front wheel change

[3bs]

lmao. as a tinkerer on all things, who is in perpetuity taking stuff apart and putting back together, uncooperative parts are so common i often suspect when stuff goes together perfectly that something must be wrong.

i consider these to be what are commonly called "first world" problems, as opposed to third world problems like food and water. so i embrace them as phsical crossword puzzles and tests of patience.

there are a lot of small engineering changes that i would do on the v. some would add to production cost, some not. derailleur hanger is one. there are at least two systemic issues with its present form. Robert hit on one other issue that i think is far more prevalent than anyone would suspect, and that is front end alignment. there are so many parts that can be set individually out of alignment that you have a three dimensional issue. this goes all the way up to the handlebars. think about how many places you have a dimensional adjustment: in/out ; rotate left/right. move left/right; rotate up/down. the front end of the bike deserves an alignment jig. the simplest change here i think would be if the boom assembly were key slotted, that would reduce two rotation points and force the bottom bracket clamps to stay square with the boom, and the handlebars and the stays. the sequence of assembly would have to change slightly, but not a lot. mostly in the final tightening.

i have wondered if this is my problem as i have some tracking error above 33 mph going downhill. i just can't seem to get comfortable, and the bike seems to wander some, mostly to the left. not quite death wobble, but a little pull and wander. the rims are Reynolds assaults with schwable ones (700x28). the rims are true, the tire is seated slightly out of round near the valve stem for about 4 inches. i am going to put my other wheelset on this weekend and see if it carries over, but i have this suspicion that my front end is out of alignment, and that i just don't notice it until i am coasting at speed.

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

Hubby holds the chain, derraileur.

That would help, but unfortunately being male I don't have a hubby.

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

i just can't seem to get comfortable,

This may be a concurring issue with recumbents. Sitting on a standard bike saddle the bum goes exactly where it is supposed to go, but with the parkbench like arrangement on the Vendetta there is no such guidance and I find I am constantly shifting to get myself in alignment with the boom. I do find I tend to lay on the right side of the seat so that I am looking down to the chain rather than along the boom and the flimsy and narrow head rest is so indeterminate that there is no confidence in setting my head central on it.

 

[3bs]

yes the v20 seat is not much of a bucket and certainly not a cheek divider, but i have a few recumbent, and i have not problem blowing down hills at stupid speeds. all have thors or some other carbon seat, except for my t50 which is stock metal and my trikes which are webbed. i took the center pad out of my ventisit and that helped the feel, but this pull think is something different.

Even when i dial back based on the pucker factor, i should still be running mid high 30's with a lot less anxiety.

 

[bladderhead]

i consider these to be what are commonly called "first world" problems

Yes. Your headrest doesn't fit. Boo-hoo.

 

[19Sprocket]

I am curious why the S40 does not have a derailleur hanger, surely it can't add that much cost to the manufacturing cost?

 

[benphyr]

I am curious why the S40 does not have a derailleur hanger...

There is actually a derailleur hanger on the S40. Here is the section of the S40 Complete 2019 Assembly Guide:


But if you mean why it is a custom part instead of a standard hanger it probably has something to do with the chain stay being able to rotate and therefore needing a hanger that can rotate with it without getting in the way of the fork or anything else. For an official answer you would have to ask Cruzbike, thankfully they are as close as this forum, maybe @Robert Holler can answer this type of technical question.

 

[Robert Holler]

The hanger is indeed a non-standard one - for the reason noted - it has to ideally be placed right at the point of rotation. It could likely be integrated into the swap in some way, but we have found this to be the simplest way to do it (so far)

More parts and more complication is never better.

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

After the mess I made of removing the front wheel, I took it to the LBS and paid $10 for them to put it all in order again. Not something I want to have to do on a regular basis.

 

[Mark]

I appreciated the video. I bent the dr on my S30 the second time I changed a flat. What is different than a DF? Well, for one, my Ds on my DF were always welded together. So you know, I didn't worry about them coming apart while I was changing a flat. Truthfully, after 35+ years of riding, I can't say I've ever had to change all that many flats relative to the miles ridden, until I got the S30. What was different? Skinny tires, and it is a little harder to avoid road hazards on a recumbent because you are not staring at the pavement right as your front tire gets close to the hazard. I have a Q45 now. The tires are more robust and handle road hazards much better. Don't get me wrong, I really like my Cruzbike, but pretending it is no different than a DF is not going to help people navigate the problem.

 

[3bs]

one of the things that i have noticed with long term cb riders, or shall i say early converts, or shall i say the old guard, or shall i say those who came before me, or shall i just get to the point....

i think it is a fair generalization to say that historically cruzbike owners are more bike geekish, or more techier, or more tinkerers, or shall i just get to the point....

and so there is a higher degree of tolerance for jigsaw puzzles, or shall i say a touch of rube goldberg, or shall i say, less then simple, or shall i just get to the point...

so i think it is quite natural the senior CB tribe would be dismissive of small inconveniences and less than fully refined engineering, and at the same time be cheerleaders to a fault on the wonders of the breed. i think it is also a fair statement to say that the forum, while overall it is one of the most open armed groups you will ever find, it is a place where one has to get used to the culture, which includes healthy doses of flames, jabs, unfiltered comments, and personal pronoun pronouncements.

i grew up in a rough crowd, and dearly love the rough and tumble of the neighborhood tavern, the guys i ride with (the north shore miscreants) and single marque forums.

that said, and as much of a student of means of locomotion as i am, when i got my first cb frameset, i must admit that i was doing a lot of WTF and LMAO about the idiosyncrasies of the brand. This included the v20 front stay/fork/derailleur hanger seating arrangement, and the zip tie solution (which i refuse to do out of principle). having raced cars and trucks for decades, zip ties, duct tape, baling wire, and metal strapping are honored methods of repair, so it was quite amusing to see people suggest that as a standard issue component for that engineering aspect. but then again, in my younger days i worked on both British and Italian cars, where tolerance of your marque's quarks made you an aficionado.

may all newcomers to the marque become lasting aficionados.

 

[Greg S]

I use my bikes for randonneuring among other things. One of the considerations that guides equipment choices is what I call the "2 AM pissing down rain test" as in "do you want to be changing batteries in that headlight at 2 AM when it's pissing down rain?" or "do you want to be using that mini-pump to reinflate the tire when it's 2 AM pissing down rain?" - you get the idea.

Fixing a front wheel flat on the Cruzbike definitely doesn't pass it. Tubeless with associated aids (plugs) helps reduce the likelihood of a flat but doesn't do anything to solve the problem when it happens.

And yes, I have had a flat when it's 2 AM pissing down rain, just not on the Cruzbike.

 

[3bs]

@Greg S totally agree with the test. i have had a couple flats on the front of my v20 in "less than optimum" conditions. but i think my risk threshold is higher, as i still run tubes and that little mini pump.

 

[Robert Holler]

Lots of factors can make a wheel change harder or easier depending on the dropout design, proximity of other mounts, etc etc. I don't find a Cruzbike front wheel particularly harder than some other recumbents. The derraieur you use has an impact too. The SRAM stock one we use has a cage lock which relieves the chain. Try changing a rear wheel with one of the newer Shimano's and the funky linkage they have adopted - ugh.

Any "new to me" bike I go out on - I do 3-4 pops of the wheels in and out to make sure I am well versed.

Video of the wheel change:

 

[trplay]

Very good video that shows how easy it really is. When people talk about how hard it is I know they simply haven't taken the time to understand how the wheel is suppose to go on. A little practice is all it takes.

 

[Robert Holler]

Part of keeping the front end together is just holding the front end close to the pivot clamp, and if it comes undone - not panicking.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Part of keeping the front end together is just holding the front end close to the pivot clamp, and if it comes undone - not panicking.

Anyone gotta video explaining how not to panic once that thing comes undone would be great.

 

[billyk]

i think it is a fair generalization to say that historically cruzbike owners are more bike geekish, or more techier, or more tinkerers

I'll go with "people who enjoy tinkering with their bikes about as much as riding them".

(I used to be this way with cars, before they put computers in them. What'll we do when this comes to bicycles? https://youtu.be/3H3KhEXDE2)

I use the ziptie method. It's easy, it works, if you use a black one it's invisible ... and in the spirit of @3bs' comment I'm kind of glad to have the chance to improve the design. No principled objection.

On the other hand, our willingness to accept the need to tinker is probably part of the reason the market for these bikes is limited.

 

[Frito Bandito]

As much as I tinkered with my DF bike, my helmet and other things I guess I knew it was only a matter of time before I got a recumbent. I thought I was going to need to use the zip tie method also, and still might at some point since the first 2 attempts at reassembling the front triangle took about 3 hours combined, 1 of which was laying flat on some cardboard in front of a bike shop. However the most recent took about 3 minutes after doing it the way shown in the video I think on page 1 with the bike upright. Keeping everything lined up while trying to get the skewer into the non-drive side was the hard part, but I see light at the end of the tunnel and after 2 or 3 more relapses I should be a recovering klutz instead of the other kind.

 

[paco1961]

Important bit missing from the above discussion is wheel choice. If you’re a rim brake aficionado, you can use a 130mm hub spacing and the wheel slides in and out, no problem. But there does not seem to be such an animal as a 130 disc hub. Disc wheels are 135 spacing and require spreading of the fork legs during a wheel change. That’s where the problem is greatest.

Using a RD w cage lock, (Sram) helps a whole lot by removing one moving part.

Easiest arrangement is rim brake (130mm) plus cage lock. Disc brake w/o cage lock, out on the road, in the rain, with cold hands . . . Call UberX!