dura ace on my Shimano for the same reason. I like the stronger cassette for shifting under climbing load. really just a personal opinion . Note I seem to remember the XD driver implies 135mm wheel so this is s30/v20 territory.

Nice I didn't see the option for the long cage on the GX 2x11 until just now, with a mid cage it's just an expensive X9 and the X9 is very proven and cheaper. That is cool and should help with the capacity making it more interesting even as an upgrade for Rick's 10sp setup.

SRAM long cage in the real world is 45T capacity. So you'll be wrapped in small small if you try to run it but it will be close to useable. You can definitely run more chain on Cruzbike because you don't have to worry about chain sag with the 45 degree chain angle; so big+big is never a problem. You just might not have access to 34+11/10 but if you are in those combos it would probably be for a very short period of time or you need to practice more optimal shifting;

These 42-10 is definitely targeted at the 46/36 compact double and the 22.8-122.4 gear inches. But the S30 and V20 is going to be hard pressed to get the derailleur low enough without a modification.

I had been thinking that the 10-42 was going to be nice with the 50/36 Q-ring combo. Add in the GX long cage and it's now more interesting. That is 32+14 so a 46T delta should run on the 45T capacity derailleur. Conservatively that's going to run like a 54/32 so gear inches in the (20.3-143.7) range.

Until someone builds it, it's still a thought exercise.; and what Rick and Robert did on 10speeds with after market cogs is a little more proven. But you knew that when you went down the 11sp line of thought. IF wolf makes an 11sp version of the 42T then those 12-36, 11sp cassettes become much more interesting as you don't have to then run at the extreme capacity of the derailleur; and really who needs 144 gear inches

Right now for big hills I think I still like the Modified 10-sp with the 42T; Q-rings 52/34, and now the GX long cage. All of that is shipping today and gives you the best low end and a reasonable top end. If you are a I want to pedal above 35mph sort; then the new 11-sp stuff is the ticket cause you can pedal up to about 43mph.

 

[ratz]

You have a good memory: Bar ends--Long cage- correct on the cassette. You nailed the shifting behavior: aka you can get the top or the bottom of the range to shift clean but not the entire thing.
So are you saying replace the cable housing?

Yeah I'd say your need new or stiffer housing (or the hanger is loose and moving) for the bar ends plus the x7; it's probably compressing but only at the high end so you are getting less cable pull as you go. You'd see it as the derailleur not moving in towards the hub enough the further you go. On the green quest we did this winter I used shimano brake housing on the shifters on error (it's soft) and it did that very thing; nice supper stiff jagwire poof problem solved. That's part of the reason I when with the jagwire link system on the silvios that stuff never compresses; once you nail the tuning it just stays for the entire season; the stuffs a pain to install takes 3x the time but then you just leave it.

 

[trplay]

This all makes a lot a sense. I'll give the housing the first try. Thank you all.

 

[ratz]

One more final piece for the 11sp stuff keep an eye on this:

http://www.oneupcomponents.com/pages/compatibility

They make the other main solution and they do custom cage arms make things really optimal. If anyone will do cool stuff with the new 11sp 10-42 cassette I'm guessing they will be first. It's them and wolf that is pushing sram and shimano to rethink this stuff in the first place.

The compatibility page has a lot of good info too.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

They make the other main solution and they do custom cage arms make things really optimal. If anyone will do cool stuff with the new 11sp 10-42 cassette I'm guessing they will be first. It's them and wolf that is pushing sram and shimano to rethink this stuff in the first place.

I wish Sram and Shimano would rethink their price points too on there ultra cassettes. Wolf just came out with a custom B-pivot knuckle for Shimano RD's for improved shifting.