Vendetta unboxing and build
- Thread starter fthills
- Start date
More pics
I'll see if I can upload more than one picture per post.
The boom components in their wrapping
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The frame components in their wrapping
The crown of the fork: This pic and the next is to show the excellent quality of the welding. Especially true of the boom and front triangle components
Someone posted there was no lumbar curve in the seat. This is not true . The seat does have a lumbar curve almost identical to the carbon seat on my rear drive recumbent. I would rather have a little less because i can always make it up with my own foam inserts.
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And finally the components that make up the framekit. Note spare container of paint next to the seat.
For me the aesthetic qualities are important even though they may not contribute to performance.
In particular , I really like the colour. On some pictures the V. looks yellow , in natural light its a rich yellow, maybe a touch of orange shade ,it has depth to it. Very nice. The paint is well applied , no runs anywhere. The front triangle: fork ,chainstay, boom ,bottom bracket are well built. Welding aluminium is a difficult art , someone with a lot of skill has welded these together. The fork is a beauty.
I'll follow with progress photos of the build , although it may take a few days , I have to borrow components from other bikes.
I'll see if I can upload more than one picture per post.
The boom components in their wrapping
The frame components in their wrapping
The crown of the fork: This pic and the next is to show the excellent quality of the welding. Especially true of the boom and front triangle components
Someone posted there was no lumbar curve in the seat. This is not true . The seat does have a lumbar curve almost identical to the carbon seat on my rear drive recumbent. I would rather have a little less because i can always make it up with my own foam inserts.
And finally the components that make up the framekit. Note spare container of paint next to the seat.
For me the aesthetic qualities are important even though they may not contribute to performance.
In particular , I really like the colour. On some pictures the V. looks yellow , in natural light its a rich yellow, maybe a touch of orange shade ,it has depth to it. Very nice. The paint is well applied , no runs anywhere. The front triangle: fork ,chainstay, boom ,bottom bracket are well built. Welding aluminium is a difficult art , someone with a lot of skill has welded these together. The fork is a beauty.
I'll follow with progress photos of the build , although it may take a few days , I have to borrow components from other bikes.
Seat and fork assembly
I prepared the frame by first making sure I could easily fit the bolts into the frame cleats. I used the bolts used to mount the head support to clear the cleats of a thin film of paint. Those bolts are a just a tiny whisker smaller than the bolts used to mount the seat.
I prepared the frame by first making sure I could easily fit the bolts into the frame cleats. I used the bolts used to mount the head support to clear the cleats of a thin film of paint. Those bolts are a just a tiny whisker smaller than the bolts used to mount the seat.
Preparing the frame
Proceed very slowly with those bolts , crossthreading would cause considerable problems. I use light pressure with my fingers to do that part. Roll the bolt very lightly as you would roll a pencil between your fingers clockwise and anticlockwise
No allen keys or screwdrivers . If it doesn't feel right don't force it. Then follow with a trial of the seat bolts , the ones that are 16mm long on the calipers,
and putting paper on the velcro ( great idea from the Cruzbike instructions) so you can align the seat easily over the frame cleats used to secure the seat.
I also made sure no velcro covers the hole on the seat pan part of the frame and use a razor blade very slowly and very carefully just enough to clear the hole.
Next bolt the seat on. I put washers under the bolt heads. no need to ,but thats just me
Before fitting the seat I slowly and carefully filed away some of the welding bead from the rear of the seat , but only at the points where the welding bead touches the frame. One is where the seat pan is welded to the back support and the other is slightly higher on the rear of the lumbar support. The seat profile and frame profile match exactly when these two small high spots are shaved away.
The seat /frame combination is very strong and very stiff. There is far less movement in this part of the assembly compared to my rear drive recumbent which has a carbon seat on the frame. Excellent.
And so to the fork/headset/top of steerer assembly.
Above the crown is the split aluminium ring then the bearing with the 45 degree part facing the head tube
This is the top part of the steerer , from right to left. Bearing , gold ring with the thin diameter bit fitting into the bearing, thin washer , dust cap which has a rubber washer in it . Make sure the whole of the rubber washer fits into the dust cap.
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The pivot clamp in place shows the top black surface is about 3mm above the silvery aluminium of the steerer. There is an extra starnut
provided in the framekit as a spare.
This is a temporary setup , to show what the bare frame looks like before I start adding components. The Vendetta frame is going together much more easily than the three other bikes I've built up as framesets , including the Silvio. The Vendetta boom for example is lighter and has fewer parts compared to the Silvio. Overall I'm very impressed.
Proceed very slowly with those bolts , crossthreading would cause considerable problems. I use light pressure with my fingers to do that part. Roll the bolt very lightly as you would roll a pencil between your fingers clockwise and anticlockwise
No allen keys or screwdrivers . If it doesn't feel right don't force it. Then follow with a trial of the seat bolts , the ones that are 16mm long on the calipers,
and putting paper on the velcro ( great idea from the Cruzbike instructions) so you can align the seat easily over the frame cleats used to secure the seat.
I also made sure no velcro covers the hole on the seat pan part of the frame and use a razor blade very slowly and very carefully just enough to clear the hole.
Next bolt the seat on. I put washers under the bolt heads. no need to ,but thats just me
Before fitting the seat I slowly and carefully filed away some of the welding bead from the rear of the seat , but only at the points where the welding bead touches the frame. One is where the seat pan is welded to the back support and the other is slightly higher on the rear of the lumbar support. The seat profile and frame profile match exactly when these two small high spots are shaved away.
The seat /frame combination is very strong and very stiff. There is far less movement in this part of the assembly compared to my rear drive recumbent which has a carbon seat on the frame. Excellent.
And so to the fork/headset/top of steerer assembly.
Above the crown is the split aluminium ring then the bearing with the 45 degree part facing the head tube
This is the top part of the steerer , from right to left. Bearing , gold ring with the thin diameter bit fitting into the bearing, thin washer , dust cap which has a rubber washer in it . Make sure the whole of the rubber washer fits into the dust cap.
The pivot clamp in place shows the top black surface is about 3mm above the silvery aluminium of the steerer. There is an extra starnut
provided in the framekit as a spare.
This is a temporary setup , to show what the bare frame looks like before I start adding components. The Vendetta frame is going together much more easily than the three other bikes I've built up as framesets , including the Silvio. The Vendetta boom for example is lighter and has fewer parts compared to the Silvio. Overall I'm very impressed.
component mounting
I decided to transfer my Rotor MTB Cranks , ovalized chainrings , and rotor ceramic bottom bracket to the V. The cups of the Rotor bottom bracket are 0.5 mm wider than the recommended 44mm and it is a tight fit inside the chainstay rings. Better if at all possible to stay with John's recommened 44mm outside diameter ,or, if you don't mind spoiling the look of the BB filing away 0.25 mm evenly from the widest point of these bearings, to make them fit easily. These ceramic bottom brackets are very very good. They spin so well when the chainrings are unloaded compared to my Shimano Deore BBs ,its very impressive.
I decided to transfer my Rotor MTB Cranks , ovalized chainrings , and rotor ceramic bottom bracket to the V. The cups of the Rotor bottom bracket are 0.5 mm wider than the recommended 44mm and it is a tight fit inside the chainstay rings. Better if at all possible to stay with John's recommened 44mm outside diameter ,or, if you don't mind spoiling the look of the BB filing away 0.25 mm evenly from the widest point of these bearings, to make them fit easily. These ceramic bottom brackets are very very good. They spin so well when the chainrings are unloaded compared to my Shimano Deore BBs ,its very impressive.
chain rings continued
Once I mounted the right pedal and then the left I sadly encountered a problem which is specific to internal diameter of my smallest (inner chainring) of the triple setup.
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This photo is taken looking at the smallest chainring .Its a Rotor ovalized 23 tooth ring . It won't fit over the frame's chainstay locking rings.
The inner ring internal diameter is 50mm. The frames rings are 53 mm when fitted to my BB cups and in some parts a bit wider than that.
What this means is that for people contemplating a triple chainring setup . , you cannot use the Rotor 23 tooth ovalized chainring. I'll have to investigate what other inner rings I can use , that have at least a 55 mm inner diameter and/ or don't have a spider that overlaps the frames chainstay rings. I don't think I'll be able to find one with 23 teeth though. Its a shame because I like the rotor MTB triple cranks , well made , strong , value for money.
Let's see if I can find something suitable
Once I mounted the right pedal and then the left I sadly encountered a problem which is specific to internal diameter of my smallest (inner chainring) of the triple setup.
This photo is taken looking at the smallest chainring .Its a Rotor ovalized 23 tooth ring . It won't fit over the frame's chainstay locking rings.
The inner ring internal diameter is 50mm. The frames rings are 53 mm when fitted to my BB cups and in some parts a bit wider than that.
What this means is that for people contemplating a triple chainring setup . , you cannot use the Rotor 23 tooth ovalized chainring. I'll have to investigate what other inner rings I can use , that have at least a 55 mm inner diameter and/ or don't have a spider that overlaps the frames chainstay rings. I don't think I'll be able to find one with 23 teeth though. Its a shame because I like the rotor MTB triple cranks , well made , strong , value for money.
Let's see if I can find something suitable
Its just occured to me,
Its just occured to me, looking at the second last photo of the caliper on the chainring that i wo'nt be able to use any inner chainring that fits a 64 BCD sized setup , because even the ring was wider , the chainring bolts will not fit over the frame. I have a campagnolo triple on the Silvio but they fit on an ISIS bottom bracket and are therefore not suitable for the V. Apparently Campagnolo are bringing out a new line of triples which is compatible with their external BB but they are not in the shops yet . And of course I need to get the V on the road asap.
Its just occured to me, looking at the second last photo of the caliper on the chainring that i wo'nt be able to use any inner chainring that fits a 64 BCD sized setup , because even the ring was wider , the chainring bolts will not fit over the frame. I have a campagnolo triple on the Silvio but they fit on an ISIS bottom bracket and are therefore not suitable for the V. Apparently Campagnolo are bringing out a new line of triples which is compatible with their external BB but they are not in the shops yet . And of course I need to get the V on the road asap.
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Hi,
I am not at all an
Hi,
I am not at all an expert, but I had a similar problem with putting a triple on my Sofrider and I got around it by using a wider bottom bracket. I don't know if anything appropriate fits for the level of components you would want to put on a Vendetta, but I would think you could find something.
Cheers,
Charles
I am not at all an
Hi,
I am not at all an expert, but I had a similar problem with putting a triple on my Sofrider and I got around it by using a wider bottom bracket. I don't know if anything appropriate fits for the level of components you would want to put on a Vendetta, but I would think you could find something.
Cheers,
Charles
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
Offset the chainstay, possibly
It is possible to offset the chainstay to the left by a few mm. We have done this and have not detected any disadvantages.
It is possible to offset the chainstay to the left by a few mm. We have done this and have not detected any disadvantages.
Hi John And Charles,
Thank
Hi John And Charles,
Thank you for your suggestions. I tried the shift to the left of the chainstay so that I had about one quarter of the bearing cup uncovered
and shimmed the bearing cup with some spacers that came in the box supplied by Rotor , but unfortunately it means the axle doesn't fully engage on the non drive side with the splines in the pedal. I didn't measure it , but I'd estimate the axle is about 1 cm too short with this arrangement , and didn't pursue it. Its no big deal , I really like the Agilis cranks but that doesn't mean there aren't other triple setups just as good.
Charles there are wider bottom brackets which I think are used in downhill racers . The standard road BB is 68mm, from memory the downhill ones are 83mm wide, but then I wonder if they have to use cranks with an integrated axle that is longer than the typical integrated road axle in order to fully engage the left pedal . I'll look into it.
Thank
Hi John And Charles,
Thank you for your suggestions. I tried the shift to the left of the chainstay so that I had about one quarter of the bearing cup uncovered
and shimmed the bearing cup with some spacers that came in the box supplied by Rotor , but unfortunately it means the axle doesn't fully engage on the non drive side with the splines in the pedal. I didn't measure it , but I'd estimate the axle is about 1 cm too short with this arrangement , and didn't pursue it. Its no big deal , I really like the Agilis cranks but that doesn't mean there aren't other triple setups just as good.
Charles there are wider bottom brackets which I think are used in downhill racers . The standard road BB is 68mm, from memory the downhill ones are 83mm wide, but then I wonder if they have to use cranks with an integrated axle that is longer than the typical integrated road axle in order to fully engage the left pedal . I'll look into it.
Brief update
I went looking in my collection of bits and found a triple with a 110/74 BCD. It doesn't quite fit without snagging on the chainstay lockring. More precisely it fits almost all the way round the chainstay lockring except where the ring is just a bit thicker to accomodate the screw that tightens the lockring.
I stand corrected on this point but my conclusion is that a triple cannot be fitted to the V using standard components, because the inner ring is too close to the frame and impinges on a small part of it.
There is a solution however, I think. Rotor make a double chainring crankset for MTB which will allow me to have a granny gear of 27 teeth. Its on a 74 BCD . However the chainrings (as far as I can make out) are far enough to the outside of the bottom bracket that it shouldn't be a problem. The other option is to buy an off the shelf granny ring and see if it'll all fit nicely on a compact double crankset.
If anybody is wondering why I'm pursuing this granny gear business : I'm a hopeless climber and so I almost always come in ,just in the nick of time on hilly brevets .Not a problem for the short brevets but on the longer 600km to 1200km ones, I hardly ever get any sleep.
I went looking in my collection of bits and found a triple with a 110/74 BCD. It doesn't quite fit without snagging on the chainstay lockring. More precisely it fits almost all the way round the chainstay lockring except where the ring is just a bit thicker to accomodate the screw that tightens the lockring.
I stand corrected on this point but my conclusion is that a triple cannot be fitted to the V using standard components, because the inner ring is too close to the frame and impinges on a small part of it.
There is a solution however, I think. Rotor make a double chainring crankset for MTB which will allow me to have a granny gear of 27 teeth. Its on a 74 BCD . However the chainrings (as far as I can make out) are far enough to the outside of the bottom bracket that it shouldn't be a problem. The other option is to buy an off the shelf granny ring and see if it'll all fit nicely on a compact double crankset.
If anybody is wondering why I'm pursuing this granny gear business : I'm a hopeless climber and so I almost always come in ,just in the nick of time on hilly brevets .Not a problem for the short brevets but on the longer 600km to 1200km ones, I hardly ever get any sleep.
mickjordan
Well-Known Member
BREVETS
I love my triple on my road bike and I went with the triple on my Silvio. I am hoping that I can increase my average speed on brevets on a Cruzbike for similar reasons to you (plus reduce the neck/butt and hand pain). Curious why you chose the Vendetta for long brevets though. The ability of the Silvio to take a rack seems pretty important. Where are you going to put your stuff on the Vendetta?
Mick
I love my triple on my road bike and I went with the triple on my Silvio. I am hoping that I can increase my average speed on brevets on a Cruzbike for similar reasons to you (plus reduce the neck/butt and hand pain). Curious why you chose the Vendetta for long brevets though. The ability of the Silvio to take a rack seems pretty important. Where are you going to put your stuff on the Vendetta?
Mick
Hi Mick, its about the
Hi Mick, its about the average speed mainly. Since the brevets around here are hilly , and so slow my average down considerably, the most I've slept on say a 600km brevet is an hour and a half for a 40 hour brevet . Managed to finish on time, which is ok, but doesn't leave much in reserve particularly if the distances are greater. Plus seeing my fellow riders go off in the distance at the first climb is discouraging. But I take your point about limited space in the boot. Typically I travel light on a long brevet , a few spares, some food, something warm to change into, space blanket, and a minimum of 3 litres of water. I haven't thought yet how this is going to pan out on the V.
Hi Mick, its about the average speed mainly. Since the brevets around here are hilly , and so slow my average down considerably, the most I've slept on say a 600km brevet is an hour and a half for a 40 hour brevet . Managed to finish on time, which is ok, but doesn't leave much in reserve particularly if the distances are greater. Plus seeing my fellow riders go off in the distance at the first climb is discouraging. But I take your point about limited space in the boot. Typically I travel light on a long brevet , a few spares, some food, something warm to change into, space blanket, and a minimum of 3 litres of water. I haven't thought yet how this is going to pan out on the V.
mickjordan
Well-Known Member
Where are you?
Curious where you are? I am in the SF Bay Area and everything around here is pretty hilly, especially the San Francisco Randonneurs rides, which are closest to me.
Curious where you are? I am in the SF Bay Area and everything around here is pretty hilly, especially the San Francisco Randonneurs rides, which are closest to me.
Brief update
Sometimes things just fall into place. When Doug Burton posted Monday , in the Sofrider mods forum ,that on a V one triple chainring combo that will fit is an Ultegra triple. So , I log onto the local ebay , and whaddya know , in four hours an Ultegra Triple Chainset is going under the hammer ,
I turn out to be the only bidder . Payed for it on Tuesday , arrives on my doorstep early this morning , and am able to start the modifications this afternoon.
Here is the inner 30 tooth chainring with the two tangs at the 11 and 1 o'clock position cut to make them shorter so they fit over the bottom bracket assembly. A few things worth mentioning .Alloy chainrings are soft ,I used a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade to make the initial rough cuts. I advance through the metal ,at a snails pace along a predrawn scratch as can be seen at the 8 and 6 o'clock position. I used a fine file , and sanded with emery paper down to final dimensions. I cut and fitted about three times.
And this is the end result. I've posted this picture to show how much of the tangs I ended up taking off to achieve a comfortable clearance of the BB assembly. A whisker under 4mm from the edge of the bolt hole to the edge of the tang. It could quite easily come down to 3mm if necessary . This still gives an ample surface for the bolt head to anchor the chainringon the spider.
The chainring bolts on this Ultegra setup need a T30 Torx head
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
The T30 size is available on many of the new Multitool kits we carry in our saddle bags
A 5mm allen key will fit but its loose and risks stripping the internals of the bolt, and if this happens the length of these bolts is not what I'm used to and could be tricky to source if damaged. A bit of a wait now for the remaining parts to arrive.
Meantime ,many thanks to Doug Burton for the heads up on the Ultegra triple.
Sometimes things just fall into place. When Doug Burton posted Monday , in the Sofrider mods forum ,that on a V one triple chainring combo that will fit is an Ultegra triple. So , I log onto the local ebay , and whaddya know , in four hours an Ultegra Triple Chainset is going under the hammer ,
I turn out to be the only bidder . Payed for it on Tuesday , arrives on my doorstep early this morning , and am able to start the modifications this afternoon.
Here is the inner 30 tooth chainring with the two tangs at the 11 and 1 o'clock position cut to make them shorter so they fit over the bottom bracket assembly. A few things worth mentioning .Alloy chainrings are soft ,I used a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade to make the initial rough cuts. I advance through the metal ,at a snails pace along a predrawn scratch as can be seen at the 8 and 6 o'clock position. I used a fine file , and sanded with emery paper down to final dimensions. I cut and fitted about three times.
And this is the end result. I've posted this picture to show how much of the tangs I ended up taking off to achieve a comfortable clearance of the BB assembly. A whisker under 4mm from the edge of the bolt hole to the edge of the tang. It could quite easily come down to 3mm if necessary . This still gives an ample surface for the bolt head to anchor the chainringon the spider.
The chainring bolts on this Ultegra setup need a T30 Torx head
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
The T30 size is available on many of the new Multitool kits we carry in our saddle bags
A 5mm allen key will fit but its loose and risks stripping the internals of the bolt, and if this happens the length of these bolts is not what I'm used to and could be tricky to source if damaged. A bit of a wait now for the remaining parts to arrive.
Meantime ,many thanks to Doug Burton for the heads up on the Ultegra triple.
Torx in multitools
I was wrong when I said many multitools carry the Torx 30 . The more common size is T 25, only a few multitools have several Torx heads including the 30 size. My multitool is ten years old and has none, which is why I went looking. To work on the chainring I used a standalone T30 fitting.
I was wrong when I said many multitools carry the Torx 30 . The more common size is T 25, only a few multitools have several Torx heads including the 30 size. My multitool is ten years old and has none, which is why I went looking. To work on the chainring I used a standalone T30 fitting.
V. short progress report.
For anyone considering buying a frameset , when you buy your brakes for the V. make sure you buy a a long nut, with >20mm of thread for the front brake . Your brakes may have a 27mm nut in the box but if they don't yourr local bike shop may have them ( none of my locals do ) they only cost $5 and can be ordered online . I had an 18mm nut but it only grips the pivot bolt about 2 turns which I don't think is enough. On the two sets of spare front brakes I own , the exposed part of the pivot bolt is 27 mm long and , for reference the crown is 40mm deep from front to back.
After playing with different brake locations , I'm going to mount some conventional caliper rear brakes on the seat stay bridge but with the brakes mounted under the bridge rather than above it. That way the brake cable run will be straighter in the rear triangle . The seat stays look mighty strong.
For anyone considering buying a frameset , when you buy your brakes for the V. make sure you buy a a long nut, with >20mm of thread for the front brake . Your brakes may have a 27mm nut in the box but if they don't yourr local bike shop may have them ( none of my locals do ) they only cost $5 and can be ordered online . I had an 18mm nut but it only grips the pivot bolt about 2 turns which I don't think is enough. On the two sets of spare front brakes I own , the exposed part of the pivot bolt is 27 mm long and , for reference the crown is 40mm deep from front to back.
After playing with different brake locations , I'm going to mount some conventional caliper rear brakes on the seat stay bridge but with the brakes mounted under the bridge rather than above it. That way the brake cable run will be straighter in the rear triangle . The seat stays look mighty strong.
Hi unc99. Thank you.There's
Hi unc99. Thank you.There's been a bit of a hiatus in updates and pics mainly because I'm waiting for parts and partly to solve one or two problems , not with the kit but in the way I want to configure the cockpit. For example the first set of handlebars I bought are just a little to narrow.
When I bought the frame my thinking was I would transfer parts from other bikes, but when I started working on it, I decided this frame deserves the best I can afford.
So new parts ,some of them sourced ,for price reasons ,from overseas. And for the first time ever I'm considering splashing out on exotic parts like this http://eecycleworks.com/eebrake.html
I don't know what the bike will be like to ride but I've put some temporary wheels on and the handlebar (Salsa woodchipper ) , nothing else so far. I've leaned it up against the lounge room wall and much to my wife's dismay I spend time admiring it. . Its sweeping ,clean lines , the colour , the curved nose and the engineering touches like the front triangle do a lot for my sense of aesthetics.
I might go and take some photos now .
Hi unc99. Thank you.There's been a bit of a hiatus in updates and pics mainly because I'm waiting for parts and partly to solve one or two problems , not with the kit but in the way I want to configure the cockpit. For example the first set of handlebars I bought are just a little to narrow.
When I bought the frame my thinking was I would transfer parts from other bikes, but when I started working on it, I decided this frame deserves the best I can afford.
So new parts ,some of them sourced ,for price reasons ,from overseas. And for the first time ever I'm considering splashing out on exotic parts like this http://eecycleworks.com/eebrake.html
I don't know what the bike will be like to ride but I've put some temporary wheels on and the handlebar (Salsa woodchipper ) , nothing else so far. I've leaned it up against the lounge room wall and much to my wife's dismay I spend time admiring it. . Its sweeping ,clean lines , the colour , the curved nose and the engineering touches like the front triangle do a lot for my sense of aesthetics.
I might go and take some photos now .
