LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
I do not really know, but I am doubt the V20c will have a 2-speed hub,
I would not be surprised if the stock build has a 1x11 or 1x12 setup however - which seems to be where most "racing" models are going to
How to make your Vendetta as fast as possible
- Thread starter Tor Hovland
- Start date
I would not be surprised if the stock build has a 1x11 or 1x12 setup however - which seems to be where most "racing" models are going to
Makes sense.
I just upgraded my upright to 12 speed and am waiting for parts to do my bent. Been thinking 50T front on bent with 11-39 Rotor 12 speed cassette would work for almost all of my riding although a bigger chainring would been helpful on a TT. A 44 or 46T and 10-33 or 10-36 AXS cassette would also work for me but I am a slogger
I just upgraded my upright to 12 speed and am waiting for parts to do my bent. Been thinking 50T front on bent with 11-39 Rotor 12 speed cassette would work for almost all of my riding although a bigger chainring would been helpful on a TT. A 44 or 46T and 10-33 or 10-36 AXS cassette would also work for me but I am a slogger
M.J
Well-Known Member
I see what you did there.
AlexisBV
Active Member
I just stumbled upon this relatively old quote, and it got me thinking... how far is too far? I've been riding a S30 for years, and the upcoming new Vendetta has got me considering it. I'm not a particularly strong rider (though TrainerRoad throught the winter helps immensely), so how concerned should I be in terms of adaptation and power loss due to being more laid back on a V?
Tor Hovland
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth, I find I ouput about 10% less power on the Vendetta compared to my upright bike, when I ride at about 2/3 of FTP, but I still go about 10% faster.
There's a double metric century I've done several times. The two fastest times were solo on the Cruzbike and in a group of 4 on uprights. The speeds were roughly the same. Power and heart rate were a little higher on the upright. Power average was 60% of FTP. Weighted power was 66% of FTP. My point is that even though you may struggle to keep the same power on the Vendetta, the difference isn't going to be huge, and what you lose is more than made up for in speed. And less fatigue, allowing you to go longer.
It would be interesting to do some proper FTP testing across both bikes, but I haven't done that.
chicorider
Zen MBB Master
I own and ride both a V20 and S30. Both are fast, efficient, climb well, and gobble up miles. I've done several centuries on each, with similar results and perceived fatigue. For me, the V20 is a little more fun to ride, and when speed and distance really matter, like for a double century, I do go with the V. When a ride is more social, I go for the S30.
The handlebar has already been mentioned. I tried several bars and the one that is best for me is a Cinelli Pista bar. It has a long reach, so that my arms are streched and the elbows are out of the wind. I ride the 40 cm wide version. Another advantage of this bar is that it is super stiff, and thus improving climbing and sprinting efficiency. The drawback of this bar is that it is not really a bar for Weightweenies, roundabout 300 g (for me is worth every gram).
I saved some weight by cutting down the bottom bracket tube. I have now ~10 cm overlap between bottom bracket tube and slider. That saved nearly 300 go for my size.
Aero items are the Racecase (with that, the bike is usually classified as unfaired bike for competitions) and the Moosepack. In combination with a clean area under the seat (no bottle cage) that saved some watts.
I saved some weight by cutting down the bottom bracket tube. I have now ~10 cm overlap between bottom bracket tube and slider. That saved nearly 300 go for my size.
Aero items are the Racecase (with that, the bike is usually classified as unfaired bike for competitions) and the Moosepack. In combination with a clean area under the seat (no bottle cage) that saved some watts.
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LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
I think the Vendetta 20 degree seat angle is a real sweet spot, once you start going lower than that you can really feel the difference in power production - especially for all day ridding. There are also other factors that come into play when you are flatter: less visibility, and the inability to get you face directly in to the wind (which leads to more air under your visor and more drag)
Bill Wightman
Well-Known Member
I have to agree. For a long time I had my seat modified/drilled for about ten degrees. Going up hills was more awkward and balance and power were more difficult. I think it was more aero, just not faster. I put the seat back to 20 degrees and it is way more fun to ride and speed is just as fast.
On the issue of aero mods, I have a thin carbon sheet head fairing in the shape of a truncated taper (in cross-section it is an inverted "U" shape) off the back of the helmet (mounted to the neck cushion structure). It occupies the same space as the race case except that it is higher at the top to about mid-head height. I (barely) keep up with a fast young peloton of conventional DF riders on Tues nights. I did a little experiment and removed the above head fairing. At about 20 miles into the 35 mile ride I just got blown off the back. That has never happened with the fairing. That little fairing smooths some of the only really turbulent flow (behind the neck and head) on the V20. I am putting it back on next week.
Don1
Guru
Bill... We need a picture.....
Bill Wightman
Well-Known Member
The plate at the bottom right of the picture is horizontal so you can see there is a lot of up and down slope and much less taper along center body plane (tilt your head CCW ~30 degrees to get a normal view). The longest bent sheet came first, then the shorty behind the neck to close the gap a bit. Inside it I have a big water bladder that is pressure assisted by some bungee chords. It all works very well. The fairing is functional but easy to make from simple thin carbon sheet, kapton tape, and lots of sticky Velcro ( the Velcro lets me take it off to refill the bladder). It weighs very little.
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Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
That looks pretty snazzy Mr. Bill. It's great to see how everyone is cleaning up that area behind the head and shoulders. It would be great to see how you mounted it. I love using velcro too since it is light, strong and durable, as well as easy to buy, replace and apply without any tools.
I bought an X-Lab Kompact Triathlon system that will fit on CB's Performance Adjustable headrest (barely) because it is wider than the stock headrest bars and is strong enough to handle a bit of weight. The supplied X-Lap Vulcan water bottle cage is big enough to hold Nike's 900ml bottle tightly which should be enough for up to 50km or so depending on the temperature. The Kompact system attaches to the bar with adjustable velcro straps, but I added a wrap or 2 of electrical tape on the bars so it doesn't slide around. By itself, the whole system isn't that aero other than simply having a bottle behind your head to fill in bit of space, but it is a durable base to connect a custom decently sized handmade tailbox similar to yours.
I bought an X-Lab Kompact Triathlon system that will fit on CB's Performance Adjustable headrest (barely) because it is wider than the stock headrest bars and is strong enough to handle a bit of weight. The supplied X-Lap Vulcan water bottle cage is big enough to hold Nike's 900ml bottle tightly which should be enough for up to 50km or so depending on the temperature. The Kompact system attaches to the bar with adjustable velcro straps, but I added a wrap or 2 of electrical tape on the bars so it doesn't slide around. By itself, the whole system isn't that aero other than simply having a bottle behind your head to fill in bit of space, but it is a durable base to connect a custom decently sized handmade tailbox similar to yours.
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Bill Wightman
Well-Known Member
I cannot explain exactly how it is mounted (because it is a mess) but I used heavy zip ties at four points to hold a ~.19" thick carbon fiber plate that projects backward and mounts everything else. It has only come out of position once when I plunged into a large pothole and two of the zip ties popped (and got a pinch flat in the back). I doubled up on all the zip ties after that. Using carbon-epoxy laminate board for structure adds very little weight and is very stiff. I use little aluminum bolted ell shapes to attach at right angles (they can be bent for other angles). Have not done any significant epoxy work or exotic shapes, just stuff you can cut, drill, tape, and bolt together.
Like you I have bottles behind the head area (they are the aero type) but I found that I could never get them back in the holder while pedaling because I personally need two hands on the handlebars to pedal, otherwise I am coasting. It was a fumbling around problem. I ended up leaving the bottles back there for very long rides where I assumed I could fill and only use when I stopped (has never happened). I also left them there because I did a timed loop and it was a little faster with the bottles than without (very subjective test).
Like you I have bottles behind the head area (they are the aero type) but I found that I could never get them back in the holder while pedaling because I personally need two hands on the handlebars to pedal, otherwise I am coasting. It was a fumbling around problem. I ended up leaving the bottles back there for very long rides where I assumed I could fill and only use when I stopped (has never happened). I also left them there because I did a timed loop and it was a little faster with the bottles than without (very subjective test).
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
It took me a few tries to get my bottle back in the cage quickly, and unless I'm really tired I get it in without much fuss now. I've been doing it enough now that I can keep pedaling.
It seems straight forward enough but so far I have never done any epoxy work. Just when I was seriously thinking of making a tail box the nearby shop that carried the CF sheets closed and getting some now requires a pretty big hike. Plus, I need a few Youtube University classes on CF. My first attempt will be as simple as possible. I might drill holes in the X-Lab bars to connect it with bolts, but I may just wrap them in velcro after molding the CF base plate to the bars so they indent it for a larger contact area, and then connect the sides, bottom and top.
It seems straight forward enough but so far I have never done any epoxy work. Just when I was seriously thinking of making a tail box the nearby shop that carried the CF sheets closed and getting some now requires a pretty big hike. Plus, I need a few Youtube University classes on CF. My first attempt will be as simple as possible. I might drill holes in the X-Lab bars to connect it with bolts, but I may just wrap them in velcro after molding the CF base plate to the bars so they indent it for a larger contact area, and then connect the sides, bottom and top.
The wheel covers on the trike are still holding up. I am surprised that I have only had to replace the window film on one wheel once. The window film is only on the inside of the front wheels, everywhere else is Monokote. I suppose it is more protected there. It just is not practical to repair the window film, but it is cheap and easy to replace. Unfortunately, it looks like crap. The Monokote is easily repairable, and now I am to the point of having patches on patches, but from a couple feet away, it still looks good. Using rubber cement was a bad idea, but I have not taken the time to find a better solution. Needless to say, aero is not so important on an indoor trainer, so no wheel covers on the "V"...
VasancityAcadamey
New Member
To maximize the speed of your Vendetta, focus on upgrading engine performance with a high-quality air intake and exhaust system. Optimize the fuel system for efficiency, and consider tuning the engine for increased horsepower. Upgrade the suspension and tires for better handling at high speeds. Regular maintenance, including oil changes and brake checks, is crucial for peak performance. Lastly, reduce the overall weight by removing unnecessary items to enhance acceleration and top speed.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
Air intake = lungs
exhaust = well, you know...
fuel system = carbs
increased horsepower = higher FTP
suspension = 700c rims instead of 650b
tires = Conti GP5000... TLR of course
Regular maintenance = waxing the chain and cleaning the brake pads.
Weight removal = use CF instead of aluminum when possible.
chicorider
Zen MBB Master
Thank you for translating AI. 
I use gear ties because I don't want to carry wire cutters with me to remove the zip tie.
