Vendetta frame life i.e well made tough as teak.

[jond]

I’m nearly three years in my new house where the view and fishing is a dream but the roads are pretty poor.

My terrible road concession to the vendetta v 20 was 28 mm tyres 70 psi and yoleo 50 mm carbon wheels. Plus an inner tube in the head rest. Comfy as. Almost as comfy as suspended challenge hurricane with balloon tyres.

Of all ten bikes in shed it’s the v20 which has accumulated most with nearly 26,000 klm with a further 17,000 klm on my now retired V2.2 vendetta.

The v20 looks as good as new. Beautiful. I’m a fair weather rider I admit but .....well

To say I’m impressed is an understatement. I know this bike is strong and well executed with sound heritage and engineering.

So how many klicks miles on your vendetta ?

And just how long can these beautiful tt bikes last. ?

Ps I know everyone’s conditions are different from road surface / trainer miles to rider traits. So variable inputs however.........

 

[Osiris]

So how many klicks miles on your vendetta ?

I got mine from Ben Tomblin who races for Cruzbike. No telling how many miles were already on it, but it showed very little evidence of wear.

And just how long can these beautiful tt bikes last. ?

With an aluminum frame, probably forever. Just keep replacing the disposable parts as they wear out, and you'll be able to pass it on to your grand children.

 

[Balor]

Carbon is forever (unless you crash it).
Aluminium is definitely not, unless massively overbuilt. Even steel/titanium to a lesser extent. Metal fatigue.

 

[Osiris]

Carbon is forever (unless you crash it).

Both the Trek and Specialized representatives informed me that carbon fiber has a limited life span. On my motorcycle, I noticed that the carbon fiber components started to discolor after about a year, and then began to crack in places.

Aluminium is definitely not, unless massively overbuilt. Even steel/titanium to a lesser extent. Metal fatigue.

I suppose it depends on a variety of factors, but I know one local riders who rides a bicycle made in 1941, which belonged to his grandfather. And of course there are still a few 1970's bikes ridden by local collectors, though I believe these are steel framed.

 

[Balor]

There were not aluminium framed bikes in 1941 And I'm following a blog of a welder who specialized in bicycle welding. let's put it this way: 95% of frames he welds are stress/fatigue fractures of aluminium frames. Usually a bike that underwent a few years of hard use develop multiple cranks simultaneously. And then keeps on cracking.

Steel (but, like I said, to a MUCH less extent) and even (or I daresay especially) titanium is prone to fatigue too - because it is extremely finicky to contaminations during welding.

Yet again, it all depends in rider weight, riding conditions, etc etc.

As for carbon - it can also accumulate small stress cracks and delaminations from hard impacts, but unlike metals it is not crystalline and does not have inherent weak points as grain interfaces. It is a reinforced POLYMER.

 

[jond]

I’m tipping metal fatigue will occur long after I’ve fatigued. Emotional tipping lol.

 

[bladderhead]

My Claud Butler was made before the company was sold. It had all the identifying features. Double-butted Reynolds 531. I lost it to thieves. I hope it broke.

 

[Robert Holler]

Carbon is forever (unless you crash it).
Aluminium is definitely not, unless massively overbuilt. Even steel/titanium to a lesser extent. Metal fatigue.

A good steel frame will last forever and can be fixed and recycled. An aluminum frame has a lifespan even with moderate use as the material can only take so many cycles. A CF frame "is forever" only in that it lasts and lasts and lasts just like nuclear waste in a landfill.

 

[bladderhead]

I wonder which is going to go first, Grasshopper or Silvio. Grasshopper had been cushioned by suspension but it is getting more stress now because of the Tannus tyres. It does clatter and shake now. I hope they both outlast me. I hope neither shatter under me while I am going downhill round a corner.

 

[Balor]

Well, it will be a while until we'll see dumpsters full of carbon frames... if I ever come near one, it will sure as hell NOT be full anymore

 

[DavidCH]

I've got 3 bikes and a T50 in the box. I wonder when the T50 is going to get light of day. Perhaps build it up and give it to someone in great need. Looking at the average size of people growing, it would be a thriving long term rental business. You can rent a Tesla model 3 for $350 a day... why not a cruzbike T50 for $3.50 a day. That way you could rent it out for 200 days... and after 2 years of that the income would be €1400... and if you did that with 5 bikes ... that would be €7000. The T50 seems to be well built so you might even get 20 years of life. So that could even be €70000. Now that could be a good retirement business.

I had some damage on a Chinese t700 carbon frame. Seat post damage to the frame. The Chinese company said it was paint damage where the screws tie up the seat stay. But 2 months on it looked even worse. I don't think the frame would have cracked but the seat post would become loose. Either way the manufacturer was good and deducucted $200 off a new frameset. So I spent an extra $300 and ended up with this. (Sorry you can't see it but there is a website issue with uploading files). The new frame is modulo t800 so much stiffer with internal cabling. Looks as though it will last 5 x longer than the modulo t700 frameset and it's much more aero. I reckon t1000 is stronger still but more brittle to fatigue.

That idea of the T50... has to be a win win. It would probably need a workshop somewhere and it would be based on a long term rental deal.

I don't like the mechanical twist shifter that most T50 owners have. Now the xshifter could be an option. I have moved the controller up on the other side of the boom just under the handlebar on the Vendetta. It's much more out of the wind and the bike is more balanced.

The idea of just pushing a button without having to exert any force or wobble is more than a pleasure... it makes it safer when going over 50kph.

Xshifter for a T50 is an interesting idea.

 

[Osiris]

If you read up on carbon fiber, it does say that the resin is subject to degradation over time, especially when exposed to UV rays. The clear coated CF parts on my motorcycle already showed signs of discoloration and cracking after only one year. Most CF frames these days come with a solid coat of paint on them to prevent UV damage.

Someone on another bike forum shared some correspondence he'd had with the manufacturer after reporting cracks in the frame. The manufacturer claimed that CF does have a limited life span and that his frame was already past that point, so they refused to warranty it. Trek is the only manufacturer I'm aware of which offers a lifetime warranty, although I'm told by a former manager that all this really means is that they'll replace the frame if it breaks, not that the frame will last forever. He himself mentioned having had to replace seven frames due to cracking, but it's not clear whether this was due to age or some other reason.

 

[Balor]

Carbon fiber cares not about UV rays. Unshielded epoxy does. And, yea, there are UV coatings available.

The manufacturer claimed that CF does have a limited life span

Lol. And do carbon frames have 'shelf life' as well? Best before date? He was lying though the teeth and you know it.
But as for frames used for racing 'aging' that kind of makes sense. Frames weighting less than one kg (sometimes much less) and subjected to all kind of crazy loads, road vibrations, undamped impacts, pileups...
Make it weight as much as one from aluminium and it will INDEED last forever, unless run over by a truck.

 

[tiltmaniac]

Materials are interesting.
It isn't so much about the failure, but more about how they fail.

Carbon fiber has some similar stress-fracture properties as Aluminum, worse in some respects as the crack tends to propagate faster that it likely would in aluminum (or steel or titanium).

This otherwise serious flaw is offset by the high strength to weight of the material.

Basically, most carbon frames are significantly overbuilt and so don't fatigue as fast as you'd otherwise expect.

 

[Balor]

Materials are interesting.
It isn't so much about the failure, but more about how they fail.

Carbon fiber has some similar stress-fracture properties as Aluminum, worse in some respects as the crack tends to propagate faster that it likely would in aluminum (or steel or titanium).

This otherwise serious flaw is offset by the high strength to weight of the material.

Basically, most carbon frames are significantly overbuilt and so don't fatigue as fast as you'd otherwise expect.

An interesting idea is to have a frame internally pressurised + some sensor built-in. Once a crack appear, pressure will dissipate and alarm will go off.

Also, internal pressure makes makes thin-walled frames less prone to 'beercanning' (for very same reasons as you cannot simply crush a full soda can, but easily - an empty one) - which should be particularly important for carbon frames.
Making DF frame would be very hard though, recumbent frame should be much easier...

 

[bladderhead]

you cannot simply crush a full soda can, but easily - an empty one

I always drink the beer before crushing the can.

 

[jond]

I wonder which is going to go first, Grasshopper or Silvio. Grasshopper had been cushioned by suspension but it is getting more stress now because of the Tannus tyres. It does clatter and shake now. I hope they both outlast me. I hope neither shatter under me while I am going downhill round a corner.

Tannus tyres on your grasshopper? Was this for flat protection ?

Wouldn’t a set of marathons or at the extreme marathon plus serve better. At 40 psi they are also comfy. And off very good to great flat protection.

 

[Robert Holler]

There will not likely be a CF recumbent from that weighs less than an aluminum one - and some steel ones can weigh less than either if they are made right. The CF ones that do exist flex like noodles. No thank you.

 

[Balor]

Why so? DF frames that weight about half as aluminum frames are definetely not 'noodles'. I have a cheap chinese carbon niner and I can tell that for sure. It does feature seat stays that are think and vertically flexible on purpose and it works.
'Magic' properties of CF like vibration dampening are certainly overblown (it is way inferior to, say, magnesium - unless in integrate damping interlayers into laminate), but unless you go out of your way to poorly design CF it would be impossible not to overbuild and make a TOO stiff CF frame that weights as much as from aluminum.

This video is particularly telling.

And thin-tubed steel frames were NOT light and very flexy and lead to shimmies at speed that are pretty much unheard of on modern bikes. Plus, making a frame from thin tubes is not a simple art...

 

[DavidCH]

flex like noodles

How about a titanium one?