To V20c as a lifelong DF roadie

[Frito Bandito]

Thanks braddah. Yep, that's me. Glad you enjoyed the videos. I want to put more up, but I essentially stay on the Arakawa because it is so convenient and fast but there are only so many Arakawa videos people will watch haha. That ride was with bullhorn bars and 11-speed Dura Ace TT shifters. I still have that system in storage in case my SRAM Force AXS fails. The Arakawa river is a great place to ride though. Uncrowded, no cars or traffic lights. You can open it up and stay off the brakes all day. Actually, my current Shimano 105 brake pads are almost 2 years old and still have plenty of life in them haha. Like I wrote to the other peeps here, if you ever come to Tokyo you have a good friend here with plenty of time to ride, hang out and explore. I'd love to do a ride across Japan or at least part of it. Now that entry into Japan is easier after September 7th I think more people will start coming here.

 

[Randyc3]

I really can’t wait to get back on the bike, I had such a great time today. is riding a cruzbike really all that different from riding a Bacchetta?

I started with a Bachetta. I switched after 250 miles to an S40. It feels more like a ”bike” to me and is faster IMHO.
Learning to ride has always been about the physics for me(gyroscopic effect). From Sept 16th”From my upright experience, push right on the handlebar, turn right due to force acting on the spinning wheel. My hypothesis is there are now 4 possible inputs to the front wheel: left/right via handlebar and left/right via your legs. For perfect inline riding all force inputs need to balance. And yes…..I am still wobbling. . Open to all comments ideas. Safe riding.” Not wobbling as much now. In the spirit of Frito, I wait for the DFs to pass, chase them down and pass them. Can’t wait, my V20c is on order. Welcome and safe riding.

 

[Tinker]

What the guru said is that Cruzbikes are heavy, can’t climb, and are very unsafe. unfortunately, he would not elaborate, and insisted that I listen to him and never buy a Cruisebike because i would fall and they're terrible….He very much wants to build me a Bacchetta from garage parts… so, I took him to lunch and told him that when I decide to get into an activity, I prefer to not start with entry-level materials

We're in the Cruzbike forums and i very much get the vibe that this guy may be a bit... hesitant regarding new experiences. Like people on a certain other recumbent forum.
But you also seem pretty fixated on this idea, to the point of dismissing other manufacturers outright as "entry-level".
Get a V20(c) by all means, i've also ordered one blind as my first recumbent bike, because the drive system seems a lot more practical to me than competitors' - i just want to emphasize other recumbents exist which are not 90s tech dinosaurs

 

[Frito Bandito]

We're in the Cruzbike forums and i very much get the vibe that this guy may be a bit... hesitant regarding new experiences. Like people on a certain other recumbent forum.
But you also seem pretty fixated on this idea, to the point of dismissing other manufacturers outright as "entry-level".
Get a V20(c) by all means, i've also ordered one blind as my first recumbent bike, because the drive system seems a lot more practical to me than competitors' - i just want to emphasize other recumbents exist which are not 90s tech dinosaurs

Yep, fast guys are going to be fast on anything they ride. I have never ridden a RWD recumbent, have only seen 2 Performers up close in person, but I won't slam any of them. I'll praise and will defend what I know and love, and try to keep bias out of my opinion as much as possible. If someone claims something opposite of what I experience then I will let them know so. I could probably harp on old Performers being bad for climbing and slow to accelerate but since I almost never climb I'd most likely sing it's praises on holding it's speed on the flats, and being very durable frames

 

[Mathew Fy]

Nice! this should make it easy…Looks like the hydraulic system is already pre-loaded and pressurized…that was my big concern…i hate bleeding hydraulic brakes, much less initially loading them. What’s not included for assembly? torque wrench with a T47 bit and some M1-10 hexes, I would assume? Maybe carbon grease…? why did you need longer hydraulic brake hoses? Did you have a special setup?

I purchased a frameset which includes only the items shown plus bolts & nuts in bags.
Hydraulic brake/brifter systems come assembled, but if you need to thread the hose through anything (as shown in Robert’s video) then cutting is required. There are easy-to-follow videos by SRAM and others, you need to buy a brake bleed kit. Hose length for Cruzbikes is longer than diamond frames to account for the boom. Even if you’re going with cable actuated brakes you’ll need one-piece housing for each side.
You need the tools and some grease Robert mentioned, a bike stand is nice to have.
This is, of course, only if you get a frameset.

 

[bladderhead]

tinker

There is a lot of tinkering to do. You may eventually decide you do not like the handlebars, after turning them round and back and upside down and back. Get new bars. Then try to find compatible brake levers. Get a rack. Get short cranks. That fit the chainwheel. Get a 12sp cog and a single chainwheel and make a bar-end friction-shifter. Get mudguards and lights. Make sure the fence wire is bent down flat so it is aerodynamic.

Do not worry about those nasty Bacchetta people. We empirically disprove them. Quite a lot.

It feels more like a ”bike” to me

Exactly. Why do I ride my S40 so much more than my Grasshopper? I have COPD. It is not quite suppressed by my medication. On my S40 I can climb. So a racer on a Vendetta should be able to climb. Learn to ride no-hands so you can give the Bacchettas the finger as you go past. This is not very aero.

 

[cpml123]

I started with a Bachetta. I switched after 250 miles to an S40. It feels more like a ”bike” to me and is faster IMHO.
Learning to ride has always been about the physics for me(gyroscopic effect). From Sept 16th”From my upright experience, push right on the handlebar, turn right due to force acting on the spinning wheel. My hypothesis is there are now 4 possible inputs to the front wheel: left/right via handlebar and left/right via your legs. For perfect inline riding all force inputs need to balance. And yes…..I am still wobbling. . Open to all comments ideas. Safe riding.” Not wobbling as much now. In the spirit of Frito, I wait for the DFs to pass, chase them down and pass them. Can’t wait, my V20c is on order. Welcome and safe riding.

I can attest to that in less a year Randy was averaging faster than our friends on DF. It of course has a lot to do with training as well. He trains frequently and goes fast. I ride only about 1000-1500 mi a year, so I lag behind even with a fast V20.

 

[Randyc3]

I can attest to that in less a year Randy was averaging faster than our friends on DF. It of course has a lot to do with training as well. He trains frequently and goes fast. I ride only about 1000-1500 mi a year, so I lag behind even with a fast V20.

Thank you for the kind words.

Always maintained and promoted the idea whatever gets you out on the road or trail is good. Be it a trike, Ebike, Bacchetta, DF or some other recumbent. I wave and chat with everyone.

Will admit it would be fun to try a M5 CHR. Even with this, I’m sure I would prefer the Vendetta. I really enjoy front wheel drive. Stay safe everyone.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

I’ve been riding a vendetta V20 for 8 years now, and I’m in my sixties. It took me 8 weeks and three crashes to rewire my brain enough to ride reasonably well. I built it up from a V20 frame kit, but used a Volae seat instead of the stock seat. I isolated the carbon fiber seat pan from the frame with hard rubber blocks and sorbothane, so it’s like riding on a cloud instead of riding an “ass hatchet”. I’ll never go back to a DF with its accompanying saddle sores, nerve damage, and butt pain.

I wear a normal cycling kit, and based on Larry’s recommendation, I started wearing a condom catheter years ago, and now I wear one for every ride. Now, every ride (weather permitting) is 100-miles or longer and I never stop to urinate. I usually do two or sometimes three 100-mile rides per week with no butt pain, no saddle sores, no nerve damage, and no lower back pain. I can train longer, get more fit, and not damage my body doing it. I have 35 centuries this year (2022) on real roads with real traffic and real A-holes already and will keep going until winter sets in.

I expect future improvements will perfect the design by using evolutionary engineering to optimize the design and a 3D printer to manufacture it using magnesium or some exotic material.

For safety, I have two mirrors on my handlebars (left and right) and front and rear daylight flashing lights. Mirrors and lights can save your life. I can always see behind myself on the Vendetta, unlike on a DF.

 

[gaspi101]

Thanks braddah. Yep, that's me. Glad you enjoyed the videos. I want to put more up, but I essentially stay on the Arakawa because it is so convenient and fast but there are only so many Arakawa videos people will watch haha. That ride was with bullhorn bars and 11-speed Dura Ace TT shifters. I still have that system in storage in case my SRAM Force AXS fails. The Arakawa river is a great place to ride though. Uncrowded, no cars or traffic lights. You can open it up and stay off the brakes all day. Actually, my current Shimano 105 brake pads are almost 2 years old and still have plenty of life in them haha. Like I wrote to the other peeps here, if you ever come to Tokyo you have a good friend here with plenty of time to ride, hang out and explore. I'd love to do a ride across Japan or at least part of it. Now that entry into Japan is easier after September 7th I think more people will start coming here.

Likewise, my friend! If you’re ever in Miami, Florida, you've got a riding partner! Thank you for all your advice and the great videos. Keep them coming!

 

[gaspi101]

I started with a Bachetta. I switched after 250 miles to an S40. It feels more like a ”bike” to me and is faster IMHO.
Learning to ride has always been about the physics for me(gyroscopic effect). From Sept 16th”From my upright experience, push right on the handlebar, turn right due to force acting on the spinning wheel. My hypothesis is there are now 4 possible inputs to the front wheel: left/right via handlebar and left/right via your legs. For perfect inline riding all force inputs need to balance. And yes…..I am still wobbling. . Open to all comments ideas. Safe riding.” Not wobbling as much now. In the spirit of Frito, I wait for the DFs to pass, chase them down and pass them. Can’t wait, my V20c is on order. Welcome and safe riding.

Hey, thanks! Looking forward to riding a cruzebike for the first time sometime the week…I’ll let you know how it goes!

 

[gaspi101]

We're in the Cruzbike forums and i very much get the vibe that this guy may be a bit... hesitant regarding new experiences. Like people on a certain other recumbent forum.
But you also seem pretty fixated on this idea, to the point of dismissing other manufacturers outright as "entry-level".
Get a V20(c) by all means, i've also ordered one blind as my first recumbent bike, because the drive system seems a lot more practical to me than competitors' - i just want to emphasize other recumbents exist which are not 90s tech dinosaurs

Well, The Bacchettas I saw were all with shifters that you twist with the handlebars, clearly 1990s tech…I’m sure there are others with more modern designs snd groupsets, but honestly, one of the attractive things of cruzebike is I can just swap in and out standard roadbike parts and upgrades (saddle excepting, of course)…and the company seems to keep innovating with new design upgrades, wind-tunnel testing, etc. I went to see the new Bacchetta CA3.0 (https://bacchettabikes.com/products/bacchetta-ca3-0-700c)..it’s got index shifters! like we used to have in roadbikes in the 80s, and you see now on some TT bikes at the end of the aerobars…who the heck made this design choice?…you have to actually remove your hand from the handlebars to shift, and you better hope you don’t press up or down too much or you’ll switch to the wrong gear….no thanks. Maybe it’s not entry level for some, it’s entry level tech from a DF road bike point of view for sure. I’ve decided to go with a V20c frameset and add a Sram Force etap AXS groupset, with together is about the same as a full-built V20c…putting my 12-speed Zipp 404s, and I don't think I’ll have to upgrade that for a long while (if at all). During the course of this thread alone I’ve gone from dejected over my situation, to seeing it as an opportunity. Seriously psyched.

 

[gaspi101]

Yep, fast guys are going to be fast on anything they ride. I have never ridden a RWD recumbent, have only seen 2 Performers up close in person, but I won't slam any of them. I'll praise and will defend what I know and love, and try to keep bias out of my opinion as much as possible. If someone claims something opposite of what I experience then I will let them know so. I could probably harp on old Performers being bad for climbing and slow to accelerate but since I almost never climb I'd most likely sing it's praises on holding it's speed on the flats, and being very durable frames

Me too. There are objectively superior and inferior things in the world…but if people can’t adequately justify those objective criteria…that answers the question, doesn’t it.

 

[gaspi101]

I purchased a frameset which includes only the items shown plus bolts & nuts in bags.
Hydraulic brake/brifter systems come assembled, but if you need to thread the hose through anything (as shown in Robert’s video) then cutting is required. There are easy-to-follow videos by SRAM and others, you need to buy a brake bleed kit. Hose length for Cruzbikes is longer than diamond frames to account for the boom. Even if you’re going with cable actuated brakes you’ll need one-piece housing for each side.
You need the tools and some grease Robert mentioned, a bike stand is nice to have.
This is, of course, only if you get a frameset.

Thanks, man. I’ve reached out to my LBS and will have them build me the bike with a full Sram AXS groupset…better to pay some money and have it done right…. although I claim to be pretty handy, I have been known to screw things up from time to time….and I dont know nearly enough about these bikes

 

[Randyc3]

I’ve been riding a vendetta V20 for 8 years now, and I’m in my sixties. It took me 8 weeks and three crashes to rewire my brain enough to ride reasonably well. I built it up from a V20 frame kit, but used a Volae seat instead of the stock seat. I isolated the carbon fiber seat pan from the frame with hard rubber blocks and sorbothane, so it’s like riding on a cloud instead of riding an “ass hatchet”. I’ll never go back to a DF with its accompanying saddle sores, nerve damage, and butt pain.

I wear a normal cycling kit, and based on Larry’s recommendation, I started wearing a condom catheter years ago, and now I wear one for every ride. Now, every ride (weather permitting) is 100-miles or longer and I never stop to urinate. I usually do two or sometimes three 100-mile rides per week with no butt pain, no saddle sores, no nerve damage, and no lower back pain. I can train longer, get more fit, and not damage my body doing it. I have 35 centuries this year (2022) on real roads with real traffic and real A-holes already and will keep going until winter sets in.

I expect future improvements will perfect the design by using evolutionary engineering to optimize the design and a 3D printer to manufacture it using magnesium or some exotic material.

For safety, I have two mirrors on my handlebars (left and right) and front and rear daylight flashing lights. Mirrors and lights can save your life. I can always see behind myself on the Vendetta, unlike on a DF.

Hi, can you share some pictures of your seat mounting? This is one of my modifications items for the V20c. Kudos on the century rides!

 

[gaspi101]

I wear a normal cycling kit, and based on Larry’s recommendation, I started wearing a condom catheter years ago, and now I wear one for every ride. Now, every ride (weather permitting) is 100-miles or longer and I never stop to urinate.

ummmm…what

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

ummmm…what

Is there a question?

 

[gaspi101]

Is there a question?

Ok just searched the forum for “condom” and “catheter.” I…I’ve made a big mistake.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

Ok just searched the forum for “condom” and “catheter.” I…I’ve made a big mistake.

Distance guys wear condom catheters. If you’re in a distance race, you can’t just stop to pee whenever you need to without falling behind, but you still need to drink enough water to keep peeing. You don’t “have” to wear one, but it is definitely worth it. It’s like wearing spandex or shaving your legs. Serious cyclists do those things and think it’s normal, but non-cyclists think it’s weird.

 

[TransAm]

1) Is it a little “too” comfortable? Part of the beauty of the bike is pain. Good ol fashioned suffering through hard, hot, head-wind miles when you have no other choice...or are you just too damn comfy and fast on a V20 that you cant get to a good level of hurt? In other words, what would you say is the differential or perceived exertion (per mile or unit of time) of a V20 vs a regular roadbike? Sorry if that sounds weird.

Your legs should still hurt, but that's it.

I can certainly imagine the activity being less strenuous, but the question is whether by simply speeding up, that gap is bridged, and you get just as fatigued.

It doesn't get easier, you just get faster.