yet another Silvio build thread

[timt]

It's sunny and 26 degrees F, so I decided to take the new wheels out for a spin.

OK, I was itching to get started and all I have so far is wheels and a couple of Zefal spy's. So off to the LBS for tubes and tires.

The frame cleared customs yesterday in Chicago. With any luck, I can start assembly next weekend.

I have a little time before the shoulders of the road are clear of the white stuff anyway.


alt="aero67 wheelset"

 

[Eric Winn]

Tim, what size are those

Tim, what size are those tires?

-Eric

 

[timt]

the tires are 25 mm

The tires are 25mm. I looked up your gator hardshells, and decided to go with the next version down the list, which trades a little protection for a little sidewall flexibility.

25mm tires may not be necessary with the Silvio suspension, but coming from a mountain bike background, 23mm just seems too skinny.


At the risk of causing drift in my own thread,
Nice Sebring run, Eric. I see you took first in your age bracket on a recumbent for the 24 hours.

 

[Doug Burton]

25mm's should work very well...

The only reason I'm not running them is they weren't available at the LBS when I built my Silvio 2.0.

28mm x 700c is the widest tire we can consistently run on the Silvio 2.0 - 2.1, because tire cross section variability can cause the tire to hit several parts of the front and rear forks.

The Gatorskin line are excellent tires. You should be very happy with them.

I share your enthusiasm with Eric's run. The Parkers have been very effective at accumulating course and world records. I want other folks to add their names to the Cruzbike record book.

Cheers,

Doug

 

[Robert Holler]

25mm Tires are nearly perfect

25mm Tires are nearly perfect for a Silvio (or Vendetta for that matter) Just enough clearance and the ride is very plush on the Silvio compared to my former highracers.

I am running Panaracers in 25mm and they are great.

 

[timt]

received a box today

The frame arrived today.
Order placed Saturday Feb 8
Wheels received Wednesday Feb 12
Frame received Tuesday Feb 18
Subtract 5 days for weekends and presidents day, and that's pretty good time from Taiwan to Detroit via customs in Chicago.

The box is a little dented, but there's no major damage. Its amazing how much stuff is packed in that box, a lot of it being bubble-wrap and foam.

Inspection of the parts shows nothing to worry about, just a couple of expected grumbles. :
- minor scuff on the seat pan, but I won't be looking under the pad much.
- Seat back to pan fastener holes probably need a little adjustment.
- Velcro on the frame will require adjustment. Didn't check the seat velcro.

I'll start fitting pieces together tomorrow night.

alt="Silvio shipping box"

 

[Eric Winn]

Woot - glad you are close. I

Woot - glad you are close. I still haven't seen the new one in person. When it gets warmer and more kind outside we can go for a ride and compare.

-Eric

 

[timt]

There are a few things to be done first

Sounds like a plan, Eric. I expect to have the bike functional before the weather cooperates.
You are about a 25 minute drive, or a water refill stop at 30 miles.

 

[timt]

I started fitting pieces together last night

I started fitting pieces together last night. Once I've test fitted and tweaked everything, I'll assemble it for real. The Ratz guide and Ivan's photos nicely supplement the Cruzbike instructions.

Things are going pretty smoothly. These are the extra steps I have taken to enable assembly or improve fit, and a couple of items that required extra time or thought. None of these items are unique to my bike.

• The joint between the seat back and seat pan required a little filing and sanding to fit smoothly. I had to elongate one of the holes in the seat pan 1.5mm.
• Frame velcro- removed and repositioned.
• Seat pan and seat back velcro, removed and repositioned.
• The rear CF stay required a hole repositioning on one side where it joins the "seatstay". It took about was about 1mm of filing on one side of the hole.
• Getting the head rest into position with the rubber sleeves under the clamps is a little fiddly and frustrating, but possible. Back the clamp bolt until none of it is sticking out of far side of the clamp, put A little soap on the OUTSIDE of the rubber, and reach into the frame to wiggle the clamp as you work the head rest in. The headrest is not coming out again unless I'm forced to remove it.
• Which end is which on the rear suspension elastomer? This one is answered in the Ratz guide.

When I get my next chance to work on the bike, I'll check the rear CF stay to frame fit and start fitting the front triangle.

Pictures will wait until I have the frame together in a few days, discover a new problem, or can't figure something out.

 

[mzweili]

I started the frame assembly

''The rear CF stay required a hole repositioning on one side where it joins the "seatstay". It took about was about 1mm of filing on one side of the hole.''
I had exactly the same problem on my frame assembly this week.

''Getting the head rest into position with the rubber sleeves under the clamps is a little fiddly and frustrating, but possible.''
Are these rubber sleeves really thought to go under the scissors clamps? I couldn't get them in.

I got a small bottle of a dark blue liquid (xylene). Can someone tell me what this is for?

 

[timt]

a little more progress

Mounted the rear triangle.
Mounted the fork (still must adjust the headset preload)
Assembled the front CF stay to the BB clamp and the dropouts.
It looks a lot like a bike now.

Mzweili,
If you read about other's builds, it's pretty common that the holes in the CF stays need a little bit of adjustment to get the fasteners through. That little bit of adjustment is the price of tight clearances (instead of a sloppy fit). I filed 7 of the 8 holes. It seemed safer than the big hammer method. None of the the items I mentioned above are unique to my frame. Fortunately they are all easy to deal with.

Little bottle. The goop inside looks black to me, and smells like model paint. I think that's a bottle of touch-up paint. Xylene is probably a solvent in the paint.

Rubber sleeves on the headrest tube - I hope they are intended to go under the clamps. If not, I wasted a lot of extra time fiddling them into place.

 

[mzweili]

I STARTED THE FRAME ASSEMBLY

The assembly notes state:
6) Check the Pivot Clamp sits at least 2mm higher than the steerer.
On my frame it was almost at the same level, so I couldn't adjust the steerer assembly properly.
I had to shorten the fork steerer tube by 2mm.
I could have made a bigger fork clamp spacer, but it took less time to cut the tube.
I shortened also the boom by 50mm to adjust to my leg length as described on page 10 of the assembly notes.
Probably the boom length was specified before Cruzbike decided to add threaded inserts on the slider for a bottle support.
All these are minor adjustments that let you better know your new bike ;-)

 

[timt]

continued progress

The frame is assembled about as far as I can go without my groupset. Anything look wrong?

The blue stripe on the slider is a piece of tape positioned to hold the bottom bracket roughly where I think it will end up when I have a crank on the bike.There's a piece of plastic rod through the BB tube keeping the clamps roughly concentric with the BB tube.?

• I added a headset spacer to address the steerer tube height mentioned by mzweili. I had a 5mm on hand and will see if i can track down a 2.5mm or 3mm to replace the 5mm. I don't trust myself to not mess up taking a blade's width of material off the end of a tube.
• I will need to shorten the boom a little bit. The calculation in the instructions suggests that I need to make the boom/slider combo about 19mm less than I can compress it without cutting. Putting the BB at my best guess for proper leg extension without a crank puts the bars a little closer than I think I want them. I have long arms. Once I figure out crank positioning, I'll have to balance arm stretch against knee clearance. I'll have to look through the various Silvio and Vendetta photos looking at people's arm positions with hands in the drops and up on the hoods.

Next steps-

• Consider the 74 vs. 92 bcd triple compromise for the 17th time.
• order the group set
• Struggle with the bar tape color decision.
• Order accessories blinker, cyclecomputer, bag, other accessories.
• stick the seat pads on.
• adjust positioning of the head rest.
• wait impatiently for the next parts delivery and for the glaciers to recede.

alt="assembled frame"

 

[Rick Youngblood]

~mzweili - On my frame it was

~mzweili - On my frame it was almost at the same level, so I couldn't adjust the steerer assembly properly.

Mine was about a mm higher, so I added a 2mm spacer - I have a bag of different sized spacer, they sure come in handy.

~ Tim - Consider the 74 vs. 92 bcd triple compromise for the 17th time.

Tim, if you have the option, a 92 bcd for the granny ring would be the best way to go, and of course if you can live with 30t granny. I made my existing 74 bcd granny work with 3mm spindle spacers and a little offset of the BB clamp. The important factor when doing this hack, is to make sure you have enough spindle to make a good connection of the non-drive crank arm.

 

[Eric Winn]

Coming to the Waterford HPV

Coming to the Waterford HPV races in May? We can try and trounce the field.

-Eric

 

[timt]

Waterford? maybe as a spectator.

Eric-
Waterford looks like an interesting event. I'll have to find an appropriate piece of road (no stops) and see what I can do in 1 hour with the Silvio.

Last year's goal was to get back on the bike after too many years of just doing rides with the kids.
This year's goal is to increase my miles. If I can get a bunch of 50-70 milers in first, figure out the feeding and watering requirements, and work out the logistics, I'm considering the Grayling to Oscoda century July 27. http://www.blackbearbicycletour.com/
Next year's goal might be speed.

I went out for a 16 miler yesterday on the DF road bike. low 30's, sunny, 20+mph gusts, dodging puddles, potholes, and patches of ice on the road. I felt a little silly riding past the kids sledding in the park. Pedaling in the basement has helped with the cardio, but I have some rebuilding to do once the spring hits.


Rick-
I re-read the threads on triples yesterday, and I'm sticking with my plan to use the 92bcd 6703 ultegra group. The crank offset necessary for the 74BCD bothers me aesthetically. If I need a lower gear, I can put on a big cassette and swap the rear derailleur for the 9 speed mtb part I have in the basement. Apparently Shimano 9 speed mtb derailleurs are compatible (cable pull) with Shimano 10 speed road shifters.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

~Tim, Apparently Shimano 9

~Tim, Apparently Shimano 9 speed mtb derailleurs are compatible (cable pull) with Shimano 10 speed road shifters.

Yes Tim, I've done it recently - and then there is always this option: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/General-Lee-Wide-range-Cassette-Adapter-First-Look-2013.html - the General Lee - they have one for Sram and Shimano cassettes - it just keeps get'n better.

 

[timt]

about 95% now

I'm about 95% now on the build. I'd say it's ready for a test ride as soon as the weather cooperates. I want a non-snowy parking lot for that first day. All that is left to put on is bar tape and accessories (tail light, mirrors, computer, something to carry my water, tools, etc.). Bar tape will wait until I try the bike and decide the brifters are correctly positioned.

That's the dark gray Ultegra 6703 10 speeed triple gruppo. I have an 11-28 cassette for the moment. Chain is SRAM. Cables and housings are Jagwire Sport. The pedals are an old set of platforms I had in the junk pile. After I develop some confidence, I'll put Shimano PD-M540 SPD's on the bike.

Here's the stuff I've worked out in the last week.
1- 92 BCD granny gear modified to fit over the BB clamps. Put a couple of photos in the triple crank thread. http://www.cruzbike.com/74mm-bcd-inner-ring-silvio-2.0#comment-25722
2- Front brake- had to make a 7mm spacer to position the caliper far enough forward of the fork that the pads would clear the fork. I also needed a spacer in the hole in the back of the fork (or find a shorter nut). Half inch aluminum bar from the hardware store worked well for spacers.
3- Fitting the cassette to the rear hub. If I used the spacer ring that goes behind the cassette, the chain dragged on the fork in high gear. If I deleted the ring, the sprockets were loose. After some head scratching, I filed a about .5mm off the base of the splines (about half the thickness of the spacer ring) so that the cassette sits .5mm closer to the spokes. I have the spacer in place now, the cassette is snugged tight, and there's clearance between the chain and fork. Maybe a thinner spacer would have worked just as well.
4- what to use to cover the FD cable around the BB? I didn't have any of the liner tube many others use. Shifter cable housing is too stiff. I used a short piece of brake cable housing.

Mother Nature refreshed my backdrop last night.
alt="silvio"

with a different backdrop, my version of "The Wall"

alt="silvio brick wall"

 

[Jeremy S]

3- Fitting the cassette to

3- Fitting the cassette to the rear hub. If I used the spacer ring that goes behind the cassette, the chain dragged on the fork in high gear. If I deleted the ring, the sprockets were loose. After some head scratching, I filed a about .5mm off the base of the splines (about half the thickness of the spacer ring) so that the cassette sits .5mm closer to the spokes. I have the spacer in place now, the cassette is snugged tight, and there's clearance between the chain and fork. Maybe a thinner spacer would have worked just as well.

I had this problem (chain rubbing on the fork). Eventually I put a 1mm spacer just inside the fork.

 

[timt]

4.8 miles today

Low 40's and sunny so I left work a little early to try the bike.
i watched the youtube of Jim Parker rolling around in his driveway then went out to my driveway.
I told my son I'd start out overconfident, then do what the video recommended.

Put my left foot on the pedal, pushed, and the front wheel turned right. There went the overconfidence.

On to basics. Flintstoned a few small loops in the driveway. Then while still rolling I put my feet on the pedals and did a loop around the block splashing through puddles and dodging the patches of melting ice. Generally went where I wanted to go, but every now and then the bike decided to turn. I need to be more attentive to my pushing the bars.

One neighbor suggested I'd built the bike wrong.

Second and 3rd lap, stopped and started again several times. Started sitting up now and then for tighter turns. Did a bunch of loops and 8's. This bike is much easier to U-turn on narrow streets than my V3.

4th time around, I left my neighborhood and went down the road to the next neighborhood. They have a slight grade so I was able to do a few uphill starts. Unfortunately they also have a 100 yard long, 3" thick layer of ice in the back of the neighborhood. Lots more practice stopping, flintstoning to the next clear patch, starting. Back down the road to my neighborhood. I appreciated the rear suspension on that cracked road.
On the return trip I put my hands up on the hoods and pulled instead of pushing in the drops. I was more comfortable getting my speed up that way. Back into the drops for the turns in my neighborhood. Finished the loop, parked the bike, etc.

I'm feeling it in the arms and hands now.
I really missed my clipless pedals, but it's probably best that I didn't have them on the bike today.
I kept my speed down around 10-12mph. I'll pick the speed up after another session or two with more experience and better roads.
It's a good thing I learned to ride my V3 last year. The experience is still fairly fresh and I knew I couldn't just jump on the bike and go.
This bike is a lot more stable at low speed than the V3. There's still a tendency to go sideways, but it's more easily corrected.
Overall, I'm not at all displeased. It'll take a little practice but this bike has possibilities.

I'll have to do a little cable adjusting. I started getting phantom rear shifts after the cables stretched and settled in.
have to think about higher or wider positioning for the spy mirrors. I was seeing too much of my shoulders.