Diet: Low Carb and Ultra Cycling

[ratz]

Please read this first post before replying to this thread. Failure to do so may result in your reply being moved to it's own thread. We don't delete posts in almost all cases unless requested to by the poster; but we do occasionally move them to improve thread integrity, but even then it's rare. This thread and other like it to come, may be the exception.

It's become clear we need a good safe place to discuss diet strategies here in the forums both for general members trying to get fit and for our racing sub community. The problem with those discussions are that humans are varied and different things work for different people. Unfortunately it seems that as a side effect of that, diet strategies can sometime take on the fervor of religion and politics. If you doubt this see BROL's health section, by rights that should be an awesome resource unfortunately that is rarely the case as a user subset over there will hijack most threads to convince people that there is only 1 right way to eat and live. We don't do that here. So this thread will be different and hopefully more useful.

So here's the deal after some thought and introspection I'm willing to spend the time to truly moderate some high quality threads about diet. This should allow use to have very good resources for Vegan, LowCarb, Vegetarian, and Even Donut centric thread. I'm going to treat each one as a resource for those following the approach; if someone drops in a post asking for honest question about "but how does that work" it will stay. But post that are clearly of the implication "that's stupid it won't work, this is better" will get promptly moved to there own thread where the debate can continue. If a subthread gets into a long back and for about I'm confused how can that be, even if it's helpful I will also spin that off so it can continue but be separate from the main resource in a healthy constructive manager. Frankly with the quality of our community I don't expect to have to do much of that unless a newbie misses this message or a good intention discussion between Aussies devolves (looking at your Slim and Jon) If you want one of these thread's PM me and I will start the thread with this same header (I can't insert it after you start your thread due to datestamps). All threads are welcome for various Diet/Train-Style approaches.

On topic for this type of thread: Books on the subject, research papers, podcasts, websites, recipes, person success stories, person struggles, user to user support and encouragement, race/event results, training results, failures, strategies.

If this is immensely popular we can lobby Lucia to great a diet and training top level forum that's moderated to hold all such thread. If it's boring and not interesting then well all I lost was the time it took to compose this (twice I deleted the first one on accident) and the time you spent to read it.

Please join in and let's see what the tribe can make of this sort of topic.

 

[ratz]

Ok Here's Jim's post that got this rolling. I have to include it as a quote, because trying to copy it in destroyed the thread on my first attempt.

If you are interested, read this:
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide to Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable Paperback – May 19, 2011
by Stephen D. Phinney (Author), Jeff S. Volek (Author)

It's worked for us.
The authors also have a companion book: The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance which is especially helpful in the realm of ultra-events.

 

[RojoRacing]

The Perez Diet of Donuts, Pizza, Super Burrito's & Fruit Smoothies works for everyone with the last name of Perez and will keep you churning out top notch 24hr races results for years to come. WARNING this diet doesn't work for anyone who isn't born with the last name of perez so don't try it, you'll just get fat, happy and slow

Sorry ratz, I couldn't help myself everyone please carry on with a good clean helpful discussion.

 

[ratz]

Edited: oh my the grammar was bad even for me.

And now my introductory post on this topic that I have been sitting on for many months. Those that chat with me; know that I'm on a long track to go from being slow and able to cover really long distances; to being respectively fast and still able to cover multi-state distances; and the goal is to get there by my 50's so I'm not rushing things. Much experimenting is going on. The wife formerly always referred to as Mrs. Ratz (and hence force PluckyBlond) is also training hard with the goal to keep at some pretty high levels and add to the lore of Cruzbike females. For now she'd tell you she's just slow; and stubborn.

Last season we started playing with fueling strategies for long ride and training efforts. We worked with long chain carbs (I believe that's what they are called) and ate traditionally american style food. Over the season we got faster; and we road long miles. ...But.... by the end of the season we gained weight and not good "riding" weight. While she controlled her's to a large extent by suffering through hungry, I caved and by the end of the fall my weight got a bit out of control as I ballooned up to 205 lbs in December.

My personal challenge was that the harder I trained the more I craved carbs and surgery foods. Sometime this would rise to the point of violent needs and late night fridge raids to satisfy the post training hunger (I often have to train at 9pm because of the demands of family and job leading to 1am food fits). I figured I just needed more discipline and internal will power. You know, the go to bed hungry bit... but my body didn't agree and it would trick my brain into caving in, and for the record I'm historically of strong will power when I have a purpose. I couldn't grasp why I was giving in.

About the time I hit my wits end, I was also reading books on Ultra Racing and I stumbled on to a new work "Primal-Endurance" by Mark Sisson and Brad Kearns. It looked interesting so I read it. Now here was some thing I could grasp. It proposes at Paleo+Dairy+No-Zealous. It had it's genesis in the PrimalBluePrint movement with concessions to the need for carbs for high high performance athletics. They go to long lengths to point out that many endurance athletes might be metabolically compromised from a cycle of high carb in; sugar burning efforts that don't align with their personal metabolism

Like all topics and books you have to have a sense of reality when you read them. Filter out the hard core sales pitch (every one is selling something) and follow the logic trail that is at the heart of the matter. This book, for us, had a good center on the food front. Atkins had worked for me years back but wasn't' sustainable in a family environment, but this one had some promise; it was far more sensible an balanced.

So we made the switch in January and embarked on a painful 21 days running at 50g of carbs a day for me and 100g for Pluckyblond. That was a rough 21 days. Mostly because we dropped all the food we were suppose to, but didn't have any substitutes ready. Their are plenty of substitutes we just were ignorant at the start.

Weeks 2-3 were the worst, withdrawal from sugar is hard and that spurned some research and led to finding new recipes and the filling of our pantry with all new foods. I'm happy to report that at this time we have successfully created: Pizza, Cheesecake, homemade peanut butter cups, and suitable hamburger buns along with other recipes we can share and will.

So what are the results so far? I'm down 20 lbs and up 5 watts in FTP. (loose weight not wattage is tough to do) I have no doubt that my optimal fighting weight of 155-160 is in reach, and that it can be achieved in maintainable way. My training rides (on the trainer) are up to 2.5-3.5 hours now; and I can do them on only water. This time last year to sustain a trainer based session of 2+ hours I needed to fuel and I had to eat good before and eat right after and often times sleep. Now I can go into the ride fasted from the night before during sleep, ride on water, and I might be a little hungry afterwards because those mini-cheese cakes sound oh so good after 3 hours on the V20.

Pluckyblond on the other hand doesn't need to loose weight but she's restructuring body fat at a really good rate, her weight is steady, but she also is riding the rides on water only and her power continues to climb. She was far more carb addicted that I was and it was a lot tougher for her. I was high volume she was high sweet tooth. We added lot's of vitamins during the transition, but she's over the hurdle now. Fortunately, she's the baker in the family and is really enjoying that she can now bake some of the alternative foods that we can eat with out gaining weight. She's get's her hobby back and we go better food (Score!). Any cool recipes that I share she gets all the props for; while I can live on steak and eggs; she's getting the credit for keeping the diet diversified and healthy as opposed to just low carb.

Ok that's enough of a start for one message; summary version; training + old diet = fat ratz. Book Primal Endurance + ration skepticism has turned the page in this house and we are seeing the results on body make up and bike performance.

 

[ratz]

Bring on the cheesecake. Because it's really good.
https://www.grassfedgirl.com/primal-low-carb-cheesecake/

And the peanut butter cups
http://lowcarbyum.com/chocolate-peanut-butter-fat-bomb-recipe/

*** Side note: Use "Swerve" for the sugar replacement.
It doesn't create an insulin reaction according to the research on "Erythritol"

 

[RojoRacing]

The item's in my diet that stand out as above average good that I feel I can recommend to others would be my
Steel Cut Oatmeal x 4 morning a week
Caesar Salad with and without chicken x for lunch a work week at a time when I feel like it
Fruit & protein smoothies almost after every session of riding or running I do if I was motivated enough to make it beforehand which is about 80% of the time. It's a complete meal so it replaces whatever my next meal was going to be.
Salmon, mixed steamed veggies and mash potatoes was one of my favorite dinner options but sadly the store I used to go to to but the fish closed down and now I'm to lazy to ask the deli counter to package me some fresh stuff.

Steel cut oatmeal is 1/4 cut steel cut oats, 1/2 cup water, 1/2 cup milk, 1 tbsp brown sugar, 1 tbsp udo's oil 3-6-9 blend, 1 tbsp honey, dash of cinnamon and pure vanilla. I make this for my dad and I ever morning at work except the one day a week I buy everyone donuts. On the weekends If I'm going to go hard early I'll have a banana and orange juice or 6-8 of my post ride smoothie. If I won't get going on my ride for a few hours due to travel time then I'll have a bear claw and devils food donut because they provide long burning fuel that keep me going all day.

Caesar salads are something I recently started as a lunch option. Half a head of romaine lettuce tossed with a very light coating of caesar dressing, I like to add olives because they taste good and a couple hard boiled eggs to hopefully add some protein.

Fruit & Protein smoothie is something I've dialed in over several months but now the recipe is unchanged for several years. 1 cup water, 1 cup thick mango juice, 1 cup fat free greek yogurt, 2 tbsp udo's oil, 2 servings of your favorite protein powder, 2 bananas, 3-4oz blue berries, 3-4oz black berries, half a dozen strawberries. All that makes about two 20oz post ride smoothies and they are also great for a pre race meal when taken in a smaller 8oz serving. These really taste great and when I was tweaking the recipe I had it pretty close to a 3-1 or 4-1 protein/carb ratio although I can't recall the exact number now. Since I normally ride after work these become my dinner most the time.

The Salmon mixed veggies and mashed potatoes is one of my favorites but it's time consuming for a single guy then my local favorite store closed down so It's been months since I've had this.

Those are the better things I eat when I've not being lazy which accounts for about 30% of the time. If I managed to change that to 90-100% then I'd be a word class athlete and far less fun to hang out with because half my appeal it knowing where all the best donut shops and hole in the wall mexican food joints are. It's not uncommon for me to have a whole box of cookies and milk for dinner because my will power gave out during my latest trip to the market. Honestly I'll eat just about anything that happens to be in the house at the time but it's my inability to shop healthy that kills me. If I could just have someone go shopping for me that would solve 70% of the equation in my case. Every year I get a little better at expanding the healthy side of my diet so at least I can feel like I'm improving.

 

[ratz]

Honestly I'll eat just about anything that happens to be in the house at the time but it's my inability to shop healthy that kills me. If I could just have someone go shopping for me that would solve 70% of the equation in my case.

That is a big challenge. We've gone to online grocery shopping which is one advantage of living near the really big city. That allows us to scrutinize the purchase and remove impulse items. Not to mention the time save can be spent on the bike. The cost premium which we have tracked for about 9 months is about $5-7 per week. Well worth it in our book.

Steel Cut Oatmeal x 4 morning a week

Now that's been one of the harder foods to replace in the low carb routine. The oats are off the table and we use to eat that a lot. This month I plan to play with course ground nuts heated in the microwave and then pour cashew milk over the top of them.

If anyone hasn't tried cashew milk I highly recommend that. I can't drink diary anymore just don't digest it well. Soy milk I didn't like the taste of, I don't like cocnut flavor, and almond milk didn't quiet do it sat like rock in stomach. But 2 weeks ago we discovered unsweetened Cashew milk with vanilla flavor. It tastes good; goes down like water, has no sugar and more calcium than dairy milk. It's comparable in price to other milk substitutes so it's made it on to our breakfast table for the month. The real endorsement has been that the kids 20 thorough 3 years old all like it. Pluckyblond tried the sweetened stuff with a little sugar and declared that the unsweetened stuff was better.

The Salmon mixed veggies and mashed potatoes is one of my favorites but it's time consuming for a single guy then my local favorite store closed down so It's been months since I've had this.

Salmon, boy is there a fish that you wish was less expensive; that would be top of my list; Salmon, Spinach and Sweet potatoes is a favorite here after 2+ hours of hard training; or as the meal the night before a 5am ride. the Chipotle sweet potato fries are really good, surprisingly so; since usually those make for soggy fries.

 

[LarryOz]

First of all Thanks Bob for putting this together!
OK - Here's my "story"
Last year was my first full year of racing. I trained like a maniac, but did not really think too much about diet.
My wife is a great cook and generally we eat healthy and I feel like we had a good mix of meats, veggies, carbs, and fruits in our diets.
I followed pretty much a workout routine that had me ride hard T, H, S, with recovery M, W, F, Sun. On M, W, F I would do about 30 minutes lifting weights for upper body only.
Mostly due to my relentless training, my weight stabilized at about 150 pounds. I am 5'7" but not a a slender built person.
At the beginning of the year I was eating solid foods during my ultra rides, but found it lacking and felt slight distress and ending up using Infinit on anything over several hours.It was OK, but I started not liking it after 10 hours of just it!
After my Century record in Oct, 2015 - I took a brief break and then just starting doing power internals every other day.
Yes - I know this does not sound anywhere diet related, but I am giving background - it is coming...
Due to my vigorous exercised routine I pretty much felt like I could eat anything I wanted, and I did. I got in the the habit of having hot chocolate at work everyday in the winter and then just year round instead of coffee - maybe even with a donut or 2.
Snacks in the afternoon - Soda, chips, a couple small candy bars - after all I deserved it - I probably burned an average person's days worth of calories on my morning workout alone.
I did not even weight myself all winter. At a doctor's appointment at the beginning of March I was pretty horrified that my weight has crept all the up to 173 pounds. (Those darn hot chocolates!) I thought my pants had started feeling a little tight! haha

I mentioned this to Bob at some point and her referred to what he had been doing via the "Primal Endurance" book he mentioned above.
I got the book and read it.
It is full of great information and advance about diet, and lifestyle changes that are good for you.
The only thing I would have negative to say about the book is they reference how "our ancestors [the apes] lived and ate and how we evolved from that" , way to much. You all know where I stand on that - nuff said!
Other than that, the book is rich with information primarily about a very low carb diet, what they call aerobic level training, a healthy-balanced lifestyle, and some very interesting "case studies".
Diet: Primarily cutting out any refined sugar and wheat products (which is very healthy in my mind). Minimize healthy carbs to whatever level you need for weight loss, or maintenance.
Aerobic base training. Find your "base" level by being able to still breath through you nose and talk. Training your body to use your fat for most of its energy.
Balanced life: The book make a great pitch for leading a healthy-balance-stress free lifestyle. Be as active as you can be, do fun things, be spontaneous with other activities, rest a lot. This is great advice and very refreshing to hear.
Case Studies of endurance athletes that have embraced the Primal diet: One example - Guy did a 70.3 triathelon totally without fuel - not just "slow one" either - at a very high competitive level. Many other examples of similar en-devours. Quite impressive

I started eating the "Primal" diet and pretty much just riding at my "aerobic" level (which for me was about 130'sh bpm). Depending on my rest level I can usually start around 180 watts for that level.
I tried to keep my "healthy carbs" to about 50 grams a day, and I was also doing 2 - 2/12 hours or riding most days.
I lost 15 pounds in the first 3 weeks, but it was not pleasant for the first 2 weeks giving up all that sugar and refined carbs!
After about 2 weeks though I stabilized and actually started tasting the other foods more and enjoying them. Finally broke the cycle I think!
The book also mentioned something called intermittent fasting-IF (which my wife had started to do as part of a separate diet) Basically you fast in the morning until about 10am then eat your breakfast. Have lunch about 2 and then supper at 6pm.
I did that for the first 2 weeks and did not have any problem.
Eventually I actually just switched to 2 meals a day, and ate breakfast (usually 3 eggs, 2 oz ham and sliced or provolone cheese.) about noon, and then a dinner of meat and veggies around 6-7. I may have a snack of nuts an hour or 2 later.

The riding part:
After only 4 days on the diet I tried to ride 3 hours on my trainer (at only aerobic level) without any fuel - I felt like I had "bonked" . I could barely get off the V, and could not even walk. I was wasted for the weekend.
Here is my ride on Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/520884019

The next weekend, I took to the track and rode 103 miles while I tested different wheel sets. I did have a couple minute break every 4 or 5 miles and it took forever, but I did successfully ride 103 miles without any fuel and only 30 oz of water, but did have 110 minutes of "off" bike time during the entire Century
Here is that ride: https://www.strava.com/activities/527503209

The following week I was determined to try a non-stop Century with no fuel.
I wasn't ready to ride at my "upper" aerobic level just in case, so I tried to keep my HR around till at a relatively "low" level = around 120 bpm
Here is that ride: https://www.strava.com/activities/532974919
I was very please that I was able to ride at nearly 22 mph for 4 1/2 hours and not need any fuel. I think I was close to a 4:35 Century with 2 short stops for new water bottle and then bathroom/phone break.
This was also after fasting most of the day.
Wow - it looks like it really works.
...
I did 3 weeks of the aerobic base training while dieting. I do not know if my power increased or not like Bob's.
I have to say that I have felt pretty weak and tired most of time even thought the "aerobic workouts" are significantly easier.
I think the sugar withdrawal was part of of it, a big part. I have started on a Sustained Power Build plan now and will do that for 8 weeks.

I was down to 154 pounds this last Sunday and my goal weight is around 144 (which would be 65 kg). Now that I have TrainerRoad workout going off my Vector pedals it looks like my FTP is around 240. (I think it was artificially high [20 watts or so] due to the flywheel affect of riding a big gear at high cadence during some of my workouts). That's for a different thread so I'll stop about that for now.

I intend to keep on the "primal type" diet pretty strictly until I reach that weight and then slowly add back in the necessary "good" carbs to maintain my weight.
I will also have to start testing how many "carbs" I need to put into my system when I am "racing" and my HR is above my aerobic base. I recognize, as do others, that once you push past your "high' aerobic level you are going to need to start dumping some carbs into your body for fuel. It will just be a lot less than when you where sugar addicted - but it is a fine balance if you want to maximize your performance.

At some point I would like to test if I would be able to do an entire 12-hour ride without fuel - there's another thread too!
I have lofty ultra-goals too like Bob, unfortunately I started a lot later in life than him, but at 56, I can say I don't think I've felt much better than this as far as strength and health.
I am glad I got this "kick in the butt" to help align my eating habits and diet into a more healthy focus that matches my riding/racing focus.

As Bob said at the onset: diets are strange animals. What works for one person, may not work for the other person. There is really no "right" or "wrong". Best we can do is share our experiences with each other with as much truth and honestly as we can.
What each person does with the information is up to them.
Thanks for listing to my story and looking forward to yours!

 

[ratz]

For those following along. If you get into the long slow base endurance building and you want to ride "Carb depleted" then bullet proof coffee is your friend. Apparently this was all the hollywood rage for a while; no matter it's still pretty good. I stumbled on it from listening to a series of interviews with highly successful endurance athletes. After it was mention for the 4th or 5th time I went digging to figure out what they meant.

Basically this boils down to: 1 Tall cup of coffee, 2 Tbsps MCT Oil, and 2 Tbsps clarified Butter, mixed in a blender; and you get a good tasting (super super rich) starbucks style coffee; but it's calories are all from accessible fats and not sugars. I'll try anything once and this one worked out really well. I make it either full strength or half strength depending on the situation. If you try it start half strength or it may over whelm you. I of course went whole-hog, but you have been warned.

This makes a good breakfast or lunch replacement (it has to be a replacement because of the huge calorie count) and is especially useful prior to riding. I don't like to train within 3 hours of eating as I don't seem to get a good workout. But I can't have a BP Coffee and ride 10 minutes later. You can get the details here: https://www.bulletproofexec.com I'm not convinced I need to use their "special coffee" I did try it and it does taste really good, but it should at that price. When it runs out I'll try run of the mill coffee. The MCT oil is easiest to get from them. Instead of the clarified butter I'm using Ghee, which is easy to get from Trader Joes as it's a staple of Fried Indian Food and thus available form there and many sources.

My uses are to drink it at 5am on Saturday or Sunday before my 2-3 hours on the trainer. Replaces breakfast. Usually after that workout I do not get hungry again until about 1pm. Second usage is as Lunch when I plan to ride at 5-6pm instead of having dinner with the family; I then eat dinner post ride/training.

It's not an every day thing but so far it's work really during the restrictive phase of the diet. Once I hit my weight goal I'll have to re-assess how it affects me.

 

[SamP]

I assume you meant clarified butter. Clarified butter is just the butter fat, with most or all of the water and milk solids removed. The Indian version (not quite the same thing) is called ghee. Here is a recipe. My first attempt (very recent), I burned the milk solids, next time I'lll have to keep a closer eye on the pot.

 

[ratz]

I assume you meant clarified butter. Clarified butter is just the butter fat, with most or all of the water and milk solids removed. The Indian version (not quite the same thing) is called ghee. Here is a recipe. My first attempt (very recent), I burned the milk solids, next time I'lll have to keep a closer eye on the pot.

You are correct. I'll fix that typo; and I'm using Ghee as the substitute; which works just fine.

 

[Tigerpaw]

Loving this thread. Out of the blue a coworker asked me about the low carb approach and endurance efforts. He is not a cyclist, but knew I was. Sent me this link: http://cyclingtips.com/2013/08/high-fat-low-carb-diets-good-for-you-and-your-cycling/. I do not currently subscribe to this life style change, but definitely watch with great interest.

 

[LarryOz]

Another successful (and faster) no-fuel Century.
After 4 weeks of eating about 50grams (good) carbs a day, and 16 pounds lighter, I attempted another fuel-less Century to see how my fat adaption has progressed
This time I up'd my HR to about 136 to see how I would fair.
2 weeks ago I held my HR to about 120. That netted me an average of 117watts and an average speed of about 21.7mph
This week my 136 HR averaged me about 143 watts and about 23 mph.
After my Century I tried to go "all out" (Or at least as fast I I felt safe on a high school track = which was around 27) for about 5 miles. I did this to see if I have any glucose left in my muscles. I am happy to say that my legs responded pretty well. Every with the windy conditions, I was able to manage an average speed of about 26.7 on about 207 watts, and average HR of 163bpm.
It really looks like it is working (fat adapation) pretty well. Next I need to see at what point I actually start using more glucose than my body can produce from fat breakdown and when I will have to start feeding the engine.

I guess next week I'll up the anti again to 145-150bpm for a Century and see how that goes.

 

[SamP]

2 weeks ago I held my HR to about 120. That netted me an average of 117watts and an average speed of about 21.7mph...

Geeze, I don't think I can be pushing my pedals and keep my HR under 120. Heck, I went for a ride last week where I tried to keep my effort low enough to stay under 140 bpm.

 

[joy]

I don't know if this would apply to anyone, but my husband's nephew recently lost about 50 pounds relatively quickly. I'm not sure of the time frame, but he ended up having to have his gall bladder removed. It was due to the weight loss. Be careful out there.

 

[hoyden]

. Next I need to see at what point I actually start using more glucose than my body can produce from fat breakdown and when I will have to start feeding the engine.

Would this lead to bonking? I bonk a half dozen times in a season and I am trying to manage the energy better .

 

[LarryOz]

Geeze, I don't think I can be pushing my pedals and keep my HR under 120. Heck, I went for a ride last week where I tried to keep my effort low enough to stay under 140 bpm.

Everybody is different and has different HR levels. But generally the harder you work the more your body will adapt and the lower your HR will work under load, and at rest.
I know a guy that has a 26bpm resting rate, and can ride at 24mph with his heart only beating 106bpm. Amazing! Mine barely gets into the upper 30's when I sleep!

Would this lead to bonking? I bonk a half dozen times in a season and I am trying to manage the energy better .

That is my understanding (Ratz will jump in if I am wrong - or perhaps give a better explanation!)
When all the glucose in your system is used up, your brain shuts down your muscles to prevent what it thinks is disaster.
If you become fat adapted and learn to not exceed a certain level, you are technically bonk-proof.

 

[hoyden]

If you become fat adapted and learn to not exceed a certain level, you are technically bonk-proof.

I have suspected that was the case. The body is out of juice and it wants to stop right now. For me that certain level is pretty sedate level, almost equivalent to walking. If I am careful and detect the bonk early it can pass in as little at 15 minutes. A full bonk sidelines me for about 45 minutes.

I've been doing the low-carb thing for several years. It's the only way I have any hope of maintaining a reasonable weight. I also test my blood sugar occasionally to explore how various things affect glucose levels.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

Hoyden, the bonking thing is a complex subject. You have glucose in your blood (blood sugar). And you have glucose polymer in your muscles and liver (glycogen). If your blood sugar drops from using it faster than you replace it with food or from your liver, then you will become hypoglycemic and will feel sick, and you might feel like you are going to pass out. If you use up the glycogen in your muscles (because you are not highly trained enough to burn mostly fat for energy), then your power output will drop significantly and you will feel less powerful and tired. Training the aerobic system develops many components of the aerobic system so that you can burn fat for fuel and conserve glycogen. Since glycogen gets burned as part if the aerobic process of energy production from fat, it will eventually run out even for the highly trained athletes. But running out can be delayed by having a large store of glycogen from training and by minimizing its use by staying aerobic. By being highly trained, a higher power output can be achieved while staying aerobic. Also, training will make the muscles hear the insulin signal better so that less insulin needs to be produced and used to get glycogen into the muscle, thereby preventing type 2 diabetes. That's why athletes can eat a lot of sugars during and after training, which is actually good for them, for maintaining blood sugar during a ride or replenishing glycogen during recovery, without developing diabetes, which sedentary people are at risk of developing from the same diet. So, as an athlete, all you need to do is ride a lot and all these things will happen automatically. But once in a while, you might see a newbie on the side of the road with his or her head between his or her legs or maybe lying on his or her back with other newbies standing around waiting for the person to just magically feel better. Chances are, this person does not understand the basics of proper fueling and has become hypoglycemic. If so, a shot of sugar will solve the problem almost instantly.

 

[ratz]

That is my understanding (Ratz will jump in if I am wrong - or perhaps give a better explanation!)
When all the glucose in your system is used up, your brain shuts down your muscles to prevent what it thinks is disaster.
If you become fat adapted and learn to not exceed a certain level, you are technically bonk-proof.

bonking thing is a complex subject.

IMHO bonk gets incorrectly co-oped and overused; to mean low blood sugar below a level the athlete is accustomed to; you can bounce back from low blood sugar. If you've known someone that is clinically hypoglycemic then you get a feel for the the rapid onset and rapid recovery that goes with it, and the weird nuances of using things like Chromium Picolinate to regulate insulin production uptake during normally daily life; all of which really pails in comparison to what diabetics face.

Bonk in it's original form is something you don't come back from accept maybe to crawl to the finish line. What happen to Julie Moss in 1982 is a bonk; her central governing system in her brain (the involuntary part) simply turned her muscles off.

Various terms you'll hear in sport:

Hitting the Wall - getting to that point that you shift mostly to running on fat; the blood glucose is mostly gone. The body shifts into conversation mode so as not to burn liver and muscle glucose unless it has to. Highly trained aerobic athletes can keep going and can get into a zone where suddenly the effort seem easier (fat burns cleaner, even if it take more energy to do so) and you stop hurting. Usually happens around 1:30-2:00 hours in at tempo pace, sometimes confused with "warming up". The better train aerobically you are; the less blood sugar that has to burn off to make the switch thus leaving you more for later. Under trained and your really have to burn off all of the blood glucose first. Undertrained you Feel the wall, well trained it tends to just not happen.

Red Lining - going at an HR beyond what you can sustain; climb a hill on a bike over your sustainable HR; and you will pop and go backwards. Rest a little bit and you can come back. Happens all the time to the young riders in the Tour de France one minute they are hanging in on a climb and pop they go straight backwards until they recover and ride at their own pace.

Going Hypo -or- Go into SugarDebt - sugar adapted athlete runs out of sugar; light headed; dizzy nausea ; they pop a "gel" and poof they are back; if they start "gel packing" (taking in a gel every 10 minutes) they pay a huge debt in lactic acid side affect. (No not getting into the is lactic a cause or is it an affect here) Athletes that over-use the Gels can get shutdown by the burn in the muscle or the stomach rejecting the intake.

Bonk - Game over, play video game death sound, see you after 2-3 days of recovery.


So this whole fat adapting when over simplified is to lower the need for re-sugaring and being really efficient at using what's in the blood stream sparingly, at some point in a hyper competitive environment you will exceed your training, or screwup your threshold management, and need some extra forms of glycogen whether you can get that fast enough from fat or need external sugar source depends on your metabolism, your training, your genetics, the length of the event. Can you put out enough watts at speed and stay aerobic; just how hard can you go without burning sugar. All in-exact science right now; but they are studying it. This is the stuff of training, testing, strategy, success, failure, refine, repeat.....

My personal tests continue, I rode on Saturday under the following conditions:

• I had my final meal of the day Friday at 6pm
• Total carbs on Friday (56g) (weight loss mode)
• I slept about 3 hours on Friday night, (short even for me)
• I got up had a bullet proof coffee; about 400 calories of good fats
• Took some amino acids and vitamins (ritual for clear headed riding those amino are)
• Headed out on the road for a ride in pretty vicious winds 15-20mph
• Ride total 57 miles, 3 hours, Average power 138w, average heart rate 161bpm, Average speed 19mph
• According to my power meter; 75% of my time was below threshold (aerobic) 2 hours 15 minutes or so.
• According to my hear rate monitor I was 71% above threshold (anaerobic) 2 hours 10 minutes or so.
• Did not eat on the ride since it was sub 4 hours.
• Perceived exertion level was lazy outside of the climbs.

So did I run on sugar or fat? which was right the power meter or the hr monitor?

Well the data can be miss leading; and HR is tricky to study, while the Power Meter doesn't lie. So that's where this get hard, without going into discussion of the analytic review of the ride in WKO lets simplify this.... This was without a doubt, an aerobic ride for me, there really was only a small amount of glucose in my system to run on based on prior days hard training and restrictive diet; blood levels were likely to be low (but not tested) and muscle and liver was probably about normal. I've been training for 2.5 months at long and slow efforts (still ongoing) to run aerobic at higher paces (nothing as accomplished as what joe does, and I got a late start to my off season training). During the ride I rode next to people at times and could talk to them while they could barely speak; they'd get annoyed and ask me to ride away so they could quietly suffer in the wind. (insert sympathy for DF riders here).

But there's that HR that says I just did a crazy hard anaerobic workout, I shouldn't have been able to talk and there that odd fact that I didn't crash and burn after 90 minutes or really slow down my power output.... Why is that? Simple there's a missing datapoint in the list above. I screwed up my hydration rate; I fell behind, by about 1 bottle of water and in the super dry wind I could never catch up. I ended the ride with dry mouth, cranked lips, salt on face; and a crazy high heart rate from the body attempting to deal with the excess heat caused by lack of hydration. Normally this ride effort would not have gotten my heart rate higher than 140 bpm. So if you start to train this way and watch your numbers you have to be careful looking at the data at all time and draw your conclusion carefully, becausse Everything matters and why answers are elusive. It would be easy to look at this data and say wow huge effort without sugar, machine like, when actually it's just a boring aerobic ride with a major hydration error that made me cut it short 40 miles from the plan for fear of messing my system up rightly good. Meanwhile on strava, to someone that doesn't know the details, I have an effort that looks far harder that it really was, it looks like a maximal effort; when really it was a Sunday cruise in the wind; only time I road "hard" was going up hill and it wasn't a race pace effort; any Vendetta pilot looks at a 19mph average and goes Took it easy didn't you? yup you betchya I took it easy now hand me that water bottle please!