Introduction and some questions

[bladderhead]

sleeping on longer rides

People in the street shout at me about going to sleep while riding.

travelling with a bicycle is lilean travelling with a dead body

If it is a folder it is like a person who did yoga.

 

[bladderhead]

I hate getting off and pushing it. I ride up some steep ones and I have COPD, so I go slowly. I could probably walk faster. I got a 38t ring and a 42t cog and learnt to go slow and pedal smooth. This is also a useful skill if you are commuting.

 

[ed72]

People in the street shout at me about going to sleep while riding.

If you aren't supposed to sleep riding a Velo Couche, they should change the name.

This was just a 20 minute nap climbing out of Brest. HaHa

 

[Greg S]

Something to consider then is riding the bent through the steep stuff as if you’re on wireless shifting and trying to save the batteries. Surge into the steep stuff and power through with fewer down shift then relax a bit more on the easier parts saving your legs instead of shifting to a taller gear and maintaining effort. It’s a similar method as when I race the single speed MTB and when you only have one gear and are forced to rest when your gearing tops out you quickly learn how surprising hard you can go in shorter burst multiple times as long as to recover between. If you struggle with this in the S40 then practice the same in your DF by reducing shifting and powering through by getting out of the saddle. Force yourself to continue standing longer then normal and get familiar with that feeling of lower cadence high power because that’s what’s needed to use the method above.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. It sounds like similar advice I got from a friend that rides a velomobile (and is really fast on it). The only difficulty here is that the profile for most of the climbs is a gradual 2-3% for 1/2 mile or so before you hit the steeper part so it's hard to hit the steep part running. You've already come down several gears but not quite as low as you'll go.

I tried to upload some screenshots showing what I'm talking about but once again hit the forum spam filters ("you are not allowed" or similar message) so I'll describe it instead (and yes, one picture is in fact worth a thousand words).

The first shot was of the steeper part of a climb that's typical. In fact, this climb or one just like it is in the first 5 miles of every route I can take with the exception of riding on the shoulder of the highway. The steeper part of the climb is .5 mile long with an average gradient of 8.3%. The full climb is 1.6 miles long with an average of 4.8%

 

[benphyr]

... (and yes, one picture is in fact worth a thousand words)....

Sorry Greg that's only 192 words = less than 1/5th of a photo...
More seriously, can one of the moderators (nudge @Lucia) look into getting @Greg S some posting abilities. I for one would like to see his pictures.

@ Greg S It used to be 10 posts and you would be golden but I'm not sure if that is still the case. You have posted 8 messages so poke fun of me a couple times and then give pictures a try again.

 

[LMT]

Hi Greg

Regarding the bike box, I've travelled all over with my S40 and V20 on eight separate flights and what I did was as follows:-

Get two standard carboard bike boxes from your local bike shop.

Buy six -seven rolls of duck tape

Check the dimensions, but I do believe the max dimensions that a box can be before it is considered freight is 190 x 75 x 65cm (75 x 29.5 x 25.5in), this is for reference later on.

Cut out an end of both the boxes, then slide one box inside the other. Note the above max length of 190cm.

This is the same for both the V20 and S40, you will need to remove the headrest, headset clamp, seat, chainset, slide the boom in as far as it can go and undo the handlebar bolts and hook the handlebar over the frame.

With the wheels still on the bike, put these in wheel covers. Grab a wheel cover in each hand and lift the bike into the box. You'll find that the whole bike should fit in the box, be sure that the length comes in under 190cm.

For the s40 you'll need to cut out some carboard on top of one of the boxes as the top end of the frame where the headrest goes into sticks out and the top of the fork. For the V20, depending on the height of the box you may find that the top of the fork sticks out so you may have to cut some cardboard out for this.

With the bike in the boxes adjust as necessary leaving a small gap at both ends.

Take the bike out, and being liberal with the duck tape get taping. First you want a series of 'H's at the join of the two boxes. Then wrap the whole box in duck tape both vertically and horizontally. Close the top of the box when taping to keep the box nice and rigid. At the end of this you should have a box with top down, Join taped and the whole thing covered in duck tape.

Cut the top flap of the box and reopen, admire the bike box you have just created, double check it comes in under the dimensions above (which it should)

Lift the bike into the box complete with wheel covers to protect the wheels. By eye with the bike still in the box, cut the openings for the top of the seat and/or the top of the fork for the S40 and V20 respectively. If you do have the top of the frame/fork sticking out be sure to protect these with bubble wrap. I found old socks worked well covering the frame/frame secured with some duck tape.

Fill the box with your stuff, bottles, tools, shoes, helmet etc, Wrap the seat in bubble wrap and pack, like wise for the chainset and headrest although you may want to check this in if you wish separately.

Fill the box with bubblewrap, in particular around the wheels and filling any voids, old newspaper also works well. Re tape down the top flap, put some fragile tape around the box and you should be good to go.

See the pic for when I was at LAX, it was my S40, you can see the top of the frame. fork and the join.

And welcome.

 

[LMT]

Just noted a typo with the above, you will need to remove the boom and slider as well as the headset clamp. Pack all three items and protect the top of the fork.

 

[Greg S]

I can only say to you Greg to hang in there. Practice balance drills. Your climbing will get better. My front derailleur failed on PBP, I did it in the big ring (53 teeth). Destroyed the RS4X rotor in the process. When I first started riding bents, such would have been absolutely unimaginable. Once again.....practice riding really, really slow. If you can bring your stall speed from 5 mph to 3.5 mph, the required comes down enormously. Did I say practice balance drills? GL.

Thanks. Good advice which I intend to follow.

 

[Greg S]

Thanks @leetaylor55 for the detailed description and picture. As a matter of fact, I saw a rider with a Cruzbike at a 1200K and he had done exactly what you described. This was last year and a Cruzbike wasn't on my radar at the time so I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to how he'd packed it but did notice (a) he'd used two standard bike shipping boxes and (b) he'd used a bunch of duct tape!

Great suggestion and thanks again for the details (and welcome).

 

[Greg S]

I for one would like to see his pictures.

I'll try again, here they are:

Steeper part of the climb:

Full climb:

As I said previously, these are what I'd characterize as "average" climbs in the area and typical in that they have a somewhat longer section at lower gradient before you hit the steep part. Because of that, it's hard to hit the bottom of the steep part with any kind of momentum. Unless I'm really attacking the climb, even on a DF I get to the steep part going perhaps 9-11 MPH then am in the 6-9 MPH range on the climb depending on how hard I want to go. Based on my limited experience so far, I think I could probably replicate the first part on the Cruzbike but the second would take some work/training on my part.

 

[Greg S]

@paco1961 thanks for the pictures of your bike on the shop stand. Another friend also sent me some pictures so it's clear to me now how to mount it. I previously tried to use the Park Pro Team stand in the same way as the Bacchetta (front dropouts locked in and the frame resting on the BB holder with the rear wheel hanging freely so the cranks could be turned) but that obviously didn't work for the Cruzbike. Think I've got the idea now, thanks!

I've not counted (afraid to really) but I think the "n" in my n+1 starts with a 2.

 

[Bill K]

I can't add much to what has already been said (without, well, duplicating much of it).
I also switch between DF's and V20 / S40. The S40 is my go-to commuter, and the DF is nicer when it is cold, dark and raining since your can point your face toward the ground to avoid rain. It makes for a better clamshell.
Going slow up a hill: you can improve your low speed balance by lifting your head slightly off the headrest and tilting you head more vertically. This helps a lot.
Next, you can sit up which improves balance at low speed even more, and it transfers weight to the front wheel improving traction.
I can handle about a 15% grade on wet pavement. Beyond that I'm using my 24-inch gear ("two feet").
Oh, and Welcome!

 

[paco1961]

I rarely switch back to a DF due to the original motivation for my switch to CB - saddle induced pain. Blew out a wheel in a race this summer and while waiting for my replacement rim decided to hop on a DF Singlespeed for a spin. My first reaction after being of DFs for more than a year was . . . Holy crap. This thing is a death trap! I felt like any moment I was going to end up nose down on the pavement. But after a few miles the terror subsided and by the end of 30 miles I felt fine again, except of course for my neck, shoulders and wrists that were totally out of DF shape. Oh, and that saddle . . .

So the moral of the story is if you’re going to switch back and forth, don’t go 18 months on any 1 platform. After all, crosstraining is a good thing if you can do it.

 

[Greg S]

So the moral of the story is if you’re going to switch back and forth, don’t go 18 months on any 1 platform. After all, crosstraining is a good thing if you can do it.

Yeah, I think that's the ticket. As I said earlier, the ideal (for me) would be that I alternate between the DF and Cruzbike and am able to pick either for a ride based on criteria other than my ability to successfully complete the ride e.g., terrain, do I want to ride with others, whim, etc.

At this point (which I admit is incredibly early) I don't feel that I'm sufficiently acclimated to the Cruzbike to be able to finish a long ride on it. It's my hope that will change and it'll be one of a fairly small number of bikes that I consider riding when planning a long brevet.

The real key (for me) is how quickly I can switch back and forth. As mentioned earlier, there are two 1200K's I'm planning on doing next year that are about 2.5 weeks apart. The first is ideal for the Cruzbike, the second for a DF. I'd really like to be able to train up on the Cruzbike, do the first one and then spend a couple of weeks on the DF preparing for the second one. That'd be perfect for me.

We'll see.

My wife and I winter in Texas and I'm planning on alternating between the S40 and a DF. I am planning a 1000K in early April and a 1200K in mid-April. The first one would suit the Cruzbike, the second a DF. I'll decide what I'm going to do based on how the riding goes between now and then.

I'll once again express my appreciation for all of the comments I've received. They've given me no small amount of confidence that what I want to do isn't nuts and that the Cruzbike is well suited to riding where I live and how I ride. That means a lot to me and I'm grateful.

 

[ed72]

I'm really attacking the climb, even on a DF I get to the steep part going perhaps 9-11 MPH then am in the 6-9 MPH range on the climb depending on how hard I want to go. Based on my limited experience so far, I think I could probably replicate the first part on the Cruzbike but the second would take some work/training on my part.

Your hills are the opposite of those in my locale, mine are very steep coming out of river valleys and then they level off coming onto flat planes. The profile that you show is similar to the hills on PBP, where they are 1-2% and then 3-4% and tipping out in the 6-8% towards the top although not exactly the same. The aerodynamics of the S40 would or will eventually give you a speed advantage over your upright bike for most of the climb. I spent a lot of time with velomobiles on PBP, they would pass me on the way down and I would pass them on the way up. When riding with your rando buddies, you might need to ride ahead on the gentle part of the climb and accept that they may pass you on the climb, where you would regain on the steep part of downhill, although the math isn't really quite a zero sum game. If you are not yet faster than on your upright on the first 2/3 of the climb shown, you will be. In any case, all bets are off on a 1200k. Eventually, we have to ride our own pace. Once you get your position, seat, and adapted to the recumbent position, you won't have any neck or hand pains. Nonetheless, doing a 1200k is hard on any platform and those who extol the virtues on the recumbent position for such long rides, probably have not done a lot of such distances. You still have to pedal and still have to overcome challenges. Each platform has advantages and disadvantages, you just need more time to see the advantages of the bent position. WRT to climbing, I can say 100% for sure that on such a segment, I would blow away my personal bests on an upright for that sort of profile, but I probably would have had difficulty making it over such a climb initially. YMMV.

Half a mile at 8% cannot be jammed repeatedly on long brevets, so, you are looking at that portion being something like 5-7 minutes of climbing at tempo pace (depends on your weight and FTP). Your upright buddies would not be too much ahead of you, since you are the RBA.....they should soft pedal for a minute.

 

[Pollock]

@Greg S keep practicing with your CB. By the time April/May rolls around, you might want to do both on the CB

 

[Greg S]

@ed72 you're right that in general the area is similar to PBP. As you probably know, I was one of the organizers for the Coulee Challenge 1200K and was the route designer. The overall elevation was almost exactly the same as PBP and I'd say the climbs themselves (by design) were mostly similar. The ones I posted were typical although steeper ones abound and it would be very easy to put together routes that few could finish.

Soft pedal to wait for me? Not the crowd I ride with ;-)

 

[Greg S]

@Greg S keep practicing with your CB. By the time April/May rolls around, you might want to do both on the CB

That's my plan. I'm going to alternate between the CB and DF over the winter and see where I am come spring. You could well be right.

 

[ed72]

Soft pedal to wait for me? Not the crowd I ride with ;-)

Oddly for such a non-competitive lot, Randonneurs never seem to regroup after big climbs. At least, I find it odd.

I trust you had an MRI to rule out cervical spine/disc issues. Despite knowing I can never ride my one of a kind, custom built upright, the frame costing a full V20, I can't sell it. I suspect you have your baby, too. I get it. Hope you can switch back and forth from upright to bents. If like me, you can't, don't worry, bents are good (too) but just don't expect many to understand your desire to still ride an upwrong simply because most bentriders view an upright as an asshatchet or wedgie. None of them would believe I did PBP nonstop on an upright and my derriere was totally fine, thanks to B17, Assos T-Cento, Lantiseptic, good fit, and lots of miles. If you find you get recumbutt, look into a Thor seat. They are only about $200 and might be the best investment possible for a bent. Selectively adding bits of yoga mat in some places under the pad can help too. Once you get squared away, randonneuring on a recumbent isn't all that much different than on an upright, but it is a touch more challenging, in my opinion/experience.....what else explains the much higher DNF rates on grand randonnees for bent riders. Just don't expect someone of your fitness to take a mere couple weeks to get them there bent legs. Adaptation is far more complex, I simply don't believe the getting bent legs story.

I have never read of someone completing an SR600 on a bent, but I suspect you will be the first.

 

[Greg S]

Oddly for such a non-competitive lot, Randonneurs never seem to regroup after big climbs. At least, I find it odd.

Yeah, I agree. I had another rider (a friend) ride an entire 400K about two minutes in front of me. I'd get to a control and he'd be there, he'd leave about 2 minutes before I did. That happened at every control. I even said "we're obviously riding the same speed, hang on a couple of minutes and we'll head out together". He said "I'm going to head out but will soft pedal until you catch up". We all know how that goes.

I trust you had an MRI to rule out cervical spine/disc issues.

I think you're occasionally reading my blog, I've posted some thoughts about this there. Briefly, I'm becoming increasingly suspect that the problem in my hands is a result of a bike crash I had years ago where I broke my neck (c2/c3). I've got appointments scheduled to get checked out and an MRI or CT-Scan will hopefully be part of that. To answer the question directly: I have had a spinal scan done but the emphasis was on my lower back (s1/s2).

Despite knowing I can never ride my one of a kind, custom built upright, the frame costing a full V20, I can't sell it. I suspect you have your baby, too. I get it. Hope you can switch back and forth from upright to bents.

Yeah, definitely with you here. I've got a lot of bikes but "only" 5 that I had custom made for me. I'll never sell them, well at least not while I'm still able to ride at all. Even if it's just down to the coffee shop and back I will still enjoy riding them.

If you find you get recumbutt, look into a Thor seat. They are only about $200 and might be the best investment possible for a bent. Selectively adding bits of yoga mat in some places under the pad can help too. Once you get squared away, randonneuring on a recumbent isn't all that much different than on an upright, but it is a touch more challenging, in my opinion/experience.....what else explains the much higher DNF rates on grand randonnees for bent riders. Just don't expect someone of your fitness to take a mere couple weeks to get them there bent legs. Adaptation is far more complex, I simply don't believe the getting bent legs story.

I have never read of someone completing an SR600 on a bent, but I suspect you will be the first.

It's likely I will get a Thor seat, the big question at this point is whether I do long rides on the bent and if it turns out that I do the follow-on question is whether I get a V20 or stay with the S40, or use both. We'll see what the future holds.

I agree that the adaptation is complex. I'm still making minor tweaks to fit and am getting there. I'm in no way fully acclimated, not even close but it's coming. As I said previously, in absence of a medical conclusion (or my upcoming 600K) that I can't ride a DF long distances any more my plan is to split my rides between the bent and DF while wintering in Texas and we'll see what the future holds in the spring.

I have never read of someone completing an SR600 on a bent, but I suspect you will be the first.

Kind of you to say so, we'll see. I took a run at the Colorado Front Range SR600K and did half of it before being undone by weather/back issues. As I sit here typing I'm having a hard time visualizing myself riding a bent up some of the climbs which are both steep and extended but who knows?

Thanks for your comments.