How to make your Vendetta as fast as possible

[Frito Bandito]

Got my Oracover (Japan's version of Monokote) so I will get either my 50mm or 80mm Bullet "disced" up soon. The covering isn't quite large enough to reach the brake tracks like I hoped, but it is wide enough to do either the 50mm or 80mm wheel. The only difference between them is depth, so I don't know which would be faster. The 80mm has new bearings and a tubeless Conti 5000 on it already while the 50mm has a sealant filled tubed Michelin Power Competition tubeless tire (couldn't get it to seat).

 

[vosadrian]

You'd have to go with the faster tyre for the faster covered wheel!

 

[jond]

I recently started using MyWindsock premium (US$15 a year) as an addon to my Strava. It gives a CdA calculation to rides on Strava automatically (if you ride with a power meter)... so much simpler than loading data into other tools that do this. It also seems to be pretty consistent. I like it so far. Might be a good tool for those wanting to make their Vendetta as fast as possible!

Anyway, I am able to go through some history of riding on the V20. Unfortunately recent COVID restrictions in Sydney have prevented me from riding some of my faster riding loops. Just before that restrictions, I did two rides on my fast loop with the only change being going from my OEM V20 wheel/tyre setup to my Roval 50mm carbon wheels with tubeless tyres. This loop is around 80kms with a 20km section by a major motorway with wind assistance from passing traffic (large island between traffic directions, so only near vehicles going in the same direction) which probably enhances CdA calculations. Old wheels came back with 0.166 CdA. Rovals with 0.147. Unfortunately I was unable to continue any testing on this loop after that. My new loops are on lower quality road surface, and more hilly with less traffic related wind. At the same time as I started riding the new loops, I fitted the Brain Box bag. This is quite a large bag, and I am quite short, so in my case, it is higher than my shoulders and exposed to clean air flow (even with the bottom just above the tyre). The brain box did allow me to remove the under seat bottle cage which was also in clean air. On the new loops I am getting consistent CdA in the 0.17-0.19 range. Probably variation due to changes in clothing and weather. Unfortunately I cannot determine if the increase in CdA is due to the change in riding conditions or due to the addition of the brain box. I will test this at some point when restrictions are reduced.

For me the Brain Box is much larger than I need for normal riding. I think it is a good size for long rides that may have variation in temperature and I would then need to carry clothing, so I am glad to have it (can fit in 10 minutes). But normally when I ride it is empty except for my hydration pack and my phone (I have the moose pack for my tools/spares). I would like something smaller that can carry a 1.5L bladder and not much else, but completely out of the clean air. The race case looks like it hits the mark, but for me in Australia, the CB website is quoting me >AU$500 delivered, which is very expensive (the brain box was <$100 delivered). Has anyone farbicated a nice rear pack that is aero and can just hold a 1.5-2L bladder? A nice quality off the shelf bag like the brain box but half the size would also be good. I do prefer soft case options over hard options that rattle and are more likely to crack/break.

Hi vossi.
None other than John Tolhurst the designer of the vendetta made a small carry all for two bidons out of corflute and aluminium stock. It was used by Maria Parker and copied over. Unfortunately all the old photos have disappeared for me of these original rear of neckrest storage ideas.

 

[vosadrian]

Thanks JD,

I have some ideas. The standard tube for the head rest appears to be 19mm. I've found some 19mm aluminium clamps that can clamp two tubes togeather: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/313588843915

I did my previous ride on the stock neck rest (instead of the adjustable previously), and it went better than expected (previously I could not get it to work, but I think I have gotten more used to the bike and changed position of things and it is now better). Thinking of getting some 19mm tube and bending into a shape like a panier rack and then clamping onto the neck rest near where it enters the frame. Then I can fab a box shape on top of that out of alumium stock. Probably clad it in corflute initially to get it how I want it.... then I might try the carbon treatment later a per Rick Youngblood referenced above.

Idea is to get something that sits just above the rear wheel and below the height of myshoulders, but make it wider behind shoulders and narrower at back, so it is in the wind shadow of my body, but may help clean up turbulance. I want it just big enough to fit a 2L bladder and maybe another 1-2L of space for food, phone, wallet etc.

If nothing else, it will give me something to do during lockdown!

 

[vosadrian]

Oh, I should have mentioned above.... ride with the simple neck rest and no rear box, got my best CdA of 0.172 (with MyWindSock) on my new loop. So I think the brain box the way I had it mounted (above my short bodied shoulders) is more drag then having nothing on the back. Note that I have previously gotten CdA lower on my old loop with nothing on the back (down around 0.15), but it is better road surface (lower Crr), and has longer sections with wind assistance from passing traffic. I'm hoping with more aero rear box and the Yoeleo 88mm wheels, I should be able to get to around the 0.16-0.17 level consistently. This is all so I can beat Jon in the 12+12 race later this year!!

 

[ed72]

Oh, I should have mentioned above.... ride with the simple neck rest and no rear box, got my best CdA of 0.172 (with MyWindSock) on my new loop. So I think the brain box the way I had it mounted (above my short bodied shoulders) is more drag then having nothing on the back. Note that I have previously gotten CdA lower on my old loop with nothing on the back (down around 0.15), but it is better road surface (lower Crr), and has longer sections with wind assistance from passing traffic. I'm hoping with more aero rear box and the Yoeleo 88mm wheels, I should be able to get to around the 0.16-0.17 level consistently. This is all so I can beat Jon in the 12+12 race later this year!!

Interesting the higher CdA with the brain box. Not exactly useful but I found that the drag on my M5 tailbox is higher with winds from the side. I would "guess" that a small tailbox behind the head and inside the shoulder width with enough volume for a hydration bladder, rain jacket, and tire repair stuff would be the overall fastest on real roads. This is not easy to measure outside a wind tunnel, so, I cannot give precise numbers but very interesting that you have come to a similar conclusion.

 

[vosadrian]

I think in my case, the brain box was higher than my shoulders and that was the reason it MAY be slower. I say MAY, because I think more testing would be required. I have some better loops that are straighter, flatter and better road surface that I do not have access to currently. I still set some good PRs with the brain box on the back, so I think it was quick still... probably around 0.015 worse than nothing?

The race case looks pretty good to me. If it were cheaper for me I would get it. But for the money it costs to get to Australia, I can probably make something up I would be happier with. If the race case had better support for a bladder rather than bottles, I would probably still go that way. I have to admit that I like the look of the previous less boxy race case than the current generation. It would be nice if they had some interchangable top on it where you could either use it as a bottle holder (as it is default) or a lid with a large opening that can take a bladder and prevent rain getting in if you have some clothing in there which is the way I would prefer it. So I will probably try to make something up myself instead.

 

[jond]

Rick Youngblood’s craftsmanship is terrific. His is the gold standard of home build excellence. Good luck vossi.

Not to put too much pressure on young fella but if you don’t lap a near sixty year old you lose

motivation is difficult with this lockdown. I’m getting slacker by the day excuses I know. But how often do you get to share a track with a fellow vendetta pilot. I hope the event goes ahead. Either way mate we will get to ride together soon enough. I’m retiring March 2022 so I’ll have more time for revenge ha ha. See you soon it will be really nice to finally meet.

 

[vosadrian]

I see how this works..... lull me into a false sense of security and then smash me!

I'm keen to ride with you as much as we can at 12+12. I think it would look great to have the two Vs out on the track. Should create some interest!! Hopefully some photographers there. If we can ride in a line (if not a pace line) with other bents, that would be great. Would be great to surprise some DFs!

I'm using riding as my break from this lockdown. I've recently lifted from 150k a week to >200. It is frustrating to not be able to do some of my favourite loops. I really only have hilly ride loops to do, and I don't enjoy the hills on this bike as much as my DF. So there is some motivation required for that. I enjoy on my faster loops cruising at 150-200W for an hour or so. The hilly loops are like 300W, coast, rinse and repeat 100 times. So it is hard work most of the time. Would be good to have a cruisey loop once a week.

My Yoeleos are on the way finally. Hopefully I can ride them in a couple of weeks. Will be interesting to see how they effect CdA. It will take me a while to get a custom tail box sorted. And I expect it will be ugly at first. I kind of want to make it structurally out of alluminium and clad it with whatever at first, and then eventually try the carbon thing to make it pretty. I want to make something that is practical and enhances aero without too much weight.... but I don't want it to look like a fairing in any way. Something a bit like the rail gun box for the M5.

 

[GetBent]

Completed a century yesterday. In the process, picked up 4 more holes in the Monokote (for a total of 9), one in the window film, and another rock trapped in between the covers. Fortunately, the Monokote is easily repaired. I have about 300 miles on the wheel covers.

Monokote vs window film:

The bright yellow Monokote increases my visibility, and it looks cool. It also happens to match my Brain Box, and parts of the frame.
The window film is less expensive, is ugly (you can see the double stick tape, and the cut up "No Trespassing" sign used for the hub and the valve stem door), and not as easy to repair as the Monokote.

Adhesives:

Best: Rubber cement with a bead of super glue around the circumference of the Monokote.
2nd Best: The double stick tape that came with the window film.
Dead last and not recommended: Rubber cement.

I am looking around for a better way to attach the Monokote/window film to the rims, as I am not happy with the three methods I have tried. I am guessing the wheel covers will need to be completely replaced by the time the winter rain hits, if not sooner.

Conclusion:

For cheap, light weight covers, this works, but be prepared to spend time repairing them.

 

[M.J]

The only trouble I've had with mine was after a ride in the rain one of the covers got floppy and started to come away from the glue that was holding it. I haven't had a puncture in the covers yet in over two months and around a thousand miles of use.

 

[M.J]

I think in my case, the brain box was higher than my shoulders and that was the reason it MAY be slower. I say MAY, because I think more testing would be required. I have some better loops that are straighter, flatter and better road surface that I do not have access to currently. I still set some good PRs with the brain box on the back, so I think it was quick still... probably around 0.015 worse than nothing?

From my testing (not with sciency stuff, just lots of miles and paying attention), the benefit of the brainbox seems to be that it keeps the air tumbling off the shoulders separate from the air coming up from under the bike. Not too long ago, I took my 'Box off and put a flat vertical splitter in its place to test this theory. The splitter seemed to make very little difference over having nothing behind the seat and when I put the 'Box back on I went back to the "always a tailwind" feel that I'm used to.
The Cruzbike wind tunnel smoke pics also show the air getting very mixed up and turbulent where it comes together behind the rider from over and under the bike.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Finally making a bit of progress on mine. I have the two caps near the hubs glued on snugly to the spokes. My first try at applying the Oracover sheet was pretty disastrous, so I started over. The hair dryer I was using couldn't quit get up to temperature to remove the wrinkles except for the small ones. My 2nd attempt is going better, and the Oracover is sticking to the CF nicely, even if it has some wrinkles. 1 trick I used was that since the Oracover wasn't sticking to the spokes well, I cut thin strips of double sided tape to put on the spokes. That is holding really well. It is much faster using a clothes iron instead of a hair dryer though. Hopefully I can get most of the wrinkles out of the Oracover that is on the CF though.

 

[GetBent]

The only trouble I've had with mine was after a ride in the rain one of the covers got floppy and started to come away from the glue that was holding it. I haven't had a puncture in the covers yet in over two months and around a thousand miles of use.

Interesting.

I am using Super Monokote by Top Flite.

Maybe we just have more rocks in the PNW?

 

[vosadrian]

From my testing (not with sciency stuff, just lots of miles and paying attention), the benefit of the brainbox seems to be that it keeps the air tumbling off the shoulders separate from the air coming up from under the bike. Not too long ago, I took my 'Box off and put a flat vertical splitter in its place to test this theory. The splitter seemed to make very little difference over having nothing behind the seat and when I put the 'Box back on I went back to the "always a tailwind" feel that I'm used to.
The Cruzbike wind tunnel smoke pics also show the air getting very mixed up and turbulent where it comes together behind the rider from over and under the bike.

I think the brain box is definately a benefit for people whose shoulders are higher than mine. I look at the pic of your bike, and you have a seat that kicks up at the back and appears to put your shoulders higher. Also, I think you are probably taller than me. The brain bag is quite tall, and when coupled with my low head height, it comes up to just below my ears even when I position it as low as possible just above the tyre. As a result, it is in the clean air for me. I need something that is like the brain bag, but just not as tall so it is around my shoulder height. I think that will be faster than nothing on back for me. I would still plan to use the brain box at times when I need more storage. I am thinking of doing some endurance riding, and the brain box has plenty of storage for that.

 

[GetBent]

1 trick I used was that since the Oracover wasn't sticking to the spokes well, I cut thin strips of double sided tape to put on the spokes. That is holding really well. It is much faster using a clothes iron instead of a hair dryer though.

I did not stick the Monokote to the spokes, just the hub and the rim. I used my old Monokote iron (from high school-ish model airplane days) for sticking to the rim and hub, and for repairs. I use a heat gun for larger areas. If I used a clothes iron, that would be de facto evidence that I know how to use a clothes iron, and thus would be expected to do so....

 

[Frito Bandito]

Smart man! My big mouth gets my stupid butt in trouble all the time and I didn't consult the Man Manual beforehand, so right out of the gate I shot myself in the foot. I bet the smoothness not only looks nicer but is a tad bit more aero than connected to the spokes.

For the other side I will try it without the 2-sided tape on the spokes. So far, the 1 side is holding up well. Oracover comes in 2m rolls, probably enough to cover only 2 wheels. I can't believe how fast the iron worked though after trying it with a weak hair dryer. I wish I could have it completed for today's ride, but it will have to wait.

 

[M.J]

Finally making a bit of progress on mine. I have the two caps near the hubs glued on snugly to the spokes. My first try at applying the Oracover sheet was pretty disastrous, so I started over. The hair dryer I was using couldn't quit get up to temperature to remove the wrinkles except for the small ones. My 2nd attempt is going better, and the Oracover is sticking to the CF nicely, even if it has some wrinkles. 1 trick I used was that since the Oracover wasn't sticking to the spokes well, I cut thin strips of double sided tape to put on the spokes. That is holding really well. It is much faster using a clothes iron instead of a hair dryer though. Hopefully I can get most of the wrinkles out of the Oracover that is on the CF though.

You don't need to stick it to the spokes, man. Doing so will probably just invite more opportunities for it to tear when you're shrinking it. Just glue or tape it at the hub and rim.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I will do that for the other side M.J. I wasn't really thinking of the aesthetics or aerodynamics when doing it. I was just thinking of making sure it stays connected. Kinda like Austin Powers trying to remove the Queen's wig.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Finally got the Oracover on my 80mm Bullet. It looks okay and I love that it is light, but those small wrinkles...
I will ride with it until it gets too damaged, but I am already thinking of another option.