The Optimum Hip Angle for Maximum power?
- Thread starter ak-tux
- Start date
I developed or should maybe say was diagnosed with asthma only after starting to ride bents 16 months ago. I would cough fluid during and after rides. Inability to get HR up and therefore, aerobic power were low. I think I have always had some sort of undiagnosed breathing issue. Anyway.
Probably the most important thing I learned in the past year. As I get older and when/if I ever have an extended hospitalization, get out of bed as soon as possible. Walk. Sit upright in a chair. Get out of the supine position in that damned bed. Both of my parents died within the past 4 years after a hospital stay, complications from pneumonia that they got in the hospital.
Balor, add Beta Agonists to your doping list. LOL. The sand and dust in a desert race recently had me into an attack. In the rush to the 5 am start, I forgot my rescue inhaler. (Yes, I stopped and went back to the hotel). So, my experiences could be unique WRT to best leg and torso angles; however, a little time spent on forums devoted to pulmonologist or reading research papers shows that more reclined positions have a negative impact on gas exchange function, especially as we get older.
Balor
Zen MBB Master
Well, yea. It *does* seem that V/Q is suboptimal in supine position.
In my case, however, my circulation is certainly a bottleneck as compared to gas exchange.
It *might* become more of a problem as I adapt more - again, entire (metabolic) chain is as strong as the weakest link.
In my case, however, my circulation is certainly a bottleneck as compared to gas exchange.
It *might* become more of a problem as I adapt more - again, entire (metabolic) chain is as strong as the weakest link.
I've linked it before but this study probably answers the OP's question in terms of maximum, peak power production. It really drops off as the curves show. I saw it just with my lowered seat recently.
Riders with a power meter and a V20, S30, and S40 would have some good insight.
https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/viewFile/1788/1661
Riders with a power meter and a V20, S30, and S40 would have some good insight.
https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/viewFile/1788/1661
You mentioned hypoplasia and missing artery IIRC. Isn't pH detected in the carotids? Then, HR is controlled autonomically?
Your numb feet has to be due to hypoxia. What else can it be?
I am trying to understand (my feet are now perpetually numb). I've brought it up to my family doc, my neurologist, my Chiro, and pulmonologist. Crickets. Nada. Since my feet numbness is bilateral, I doubt it is a pinched nerve at L3/4, plus, no other symptoms. Skin color of feet do not change, so, I ruled out blood flow. No diabetes. I don't drink (maybe that is my problem). I've had an MRI to rule out MS (I have occipital neuralgia and double vision sometimes that could have been MS). Since I did not have numb feet prior to riding bents, it can't be the bent.
Balor
Zen MBB Master
Well, it seems like a worsening of your spine condition I fear. In my case (and everyone elses I've heard) foot numbness is localised to bent riding, especially when climbing and under higher power outputs. I didn't monitor my skin color, but my feet were also much colder on a bent as well.
Unfortunately, in your case, a prone recumbent will likely make things much worse without an elaborate chin rest and very good front suspension (but it is very easy to have on a bike like this).
Unfortunately, in your case, a prone recumbent will likely make things much worse without an elaborate chin rest and very good front suspension (but it is very easy to have on a bike like this).
So, your foot numbness is transient (?).
One of the reasons I swapped out the seat for the Thor is the Thor is wider at my derriere. I was hoping this might help the numb feet. My feet actually got less numb when I lowered seat a bit in the Spring. I haven't given it enough thought to be honest but I tend to prefer my cheaper Mavic bibs over the Assos Mille S5 and it might be subconscious.....the Mille are the endurance model with a thicker pad.....might cause some circulatory impingement.
One of the reasons I swapped out the seat for the Thor is the Thor is wider at my derriere. I was hoping this might help the numb feet. My feet actually got less numb when I lowered seat a bit in the Spring. I haven't given it enough thought to be honest but I tend to prefer my cheaper Mavic bibs over the Assos Mille S5 and it might be subconscious.....the Mille are the endurance model with a thicker pad.....might cause some circulatory impingement.
Balor
Zen MBB Master
Of course it is. I've never had foot numbness except on a bent. I have flat feet + varus and got foot pain on long brevets sometimes (bad enough so I had to gulp down some painkillers) on DF, that got even worse on a bent, but I've fixed that by wedging. I want to move to midfoot as well.
I would get hotfoot (burning....not numb foot...pins and needles) on long upright rides in the heat, especially if I got hydration wrong (too much). I moved to mid-sole and a slightly large and wide shoe. Never had hot foot again. (never had numb feet on an upright). The first time I drilled shoe soles to mount mid-sole cleats, I was nervous and very careful but it isn't hard to do. Give it a try.
Unfortunately, I agree with you. My foot problem must be my spinal issues although the Doctors say no. But if I never had numb foot on an upright and got it on my first longish bent ride. I am not giving up. I was going to check it out on a 200K this weekend but it is supposed to be 25F at the start with sleet possible, I'd do it on an upright but not on a bent.
Unfortunately, I agree with you. My foot problem must be my spinal issues although the Doctors say no. But if I never had numb foot on an upright and got it on my first longish bent ride. I am not giving up. I was going to check it out on a 200K this weekend but it is supposed to be 25F at the start with sleet possible, I'd do it on an upright but not on a bent.
Balor
Zen MBB Master
A *great* thread on recumbents.com that I've somehow missed.
http://recumbents.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3027
http://recumbents.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3027
Just read the first post. I agree 100% and it mirrors why I think the Rotor RS4x gives me so much more power. I wrote that in the Q ring thread, IIRC. Interesting, I am going to read all 8 pages.
The hips and psoas muscles move on an upright and I am not talking rockin.
So, that thread has a fellow Larry Lem who seems to have had a firm grasp on upright and recumbent 20 km TT power where he made 15% more on the upright plus he had 20Km TT data from the exact same course on an upright and bent over years......great point of reference. My upright FTP is now only 12% higher and getting lower (have not done an FTP test in awhile, I expect the difference to be under 10% now). Just one data point. My peak power on the upright is 25% higher than on a bent. Another fellow (Sean) made it clear not to mix aerobic and anaerobic power. I agree. Separate constraints.
The discussion on warmups (especially 25hz post) on a bent is spot on from my experience. He theorized that the return loop pressure is low, I think Balor knows my position. Anyway. Warm ups have to be longer and end being quite intensive. I found there is more of a delay and that during the initial ramp up, it helps me to breath slower, deeper, and 50/50 chest/belly breathing as if I am almost not taking in enough O2. My best 10 mile TTs are always if I start them drenched after a long, hard warmup. Probably the best advice in that whole thread.
Well, the first two pages were promising but the last six fizzled out as several posters veered the topic off. I have read Aure's post probably 50 times.....most conclude that he makes the same power on an upright as a bent, but that is not what the post says.
Another point touched and one that I have thought about is how O2 is actually delivered and how to make the hemoglobin more squishy if indeed lower periphery pressure inhibits transport thru capillaries. I forget now why I moved away from that theory but it was interesting to see another thinking along the same lines.
The discussion on warmups (especially 25hz post) on a bent is spot on from my experience. He theorized that the return loop pressure is low, I think Balor knows my position. Anyway. Warm ups have to be longer and end being quite intensive. I found there is more of a delay and that during the initial ramp up, it helps me to breath slower, deeper, and 50/50 chest/belly breathing as if I am almost not taking in enough O2. My best 10 mile TTs are always if I start them drenched after a long, hard warmup. Probably the best advice in that whole thread.
Well, the first two pages were promising but the last six fizzled out as several posters veered the topic off. I have read Aure's post probably 50 times.....most conclude that he makes the same power on an upright as a bent, but that is not what the post says.
Another point touched and one that I have thought about is how O2 is actually delivered and how to make the hemoglobin more squishy if indeed lower periphery pressure inhibits transport thru capillaries. I forget now why I moved away from that theory but it was interesting to see another thinking along the same lines.
cranky cyclist
Guru
Practice exhaling until it triggers your body to inhale. This expels the CO2 and increases the amount of O2 inhaled. It also decreases lactic acid build up.
Balor
Zen MBB Master
Been not feeling well, finally I seem to get good enough for a test. Decided to take some 'doping' on a whim.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1957347182
Well, not much of doping indeed! Worst performance so far. Got flushing and dizziness as well. And my feet got numb by the end of half hour excersize - that didn't happen on the previous one!
Funny enough I've hit higher max HR despite much lower power overall, anaerobic and aerobic.
Ok, maybe I'm not too well yet after all, need more tests I guess... but I think I may add blood pressure RISING medications to the list instead.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1957347182
Well, not much of doping indeed! Worst performance so far. Got flushing and dizziness as well. And my feet got numb by the end of half hour excersize - that didn't happen on the previous one!
Funny enough I've hit higher max HR despite much lower power overall, anaerobic and aerobic.
Ok, maybe I'm not too well yet after all, need more tests I guess... but I think I may add blood pressure RISING medications to the list instead.
Balor
Zen MBB Master
Charles Brown piped in on recumbents. com (the legendary bike builder with literally generations of experience) and noted that using compression stockings (he has varicose veins) allows him to ride bents with much higher BB.
This is *extremely* counter-intuitive! I mean, shouldn't 'legs up' position result in great venous return anyway and tight hose restrict blood flow?
On the other hand, my experience with Viagra is rather telling in this respect...
This is *extremely* counter-intuitive! I mean, shouldn't 'legs up' position result in great venous return anyway and tight hose restrict blood flow?
On the other hand, my experience with Viagra is rather telling in this respect...
The skinsuit is not really compression, it just fits really tight due to abundance of the rider squeezed into it. The forearms are really, really tight.
I know that UCI banned knee length socks and compression garments in general; however, the research is mixed and I did not find a recumbent specific study.
Balor.....not sure if this helps but I did a hilly 200K yesterday and it was 35F and 20 mph winds. I dressed normally for said conditions but my feet got cold (they never do at that temp). The funny part is when I got off the bike either at controls or to walk 13-15% hills, my feet would be ensconced in a nice warmness. I would have thought venous return would be better with the feet up so high. Frankly, I don't know. Going to look into compression socks, thanks.
Balor
Zen MBB Master
I don't do winter riding much due to chronic sinusitis, but compared to other people I've been riding with my feet get cold much faster even on DF (even using thick socks and winter boots), and also get better by getting of the bike and walking some.
Situation, indeed, get much worse on a bent as well.
