Survived the virgin ride; it was scary fun!

[Danielpeper]

Hello,
Just came back from my virgin ride; hey now that was a ride I'll never forget! Found a big L-shaped parking lot and rode for about 45 minutes. (At least that's my story. :lol: ) I must say that reading the posts about the learning curve for becoming a rider helped me. I am probably not defining the bottom point of the curve, at any rate.
Took a fall while making a turn, a turn which kept decreasing in radius until the bike had tied me up. Pride definitely went before the fall. I broke the fall, such as it was, with my palm. It is not the best brake, but it worked in a pinched, and that scrape will heal. Like they say, "It's a long way from your heart...just rub some dirt on it."
Wore a helmet for the first time; boy those suckers are hot. I suppose I will continue wearing it, but I don't have to like it. (Mine is one of the premium ones with 'extra' ventilation. Yeah, right!)
'til next time, adios amigos!
Daniel

 

[Mark B]

It will get easier each time. Just remember to pay attention to what your hips are doing. When you turn, what you are doing is throwing your hips one way, or the other. What your body has learned from riding other bikes is to use body english to make minor corrections. On the Cruzbike, this is counterproductive and hence, your crash and burn. You need to unlearn body english, at least for now. Congrats on the first ride, it's going to be fun!

Not to lecture, but you should always wear a brain bucket.

Mark

 

[Danielpeper]

Hey Mark,
Thanks for the advice; I was doing just what you said.
And you are right about the 'brain bucket'. I should not need someone to encourage me to wear a helmet because I suffered a closed head injury in a car accident 22 years ago. Spent 8 days in a coma, and 100 days total in hospitals. Had to learn to walk again and talk again. So I am blessed to be able to learn to ride this bike.
Can you recommend a good indoor trainer to use with the Silvio? My thought is that I can work on developing cycling muscles, while I am getting used to the recumbent position. Plus, the weather can get nasty here in Michigan. I did some research and I like the Kurt Kinetic Pro. I am ready to pull the trigger, but was wondering if the oscillations in the FWD system found on the Silvio would cause any difficulties since the drive wheel is secured with a skewer through the axle. What do you think? Also Kinetic makes a special tire with a smooth surface for use with the trainer. Do I need to switch tires? This would be a hassle now, but would work when the outdoor riding season is over.
I ordered wider tires, 28mm to be put on the 700c wheels, because I wanted a smoother ride and to be able to better handle the bad roads around here. (I injured my tailbonebut when the LBS put them on they rubbed the inside top of the fork. So he put 25mm tires with 130 lbs of pressure on instead.The ride was pretty stiff. The asphalt was not very smooth. I had read that someone had run with the 28's, and wonder if they rubbed at first, but then wore down a bit and were fine? Advise? I want to go to a wider tire with lower pressure. What do you think? Also, my legs were lightly brushing the fork when I was riding. Do they make extensions so that the pedals are set a bit wider?
Does anybody else find the padding on the seat inadequate? Or is it just us guys with the flabby butts? LOL! Was thinking I could try some different material to better absorb the force and to make the ride more pleasant.
Thanks for your help,
Daniel

 

[Mark B]

Danielpeper wrote: Can you recommend a good indoor trainer to use with the Silvio? My thought is that I can work on developing cycling muscles, while I am getting used to the recumbent position. Plus, the weather can get nasty here in Michigan.

I used a trainer for awhile, but not with my Silvio. I forget the brand and model, but it suspended the rear wheel and applied tension against the rim. Trainers can wear your tires out pretty fast. Keep in mind whatever trainer you select, the bike will go backwards in the trainer to what you would think.

Danielpeper wrote: I ordered wider tires, 28mm to be put on the 700c wheels, because I wanted a smoother ride and to be able to better handle the bad roads around here. (I injured my tailbonebut when the LBS put them on they rubbed the inside top of the fork. So he put 25mm tires with 130 lbs of pressure on instead.The ride was pretty stiff. The asphalt was not very smooth. I had read that someone had run with the 28's, and wonder if they rubbed at first, but then wore down a bit and were fine? Advise? I want to go to a wider tire with lower pressure. What do you think?

I run 25's on mine, but nowhere near that pressure. Try taking the pressure down to around 90 or 100#, see if that's not a little more comfortable.

Danielpeper wrote: Also, my legs were lightly brushing the fork when I was riding. Do they make extensions so that the pedals are set a bit wider?

They have pedal extenders that you can get on e-bay pretty cheap. Opinions seem to be split on whether or not they are effective. I guess they would be worth a try.

Danielpeper wrote: Does anybody else find the padding on the seat inadequate? Or is it just us guys with the flabby butts? LOL! Was thinking I could try some different material to better absorb the force and to make the ride more pleasant.
Thanks for your help,
Daniel

I haven't had any issues with the seat cusions and I have a pretty 'ample" butt myownself. Everybody's tastes are different, but I find the seat to be superbly comfortable. I've done 70 and 75 miles on it and no issues whatsoever. That being said; there's nothing says you can't get creative and try something different. By all means, keep us posted what you find out and take some dadgum pictures, will you?!!? :lol:

Mark

 

[Danielpeper]

Hey,
Got to find some greener pasture. The parking lot I chose for my first training run was pretty desolate, a factory closed down. I did not want to draw a crowd. I am sure that one fine day I will improve just as you guys did, but for now would feel more comfortable if I drove to some better setting. There are some nice Metroparks close by. I might be challenged in keeping to the bike path, but it should be okay. Can you recommend a good bike carrier?
And I need to figure out a way to carry some water, and a repair kit, and maybe a skin of wine. I have read about the Old Man Mountain rack. Do you recommend it?
I know it is not the best idea, but I have the strongest urge to go fast on this bike. When I get my legs in shape, look out!
Daniel

 

[Mark B]

Danielpeper wrote: Hey,
Got to find some greener pasture. The parking lot I chose for my first training run was pretty desolate, a factory closed down. I did not want to draw a crowd. I am sure that one fine day I will improve just as you guys did, but for now would feel more comfortable if I drove to some better setting. There are some nice Metroparks close by. I might be challenged in keeping to the bike path, but it should be okay. Can you recommend a good bike carrier?
And I need to figure out a way to carry some water, and a repair kit, and maybe a skin of wine. I have read about the Old Man Mountain rack. Do you recommend it?
I know it is not the best idea, but I have the strongest urge to go fast on this bike. When I get my legs in shape, look out!
Daniel

I'm the wrong guy to ask about bike racks!

For water, there are two sets of holes on the seat back intended for bottle cages. You'll need to run to the store to get some 5m flathead machine screws and nylok nuts.

Patch kits, tools, tubes and such... I have a bag that tucks up into the deadspot under the seat. I wrap the strap around the bag and the frame for security while a piece of industrial velcro applies enough friction to keep it in place. A quick and dirty way is to use a fanny pack.

I don't own an OMM rack, but may soon.

Just worry about learning to ride. With this bike, the going fast part will take care of itsellf!!!

Mark

 

[WhiteSilvio]

I have been interested to read the experiences of new riders and the advice that others are offering.

Mark B wrote: It will get easier each time. Just remember to pay attention to what your hips are doing. When you turn, what you are doing is throwing your hips one way, or the other. What your body has learned from riding other bikes is to use body english to make minor corrections. On the Cruzbike, this is counterproductive and hence, your crash and burn. You need to unlearn body english, at least for now.
Mark

I found this interesting but left slightly confused, but I am assuming that one should avoid hip movements while riding. I actually tried moving my hips around and I have to say I shan't be trying that again in a hurry. :shock: (Unless it's a technique that should be mastered for some reason.)

I am experiencing a sort of weave whilst riding my Silvio.
This happened after I had taken off downhill. I turned right out of a parking lot and headed downhill around a sweeping left hand turn. The road drops about 5 metre in about 50 metres. Then the road then flattens out for a short while at the same time starting into a sweeping right turn that starts to rise.
(Since I was doing "laps" I repeated this exercise about five times with similar results each time.)

It is as I am picking up speed in the LH downhill sweeper, and as I am exiting this bend, that I find it very easy to induce a sort of long pitch weave. (maybe 5metres plus) The amplitude of the weave is probably a metre, maybe a little more. The bike feels like it will very readily lean, like it's top heavy. This seems to be initiated by just pedaling and changing up through the gears. It's not alarming to a point where I think it's going to into an unstable state resulting in crash and burn, but it is not pleasant. It's at this point that I wonder how on earth others ride hands free!!

Is this phenomena something that others have experienced?

I also find it easy to weave a bit even on the flat when I am trying to push-on at 30kph plus, (Not that I sustain that for too long as I still don't have too much fitness about me, but that's slowly improving.) and again when I change gear seems to initiate minor movement.

Regards,
John R.

 

[Doug Burton]

Hi John,

I've encountered most of the this you're describing.

The "top heavy" feeling will dissipate as your body learns the relationship between bike lean rate and steering correction on the bike. This is something our bodies learn for all recumbents, as it's different for every "chassis" and is tied up in things like tire diameter, center-of-gravity height, head tube angle and trail dimension.

Our "conscious" brains cannot process this information fast enough, as in any high-speed physical endeavor. It has to be "programmed" into our closed-loop "athletic" control system, and this can only really be done by practice and repetition.

Because steering involves balancing your leg input with your arm input, changing the force ratio between the two, when shifting for example, will cause you to rebalance the force being applied by your hands and/or feet. This is where the little wobble you experience on shifting comes from. You can approach this a couple of ways; you can back-off on pedal force momentarily when you shift (your drivetrain will love you for this, too) or you can complete the shift and hammer the next rotation where you might bobble. This causes an "exception" to occur in your body control, and assumes you will "take over" with a conscious control effort after introducing the extra force.

Glad to see you're out and riding and enjoying the Silvio!

Best,

 

[Mark B]

Hardtailcruzer wrote: Hi John,

I've encountered most of the this you're describing.

The "top heavy" feeling will dissipate as your body learns the relationship between bike lean rate and steering correction on the bike. This is something our bodies learn for all recumbents, as it's different for every "chassis" and is tied up in things like tire diameter, center-of-gravity height, head tube angle and trail dimension.

Our "conscious" brains cannot process this information fast enough, as in any high-speed physical endeavor. It has to be "programmed" into our closed-loop "athletic" control system, and this can only really be done by practice and repetition.

Because steering involves balancing your leg input with your arm input, changing the force ratio between the two, when shifting for example, will cause you to rebalance the force being applied by your hands and/or feet. This is where the little wobble you experience on shifting comes from. You can approach this a couple of ways; you can back-off on pedal force momentarily when you shift (your drivetrain will love you for this, too) or you can complete the shift and hammer the next rotation where you might bobble. This causes an "exception" to occur in your body control, and assumes you will "take over" with a conscious control effort after introducing the extra force.

Glad to see you're out and riding and enjoying the Silvio!

Best,

:shock: OK, I was going to offer the great advice of "practice, practice, practice", but Doug went into why and how... Great descriptions, too. It all comes down to spending time letting your body get used to the bike. It's a fast bike and certainly worth the bother.

Mark

 

[WhiteSilvio]

Doug and Mark,

Your comments/advice let me know I'm not alone with these "problems" . That's great comfort. If I hadn't read all the comments over the last year I may well have decided it was all too hard, and given away the idea of ever being able to ride this contraption. But because of the ride reports etc I persisted. I knew it could be done.

I shall keep your advice in mind for my next ride, as I slowly build up a few kilometres. I've just covered a tad over 70ks so far, and yesterday ventured out on to the road, a quiet road, reasonably flat except at either end, to get up a few ks, 25 to be precise; get the old legs used to turning again like they used to. It seems sort of strange that I used to think nothing much of riding 80 to 100km in one hit on my LeMond DF. That all feels out of the question at the moment.

But it will all come back slowly, just like riding a bicycle!! :roll:

The bike is slowly getting the way I want it. I've fitted two bottle holders on the seat back and stood one off with a couple of spacers ,so I can attach my pump.
I bought a CamelBak bottle and hands free hose for hydration and one of those dummy short bottles that you put all your bits and pieces in. I have my cyclemeter working and additionally I converted a spare one I had to be a cadence meter. Initially I didn't think I would be able to with just a single magnet, but I crunched the numbers again and worked out how I could make it work. My old cadence meter used 6 magnets mounted inside the chainrings but I couldn't see how to mount six inside the compact chainrings, so I went back to one on the LH crank and the pickup on the side of the front carbon yoke. The only thing I lose is a minor amount of accuracy as the readout uses the first decimal place as part of the number, hence it reads 7.4 but this is actually 74RPM, for example. The average and the max and time all read out as in a normal cyclemeter.

After yesterday's ride I had to find the source of something that was scratching the inside of my left knee. I didn't notice it at the time and wondered how I was bleeding. Turned out to be the sharp cut end of a cabletie which was just sticking out far enough to make contact with inside of my knee on the upper part of the leg stroke. Nasty those cableties in the wrong hands!!

The lads at the LBS donated me a bell, looks like one of the Mirrcyle range, small and neat. Fits well on the bars.

Well that's enough from me. Thanks again to you guys, Doug and Mark.

As Doug would say, safe riding.
John R.

 

[Danielpeper]

Report from the front...
Still learning to ride the Silvio, sometimes it feels like learning to ride a wild horse bareback. (Of course, that's speculation because I have never ridden a horse, other than on a carousel.)
On Friday, I took a hard fall as I left the bike path while speeding downhill and crashed in the grass. I am okay, but the crash bent the brake handle/gear shift assembly on the left side of the handlebars. I bent it back a bit, and the brake works, but the small handle won't shift the front chainring. ( I have Shimano Ultegra components.)
Any advice on fixing the damage? Is there a better arrangement of the bar/handle that would prevent this problem?
I think I love this bike; I think.
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[Mark B]

Danielpeper wrote: Report from the front...
Still learning to ride the Silvio, sometimes it feels like learning to ride a wild horse bareback. (Of course, that's speculation because I have never ridden a horse, other than on a carousel.)
On Friday, I took a hard fall as I left the bike path while speeding downhill and crashed in the grass. I am okay, but the crash bent the brake handle/gear shift assembly on the left side of the handlebars. I bent it back a bit, and the brake works, but the small handle won't shift the front chainring. ( I have Shimano Ultegra components.)
Any advice on fixing the damage? Is there a better arrangement of the bar/handle that would prevent this problem?
I think I love this bike; I think.
Thanks,
Daniel

Don't kid yourself; getting bucked off a carousel horse hurts a lot. First of all, there's the hit onto the platform of the carousel and then, if you're lucky enough to not fall off the platform and get trampled by the carneys, you have to endure the laughter of the moms, the little kids and the rat bastard carneys that think that's soooo funny.

Dude, slow down a little! The speed will come with time, but replacing Shimano levers is going to get costly! Relax a little and don't put so much pressure on yourself to travel faster than you are comfortable with. Trust me, it will come with time. Big downhills can be frightening when you're first learning and when you're tensed up and scared, bad things get worse real fast. Feather the brakes and keep yourself at a speed you can handle.

As far as repairing the damage, it's likely you are going to have to replace the lever. Check at your LBS and see if they have some better ideas to keep it running until you quit crashing. In the meantime, quit crashing, the carneys are gonna bust a gut!

Mark

 

[Danielpeper]

Hey Mark,
Thanks for the good advice. Speed will come, I know, but I realize that something else is at work. I have to get over the desire to ride on the edge of control, which often leads me over the edge.
I remember, back in the day, once I was riding my trusty Raleigh and spied an attractive woman riding by on the path. I turned to get a longer look, and the brake lever got caught in the chain link fence surrounding the bike path. This brought the Raleigh to an immediate stop, but I was launched over the handlebars. As I somersaulted over the bars it was as though time slowed down. I thought to myself as I was 'flying': "This is pretty cool, as long as I don't get hurt." I landed on the asphalt path without too much damage physically. The next thing I knew the woman I had been ogling turned around to check on me, asking "Are you okay?" This would have been the perfect time to play on her sympathy and ask her out, but I cannot think that quickly on my feet, much less sprawled and bleeding on the path.
That happened many moons ago, but the hope still lives that I may meet that someone special through cycling. (Perhaps an emergency nurse!) If the Silvio helps me in this quest, then all these trials will have been worth it.
Ciao,
Daniel

 

[Mark B]

Danielpeper wrote: That happened many moons ago, but the hope still lives that I may meet that someone special through cycling. (Perhaps an emergency nurse!) If the Silvio helps me in this quest, then all these trials will have been worth it.
Ciao,
Daniel

:shock: Note to self.... Do NOT paceline behind Daniel. :roll: :lol: :lol:

Mark

 

[Danielpeper]

Hey Mark B,
That's pretty funny, I think. If I knew what the heck a paceline was, then i'd be all set. Remember, I am the rawest of newbies, as in raw hands, raw forearms, ...
I need to improve the padding on the seat; my tailbone is pretty sensitive. (An old Rollerblading injury.) What do you know about the Trico Painkiller Saddle Pad? It's a gel pad, like Sorbethane, I reckon.
Pace,
Daniel

PS What is the best way to learn to work on bikes? Relying on the LBS is turning out to be B.S.!

 

[MrSteve]

Danielpeper wrote:

PS What is the best way to learn to work on bikes? Relying on the LBS is turning out to be B.S.!

The Inter-Web is a gold mine of information, but first you need to learn what to search for, right?
Here's a pretty good place to start:

http://sheldonbrown.com/home.html

You're welcome.


-Steve

 

[Mark B]

Danielpeper wrote: Hey Mark B,
That's pretty funny, I think. If I knew what the heck a paceline was, then i'd be all set. Remember, I am the rawest of newbies, as in raw hands, raw forearms, ...
I need to improve the padding on the seat; my tailbone is pretty sensitive. (An old Rollerblading injury.) What do you know about the Trico Painkiller Saddle Pad? It's a gel pad, like Sorbethane, I reckon.
Pace,
Daniel

PS What is the best way to learn to work on bikes? Relying on the LBS is turning out to be B.S.!

A paceline is when a group of riders take turns leading out. Each rider sits in the slipstream of the rider in front of him, with only inches seperating tires and potential disaster. The lead rider rides for either a prearranged time,or until he or she is fatigued, at which time he signals, pulls to the side and lets the paceline continue past him. As the last rider comes past, he tucks in behind and takes his rest at the back until the paceline rotates and it's his turn again. It's a lot of fun when you ride in one that's working and sucks when it's not. The worst thing is when you have a rider that yo-yos... Speeds up and then slows down. Steady, steady, steady is the name of the game, along with being predictable and trustworthy.

I second Yakmurph's suggestion of Sheldon Brown's site. Park Tool has a nice self-help section, as well. Working on bikes is pretty easy. Definitely not rocket science, but having the right tools really helps, too.

Mark

 

[WhiteSilvio]

Went riding this morning and surprised myself accomplishing more than I expected.

A couple of things are of concern though.

Firstly. I am having a good deal of trouble with "up-hill" starts. I can manage flat or slight/gradual gradients, but I just don't seem to be able to provide enough oomph to get going and past the Bottom Dead Centre with my initial "power stroke" in time to get the other leg up and pushing.

Is there a secret or is it more of the try/practice, practice, practice, ...............??

The other thing that I still find disconcerting is the slight weave I get up when going a bit more quickly, over say 30kph. It's not uncontrollable but unnerving. There's the sensation that the front end could "fold" if left to it's own devices. As I've said in a previous post I can't yet imagine how people ride hands free!! (Even at lower speeds I'm reluctant to relinquish my grip on the handle-bars, and this doesn't make for good signaling!!)

Could this have anything to do with the tyres I'm using? I'm running 700 X 23s with as much pressure as I can get in them. I'm guessing 100psi plus, hopefully close to the recommended 120psi.

Any thoughts?

John R.

 

[JonB]

WhiteSilvio wrote: Firstly. I am having a good deal of trouble with "up-hill" starts. I can manage flat or slight/gradual gradients, but I just don't seem to be able to provide enough oomph to get going and past the Bottom Dead Centre with my initial "power stroke" in time to get the other leg up and pushing.

Is there a secret or is it more of the try/practice, practice, practice, ...............??

Are you starting in the right gear?

WhiteSilvio wrote: The other thing that I still find disconcerting is the slight weave I get up when going a bit more quickly, over say 30kph. It's not uncontrollable but unnerving. There's the sensation that the front end could "fold" if left to it's own devices. As I've said in a previous post I can't yet imagine how people ride hands free!! (Even at lower speeds I'm reluctant to relinquish my grip on the handle-bars, and this doesn't make for good signaling!!)

I felt the same unnerving in the beginning, but it got better. Just keep on rolling baby http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nupIl1UTLk0

 

[Peder Torgersen]

Danielpeper wrote:
I need to improve the padding on the seat; my tailbone is pretty sensitive. (An old Rollerblading injury.) What do you know about the Trico Painkiller Saddle Pad? It's a gel pad, like Sorbethane, I reckon.
Pace,
Daniel

PS What is the best way to learn to work on bikes? Relying on the LBS is turning out to be B.S.!

I put an extra cushion on my Sofrider. It might help you. It’s an easy way to get more comfort and the seat is the same if it’s enough to help with your problem I don’t know?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21320247@N06/sets/72157603313704669/

Peder

 

[Mark B]

WhiteSilvio wrote: Is there a secret or is it more of the try/practice, practice, practice, ...............??

If I find myself in the wrong gear, I use my power leg and "ratchet" the crank until I have enough momentum to pick my other foot up. Of course this only works if you're using clipless pedals.

WhiteSilvio wrote: The other thing that I still find disconcerting is the slight weave I get up when going a bit more quickly, over say 30kph. It's not uncontrollable but unnerving. There's the sensation that the front end could "fold" if left to it's own devices. As I've said in a previous post I can't yet imagine how people ride hands free!! (Even at lower speeds I'm reluctant to relinquish my grip on the handle-bars, and this doesn't make for good signaling!!)

I had some issues with that early on with downhills. Yes, it gets better. I think a lot of it is your brain fussing about what your body knows full well what to do.

WhiteSilvio wrote: Could this have anything to do with the tyres I'm using? I'm running 700 X 23s with as much pressure as I can get in them. I'm guessing 100psi plus, hopefully close to the recommended 120psi.

Try running your tires with a little lower pressure. Maybe that will slow things down a little until you get a tad more comfortable.

WhiteSilvio wrote: Any thoughts?

John R.

Sure, I'd give you fifty bucks for the white Silvio and you could forget the whole thing! :lol: :lol: Just kidding!

Mark