extremely steep hill climb

Winded Lowrider

Winded Lowrider

Well-Known Member
Tried some super steep climbing on my V20 yesterday. Epic fail. I was unable to handle anything above 8 percent for more than a few hundred feet. Below 8 percent I can find a rhythm and get to the top. My set up now is round rings 50/34 with 11-32 cassette. I've improved my fitness and dropped 5lbs of flab. I signed up for the Mt baker Hill climb ( september 9) so I've got to get my climbing legs soon. The road up Mt baker is 3-10 percent grade....

Slippage occurs if I don't totally focus on smooth pedaling. I wonder if oval rings would help encourage smoothness? I also wonder what low gear other V20 riders use?

34t x 36t? 38t? 42t? I don't know if the road derailleur will handle that range. I'm moving about 5-6mph in my current low gear.
 
paco1961

paco1961

Zen MBB Master
Not on a V but S40. I run 46-34 front and 11-36 rear. 15% is a challenge but doable at 7mph. 18% is the most I’ve done but only for about 30 yards and it was no fun. Below 7 I get a bit wobbly. 5% not doable for me on a climb. I can do it on flats.
 
ccf

ccf

Guru
My small ring is a 34t Q-ring. I have a 10-42 MTB cassette for hills, and 145mm cranks for my knees. I don’t get slippage on clean, dry pavement even if the grade is well into double digits.
 
Winded Lowrider

Winded Lowrider

Well-Known Member
PACO 1961: Per my experience, I have a hard time believing 15 percent is ridable for more than about 100 feet. How can you sustain 7mph?!
CCF: Do you find the Q ring helps? Do you have a standard q ring or a QXL? Did you change derailleurs to accommodate the 10-42 cassette?
 
RojoRacing

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
36f-32r for me but
Winded Lowrider said:
PACO 1961: Per my experience, I have a hard time believing 15 percent is rideable for more than about 100 feet. How can you sustain 7mph?!
Click to expand...

15% isn't sustainable for more than a few 100 feet for 80% of riders on DF bikes and even fewer on bents and I'd say the speeds are closer to 4-5 mph for that steep a grade at my fitness. What I see more often then not is people mis-interpreting data and over estimating their climbs actual sustained % only focusing on it's max grade somewhere in the middle and only for a few dozen feet. Here's one of only 2 sustained climbs at 15% or greater ( https://www.strava.com/segments/613249 ) that I've ever ridden and the one time I did mountain repeats on the V20 I averaged 4.3- 5.1mph over about 100 seconds each time and that was at my limit of power with me having to walk my sixth attempt. Wheel slip is an issue for even me on this segment but to come across 15% for this length of road is super rare, every other time we're talking 10-20 seconds max and you get to roll into them more speed then you're going to sustain. For reference my best time on the DF bike is 45 seconds which places me 43rd out of over 18,000 riders including the pro tour racers when they finished at the summit once.
 
RojoRacing

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
Here's the only other 15% sustained climb(sorry only 14%) I've ridden and it's 6 mins for me on the V20 at 5.0 mph or 3:38 for Levi Leipheimer which is 8.2 mph with EPO aids :rolleyes: This climb took everything I had not to stale out and walk which is what I hear at least 50% or the DF field ends up doing. I could very well be the only bent to ever do the tour of unkown and probably the only to ever climb that road, it's part of a grand fondo event but so far out of the way you don't just get people running across it randomly.

https://www.strava.com/segments/5518810?filter=overall
 
Winded Lowrider

Winded Lowrider

Well-Known Member
In my prime on a DF, I thought I was a pretty good climber...I could drop cat 4 and cat 3 riders fairly easily and hang with cat 2 riders. I was 20 pounds lighter and significantly stronger than today. So I know a bit about climbing. What I don't know is how to do it on a V20. I think I need to fine tune the gearing. I'm currently grinding away at 65-70 cadence going 5-6 mph up slopes around 7 percent.

Rojo: Whats the key for you; smooth power, strength to weight ratio, proper gearing or all of that together? Can I ask how heavy are you? I'm 6', 180 pounds right now...

Also I have ridden with Tim Turner up some significant hills and that dude climbs on his Bachetta CA2 like it's a DF, it's astonishing how fast he goes. He can't be more than 150 pounds, so that may be part of his magic.
 
RojoRacing

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
5'10" 155lbs and 60 cadence up 15% is about the norm for me with my 36f-32r gearing. not sure if you can see this data on strava but I averaged 61 cadence for 6 mins up that 14% climb https://www.strava.com/activities/568754643/analysis/15114/15475

On zwift up the 14% radio tower I averaged 58 cadence for over 5 mins and that's like 4.5wkg effort which is cat 2 racer power. One of the reasons so many people on zwift claim the resistance for high % climbs doesn't seem realistic is because they've never actually ridden up a 15% climb for more than 20 seconds in real life. It's also the reason less than 1% of riders on zwift will even try the mountain on full simulation and why so many flock to the justifying of lowering the sim settings. I think even with shorter gearing the bent fad of going super short cranks robs riders from some very important direct leverage you can't gain back with extra cadence which is why I don't go that route.

The trick to climbing on the V20 is the same as any other 26lb DF bike. You just need to push the pedals hard and smooth for as long as you can, there are no pills, apps or secret techniques that will make up for the 50-100 watts or 6 teeth of gearing you lack. Well maybe there are pills but lets not go there on here. I will admit the thor seat on my V20 gives me aa advantage over the stock seat when cranking out those high watts at low cadence due to pure comfort. I still need to get the Parkers out to California to ride some real mountains with me so I can see how they handle the climbs and how they like to move their bodies around.
 
Winded Lowrider

Winded Lowrider

Well-Known Member
Rojo:

Thanks for the insight. I installed a thor seat so I'm with you there. I'm working on upping the power ( at 52yo its not easy) and lowering the body mass ( slow but steady). In the Seattle area we have real mountains like you do. I am not a short crank guy. Tried it hated it. I tried keto to lose pounds and I found it hard to adapt so now I'm just intermittent fasting which is working very slowly....

maybe my 34t rear will be enough if I go with an oval 34 chainring
 
jond

jond

Zen MBB Master
Climbing mountains and 155 mm short cranks is seemingly harder than 170 mm crankset.

But I do get all other advantages which are not really a fad but of real benefit.

My natural cadence has increased and I have better form with no loss in power.

But anything over 6% and of any distance is yeah nup and a preference for longer cranks as my cadence falls to below 60.

Fortunately the world is pretty flat around here.

The best way to climb steep gradients is to ride them regularly and harden the body up......and lighten up everything. Especially the motor. There are no short cuts to loving hills just plain very hard work and practice.

And a bowel movement just before the ride helps.

I avoid big hills these days if I can. Shouldn’t we all.
 
E

ElyDave

Guru
I'll let you know next week. I've been up a few hills that peaked at about 12% for a short while with a 52/39/30 on front and 12-28 rear. That was hard for those short sections and I've switched to 12-32 rear for my touring holiday where I'll have about 1kg of luggage as well. There are two days with a decent bit of climbin, not steep in terms of average - sustained 5-6% over 5km, 3% over 10km and another one onto a trailhead that is extremely steep but short approach and then flat, but the routes are generally undulating all day so there may be a cumulative effect as well.
 
E

ed72

Zen MBB Master
I enjoy so much reading RoJo's dose of reality on climbing. Extended 15% climbs are rare and very hard. The first one below is one that maybe Tim Turner could make it up but I doubt it. He does have the W/Kg for it. Most DF riders fall over about half way up while out of the saddle going all out on the first one, they just fail.

Climbs like these are about managing anaerobic efforts or W' or HIE depending on what software one uses. You aren't making it up them at LTP and the ability to buffer H+ or simply to suffer is needed. If the climb has little flat places....I "rest" and restore a bit. If one looks the the power output of the riders on these segments, these light riders are making in the 350-450 watt range. It would take me 260-280 watts just to crawl at 4 mph for 21 minutes and 15 minutes respectively for each of these "short" steep climbs; however, I would not dare try them on a bent myself. There are a few 2-3 mile hills like this in the Appalachian mountains and some in the Alps, but 15% extended climbs are indeed very rare.

https://www.strava.com/segments/693110

Shorter but also tough

https://www.strava.com/segments/689842
 
paco1961

paco1961

Zen MBB Master
15% on the S40 is doable for me at 7mph for 100-200 yards max and that’s about it. Undulating hills that vary between 10 and 15% (with most being closer to 10 and only a few short 15s) provide enough respite from the real steep stuff to be sustainable for 4 miles or so. @RojoRacing is right about the rarity of sustained 15% slopes. Have only been on 1. Barely made the1.5 mile stretch on DF but no chance on the S40.

Steepest slope I’ve done on a DF is 21% but that was only for about 200’ out of a half mile climb, most of which is about 12-14%. Sitting at the 82 mile mark made it oh so much fun.

I do prefer my 155mm cranks to the original 172.5. The latter may provide more leverage but the knees were very unhappy w that arrangement. But @jond is right about the two most important bits to steep climbing - conditioning and dropping weight from the engine.
 
Balor

Balor

Zen MBB Master
jond said:
Climbing mountains and 155 mm short cranks is seemingly harder than 170 mm crankset.

But I do get all other advantages which are not really a fad but of real benefit.

My natural cadence has increased and I have better form with no loss in power.
Click to expand...

You can more than make up for lost leverage at the cranks by going triple and installing something like 24T in the lower end... or 11sp 11-42 cassette at the rear, though it require a sacrifice in gear gaps that is way too large to my liking, I hate 2T jumps at cruising speeds.

I've *had* to install about 150mm cranks (re-drilled MTB cranks) to actually fit my bent. While I didn't like them at all at first, now I'm quite happy with them. It has a very large benefit of being able to install MTB 'seagull' bars with my legs not hitting anything in the process (each CM of cranks 'shortening' allows one to move the bars forward 2cm) and top of the boom not digging into my sternum when I sit up.

You do have to adapt to them, because I presume your 'central governor' has find new optimal muscle firing patterns for optimal efficiency.
In fact, at you *knees* also have to adapt to them. It took me about 300 miles.
 
Balor

Balor

Zen MBB Master
Since my overall weight is 300 pounds, my world is full of climbs that are nothing special to anyone else and equivalent to 10+% to me :(.
 
E

ElyDave

Guru
So far this week, in order of steepness, all with 15kg added touring luggage

4km at about 4.5-5%, completed
750m at about 6.5-7%, completed
2km at 10% failed. I walked about 500m of it until it levelled out somewhat. Just lost momentum and rhythm in lowest gear.

There were bits in those that went >10%. On the way down from the 4km section I saw downhill warnings of 14%! I have to ride back over that on Monday!

Biggest issue one had so far this week is crappy roads and losing traction, on the 4.5-5% section, there was a hairpin where the front wheel was definitely slipping
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
visit our website visit our website
Top