Leif
Active Member
Ok so after riding these bikes over the last few months almost everyday (sometimes both on the same day) on routes with lots of climbing (averaging 3000'), I think I'm ready to share my thoughts.
Disclaimer: I know there's lots of opinions /theories / experiences out there supported by empirical evidence, technical data etc., that might not jibe with my observations, so the following is just my opinion. My hope is to give insights on things I myself was interested in hearing before I pulled the trigger on a CB. It's been a thrilling learning curve, very enjoyable ride and in the final analysis, I'm glad to have finally taken the opportunity to see what the CB MBB design is all about.
Feel free to disagree.
First - Learning to ride.
I've thought about how to best convey my experience with learning to ride a CB and here's my best explanation:
Do you remember what it was like when you first learned how to ride a bike? When you finally didn't need training wheels, or dad running behind you in case you fell? You'd mastered balance, turning, starting and stopping and the bike was now more fun than terrifying to ride. Now imagine what it was like to get on the bike and ride at this stage in your experience. You could get on, push off and go, but control was a little wobbly-- but quickly got better with every ride.
This, for me, best approximates what learning to ride a CB is like. You already know about balance, pedaling etc., you just need a little time to adjust to controlling the bike. Not hard at all, for the S40 or the V20.
Second - Climbing.
Climbing has always been the most important part of cycling for me. Often, I have only a few hours each day during the week to ride and I feel that if that time is spent cranking up the hills, I'm getting a satisfying workout. I still ride uprights, mostly CX and MTB but have also owned almost every kind of recumbent, from fully suspended USS SWB to Carbon Fiber High Racers and with each bike I've owned, the ability to enjoy the climb has always dictated how often I'd ride it and whether or not I'd end up selling it.
Eventually, I sold all of my recumbents.
It's not that I couldn't climb with them, I could --- eventually---- after getting my "bent legs". But I could never fully accept that riding recumbents meant that I was always going to be restricted to using just my legs. (Again, I'm aware there's contrary opinions in this regard, please re-read my disclaimer).
So what's it like to climb with an V20 vs S40?
Surprisingly, very similar! Both bikes climb really well, certainly better than any other recumbent I've owned and very similar to uprights.
This really blew me away. I was expecting to feel there was some advantage with the s40 b/c of the seat angle, but no. The full body involvement, pulling on the bars while pushing the pedals and maintaining a rigid front end with the help of upper body & core muscles is almost identical for both bikes (mine have the same gearing, cranks, and wheels).
Interesting note: I don't know why but the V20 does not slip as much as the S40 on the climbs. I wish I had an explanation for this... wheelbase, rider weight distribution...? I just don't know.
If you want to climb, and are considering a recumbent, either bike is a great choice.
Third - Fit.
It took awhile to finally get the bikes adjusted to my proportions. This means the usual proper leg extension but also (and VERY importantly) the proper arm extension. For me, this means arms almost fully extend with only a slight bend at the elbow. Adjusted this way, I'm able to pull the bars and employ upper body muscles whenever necessary. Oh, and that's another thing... If you just want to use your legs to power down the road, you can. The bikes are very well balanced and track intuitively. More often than not, only slight arm input is sometimes required to keep the boom straight, but this takes very little effort and becomes almost unnoticeable.
I should also mention that I initially installed the "large" chain-stay on the V20. BIG MISTAKE!
I'll admit that my motivation for doing so was largely aesthetic as I really like the look (and supposed aerodynamic advantage) of the nearly horizontal booms I've seen on some Vendettas. I also rationalized that my longish xseam (47") would require a longer chain-stay, right? WRONG!
In short, for me, the large chain-stay made the bike uncomfortable and down-right dangerous!
The longer boom made getting the proper arm extension impossible, crowded the cockpit and created an uneasy flex at the front end which made the bike difficult to control and unpredictable. All of these things were immediately remedied when I replaced the large with a standard chain-stay.
And fit is also where the bikes differ most, specifically with the seat and headrest.
I've never been a fan of headrests so I was pleased to discover that I did not need one for the S40. The seat angle keeps my head well within the comfort zone for my neck and I do prefer the view at 40 degrees over 20. The biggest drawback to the V20's lower seat angle (for me) is the head/neck pounding one must endure when riding over rough terrain. This can be mitigated a little by lifting up out of the seat but is overall the most unpleasant part of the ride. I might go the Thor seat route but don't know if I'm ready to cut the upper seat mount tabs or keep the bike intact for future sale (so far, I'm keeping it!)
But seat angle is also responsible for the V20's biggest advantage over the S40 and that's SPEED. Bombing down hills and zooming over the flats and rollers is much faster on the V20 and I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with the aerodynamic advantage of the lower seat angle. If you're a speed demon (I'm not), the V20 is the CB for you. But be warned: It's scary fast! This bike wants to GO! and is not for the faint of heart. You really have to keep your wits about you when zipping down the road on the V20.
So to conclude, I really like both bikes. Sometimes when I'm riding one I'll think to myself, "Oh, I definitely like this one over the other because..." and then I'll ride the other and have a similar thought. They really are both a treat to ride with more in common than not. I'd say at this stage in my experience, both bikes climb equally well, the S40 is a more comfortable (mostly because I don't need the headrest) and has better visibility, the V20 is MUCH faster but has a bumpier ride (especially for the noggin) over the rough stuff and with every ride I enjoy both bikes more and more.
I'll definitely have more to say about both bikes in the near future but for now, thanks for reading and happy riding!
-Leif
Disclaimer: I know there's lots of opinions /theories / experiences out there supported by empirical evidence, technical data etc., that might not jibe with my observations, so the following is just my opinion. My hope is to give insights on things I myself was interested in hearing before I pulled the trigger on a CB. It's been a thrilling learning curve, very enjoyable ride and in the final analysis, I'm glad to have finally taken the opportunity to see what the CB MBB design is all about.
Feel free to disagree.
First - Learning to ride.
I've thought about how to best convey my experience with learning to ride a CB and here's my best explanation:
Do you remember what it was like when you first learned how to ride a bike? When you finally didn't need training wheels, or dad running behind you in case you fell? You'd mastered balance, turning, starting and stopping and the bike was now more fun than terrifying to ride. Now imagine what it was like to get on the bike and ride at this stage in your experience. You could get on, push off and go, but control was a little wobbly-- but quickly got better with every ride.
This, for me, best approximates what learning to ride a CB is like. You already know about balance, pedaling etc., you just need a little time to adjust to controlling the bike. Not hard at all, for the S40 or the V20.
Second - Climbing.
Climbing has always been the most important part of cycling for me. Often, I have only a few hours each day during the week to ride and I feel that if that time is spent cranking up the hills, I'm getting a satisfying workout. I still ride uprights, mostly CX and MTB but have also owned almost every kind of recumbent, from fully suspended USS SWB to Carbon Fiber High Racers and with each bike I've owned, the ability to enjoy the climb has always dictated how often I'd ride it and whether or not I'd end up selling it.
Eventually, I sold all of my recumbents.
It's not that I couldn't climb with them, I could --- eventually---- after getting my "bent legs". But I could never fully accept that riding recumbents meant that I was always going to be restricted to using just my legs. (Again, I'm aware there's contrary opinions in this regard, please re-read my disclaimer).
So what's it like to climb with an V20 vs S40?
Surprisingly, very similar! Both bikes climb really well, certainly better than any other recumbent I've owned and very similar to uprights.
This really blew me away. I was expecting to feel there was some advantage with the s40 b/c of the seat angle, but no. The full body involvement, pulling on the bars while pushing the pedals and maintaining a rigid front end with the help of upper body & core muscles is almost identical for both bikes (mine have the same gearing, cranks, and wheels).
Interesting note: I don't know why but the V20 does not slip as much as the S40 on the climbs. I wish I had an explanation for this... wheelbase, rider weight distribution...? I just don't know.
If you want to climb, and are considering a recumbent, either bike is a great choice.
Third - Fit.
It took awhile to finally get the bikes adjusted to my proportions. This means the usual proper leg extension but also (and VERY importantly) the proper arm extension. For me, this means arms almost fully extend with only a slight bend at the elbow. Adjusted this way, I'm able to pull the bars and employ upper body muscles whenever necessary. Oh, and that's another thing... If you just want to use your legs to power down the road, you can. The bikes are very well balanced and track intuitively. More often than not, only slight arm input is sometimes required to keep the boom straight, but this takes very little effort and becomes almost unnoticeable.
I should also mention that I initially installed the "large" chain-stay on the V20. BIG MISTAKE!
I'll admit that my motivation for doing so was largely aesthetic as I really like the look (and supposed aerodynamic advantage) of the nearly horizontal booms I've seen on some Vendettas. I also rationalized that my longish xseam (47") would require a longer chain-stay, right? WRONG!
In short, for me, the large chain-stay made the bike uncomfortable and down-right dangerous!
The longer boom made getting the proper arm extension impossible, crowded the cockpit and created an uneasy flex at the front end which made the bike difficult to control and unpredictable. All of these things were immediately remedied when I replaced the large with a standard chain-stay.
And fit is also where the bikes differ most, specifically with the seat and headrest.
I've never been a fan of headrests so I was pleased to discover that I did not need one for the S40. The seat angle keeps my head well within the comfort zone for my neck and I do prefer the view at 40 degrees over 20. The biggest drawback to the V20's lower seat angle (for me) is the head/neck pounding one must endure when riding over rough terrain. This can be mitigated a little by lifting up out of the seat but is overall the most unpleasant part of the ride. I might go the Thor seat route but don't know if I'm ready to cut the upper seat mount tabs or keep the bike intact for future sale (so far, I'm keeping it!)
But seat angle is also responsible for the V20's biggest advantage over the S40 and that's SPEED. Bombing down hills and zooming over the flats and rollers is much faster on the V20 and I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with the aerodynamic advantage of the lower seat angle. If you're a speed demon (I'm not), the V20 is the CB for you. But be warned: It's scary fast! This bike wants to GO! and is not for the faint of heart. You really have to keep your wits about you when zipping down the road on the V20.
So to conclude, I really like both bikes. Sometimes when I'm riding one I'll think to myself, "Oh, I definitely like this one over the other because..." and then I'll ride the other and have a similar thought. They really are both a treat to ride with more in common than not. I'd say at this stage in my experience, both bikes climb equally well, the S40 is a more comfortable (mostly because I don't need the headrest) and has better visibility, the V20 is MUCH faster but has a bumpier ride (especially for the noggin) over the rough stuff and with every ride I enjoy both bikes more and more.
I'll definitely have more to say about both bikes in the near future but for now, thanks for reading and happy riding!
-Leif
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