It's here and it's: MAGIC!

[Bill Wightman]

It seems to me that this bike will be twitchy on fast descents especially in crosswinds. The important part of the front wheel to cover is the top third. Perhaps a future iteration would remove any cowling below the front axle and pull it in tighter to reduce mass and side-load from windage. Also, a tight/close fit front upper wheel fairing will reduce the moment of inertia of the front assembly making it more responsive. The twitchiness will be higher because the hip is raised relative to the shoulders, and because the center of mass is closer to the ground. Another area to improve would be to make non-gunner handlebar grip regions more aero. If you look at luge runner hands you will notice that they are tucked into a fairing under each thigh. Another issue is to remember the problem of skin drag. Excessive skin drag will kill many otherwise good concepts. The idea may be valid but the skin drag leaves it a wash. I love the single struts to the aft wheel on the Magic. I imagine the rough road damping is a dream for the head and neck of the rider.

I relocated my V20 carbon fiber seat to the same angle as the Magic about 3 months ago and had no trouble acclimating. My body now is only slightly bent at the waist with one leg in full extension. The extreme seat angle pulled up my hips about 2.25" higher from the ground and I also lowered my head about 1.5" to improve the frontal area overall which was the objective. It is still the same awesome climber (for my power capacity) and is an absolute rocket on any descent. The V20 is so much fun on rolling hills it is hard to describe to DF uprights who are powering downhill just to keep the speed up. I am limiting my downhill speeds to 45 mph as I have nowhere safe to train higher and my 60-year-old reflexes are saying "cool yer jets old man". Besides that, if I grind down my front derailleur one more time it will kill what is left of the outermost hinge. I love the unlimited ways you can do "engineering adjustments" to the V20. That's half the fun.

 

[super slim]

Larry this is a STUNNING looking, FAST bike!!
I think the rear fender will complete the project.
I think that no left chainstay is better aero wise, and the right chainstay is taking all the compression chain loads.

When will you be trying this Magic bike out in a race?

 

[ed72]

It seems to me that this bike will be twitchy on fast descents especially in crosswinds.

I am most interested in Larry's take on this after he has more road miles. It is a very good question and one that immediately came to my mind. I do not entirely pretend to know the answer but have thought about dynamics of a bent in windy conditions. I've reviewed quite a bit of the literature over the past year or so and there really isn't much research on the topic of dynamic handling response in gusty, windy conditions but there a couple papers on upright bikes that are almost relevant. The one problem doing such a study would be gaining access to a wind tunnel that can model "gusty winds". ....there might be a handful in the world. So, it comes down to personal experience and the opinion of those you trust. I am guessing the only two high performance bents that Larry has not extensively tested are the racers from Troytec and Zoncha and there are few who can ride as fast or are as daring as he.

I suspect there won't be much difference between the V20 and Magic with respect to buffeting and crosswind stability with the same bars. The normal, rhythmatic side to side movement of the V20 front wheel could in some conditions (highish yaw and bike speed) create transient behavior making buffeting slightly more likely than RWD bents...sorry if that upsets anyone. I am envisioning extreme conditions that few would see..... Magic's nose while having additional skin effect is also less likely to disturb passing air (turbulence) while at the same time shielding the wheel and somewhat minimizing the effect of the front wheel stalling due to crosswinds and/or rider rocking and rolling motions. Twitchiness say due to handlebar choice (gunner, stubby, drops) is a separate consideration that can cause a fluttering type effect when side winds buffet.

Bravo to JM and Cruzbikes for such a bold, beautiful bike. I think it is gorgeous. Some will think why spend $10k on a two wheeled creation when one can supersize and get three wheels with an enclosure for the same price to which there is no answer.

 

[LarryOz]

When will you be trying this Magic bike out in a race?

Thanks - Will Probably do the races at Northbrook velodrome in July. There is also a local "ride" but has some pretty steep the first of June. I may try and ride the course first to see how I do.

 

[LarryOz]

Twitchiness say due to handlebar choice (gunner, stubby, drops) is a separate consideration that can cause a fluttering type effect when side winds buffet.

I was hit by some huge gusts today at my local track. sustained winds where about 20-25, but on a track even those feel like gusts because at some point you have to turn and get hit by then. I almost lost control when a "huge" gust hit my right when turning. It took my breath away and caused me to stop pedaling and contemplate if I should keep riding or not. I was going pretty fast 28+mph range when this happened, and I was using my stubby handlebars. I think with the full drops there is more control, but at those speeds you have to be super alert and have a good grip on the handlebar. Pedaling at high rpm like I do (90) may also exacerbate the issue in gusts as the oscillation of the front is higher. Not sure. My worst "knock me over" was on Charlotte Motor Speedway on the Arrowhead (RWD) going about 35 around turn 3. No oscillation there - just hi speed and a big gust. I did not even have time to react - I was on the ground depositing my skin into asphalt before I knew what hit me!
I sure wish they were still doing the TT at that track. It was so fast - partly because a huge 1.5 mile oval and the turns not sharp like the track I am on now. Would love to test the Magic against the Arrowhead there. I am hoping I can talk them into letting me do a 100-Mile world record attempt there one day when not in use. We shall see.

Bravo to JM and Cruzbikes for such a bold, beautiful bike. I think it is gorgeous. Some will think why spend $10k on a two wheeled creation when one can supersize and get three wheels with an enclosure for the same price to which there is no answer.

People spend $10K for fancy DF upright bikes all the time - sometime just the frame! The answer is of course to get both! I have a Milan-SL with racing hood heading my way soon I hope.

 

[super slim]

I was hit by some huge gusts today at my local track. sustained winds where about 20-25, but on a track even those feel like gusts because at some point you have to turn and get hit by then. I almost lost control when a "huge" gust hit my right when turning. It took my breath away and caused me to stop pedaling and contemplate if I should keep riding or not. I was going pretty fast 28+mph range when this happened, and I was using my stubby handlebars. I think with the full drops there is more control, but at those speeds you have to be super alert and have a good grip on the handlebar. Pedaling at high rpm like I do (90) may also exacerbate the issue in gusts as the oscillation of the front is higher. Not sure. My worst "knock me over" was on Charlotte Motor Speedway on the Arrowhead (RWD) going about 35 around turn 3. No oscillation there - just hi speed and a big gust. I did not even have time to react - I was on the ground depositing my skin into asphalt before I knew what hit me!
I sure wish they were still doing the TT at that track. It was so fast - partly because a huge 1.5 mile oval and the turns not sharp like the track I am on now. Would love to test the Magic against the Arrowhead there. I am hoping I can talk them into letting me do a 100-Mile world record attempt there one day when not in use. We shall see.


People spend $10K for fancy DF upright bikes all the time - sometime just the frame! The answer is of course to get both! I have a Milan-SL with racing hood heading my way soon I hope.

Larry are you going to enter the next race across America in the Milan???

 

[ed72]

I am hoping I can talk them into letting me do a 100-Mile world record attempt there one day when not in use. We shall see.

I'd split the cost with you if you wish. I'd like to see if I could break 4 hours....probably just over.

You in the youngster division and I'd do the older one.

 

[jond]

I was hit by some huge gusts today at my local track. sustained winds where about 20-25, but on a track even those feel like gusts because at some point you have to turn and get hit by then. I almost lost control when a "huge" gust hit my right when turning. It took my breath away and caused me to stop pedaling and contemplate if I should keep riding or not. I was going pretty fast 28+mph range when this happened, and I was using my stubby handlebars. I think with the full drops there is more control, but at those speeds you have to be super alert and have a good grip on the handlebar. Pedaling at high rpm like I do (90) may also exacerbate the issue in gusts as the oscillation of the front is higher. Not sure. My worst "knock me over" was on Charlotte Motor Speedway on the Arrowhead (RWD) going about 35 around turn 3. No oscillation there - just hi speed and a big gust. I did not even have time to react - I was on the ground depositing my skin into asphalt before I knew what hit me!
I sure wish they were still doing the TT at that track. It was so fast - partly because a huge 1.5 mile oval and the turns not sharp like the track I am on now. Would love to test the Magic against the Arrowhead there. I am hoping I can talk them into letting me do a 100-Mile world record attempt there one day when not in use. We shall see.


People spend $10K for fancy DF upright bikes all the time - sometime just the frame! The answer is of course to get both! I have a Milan-SL with racing hood heading my way soon I hope.

Wowsers Milan sl Larry. Mate what a machine.

Think I’d go for alpha 7 or df xl better ground clearance open wheels and almost as fast but lighter. Of course this kind of speed is a dream. Till the first extended big hill.

Then the guns or Bafang cut in. Lol.

You won the lottery for sure.

And I am talking about your darling wife .

 

[ed72]

sustained winds where about 20-25, but on a track even those feel like gusts because at some point you have to turn and get hit by then

I often ride up on a ridge or like a high plateau-like area with high gusty winds in the 20-25 mph range. Coming down some hills into gullies that turn and open up (no trees) can literally move the bike 2-4 feet riding at speed, so, I tend to take the entire lane on days like that. (I ride rural roads....so, not much traffic anyways). That is about the wind speed where I start to get concerned.

I did a 200k past weekend with gusts reported up to 52 mph with sustained winds 30+. I probably should have taken the rear disc cover off but I like to learn from mistakes. The truth? I personally have gotten much better in the wind but it can be very scary at times. I walked my bike across a damp metal grated bridge on the bay because the 30-40 mph crosswind surely would have taken me down.....a gust actually lifted the bike sideways and into the air while I was walking although I did manage to hold onto it. It was bad enough that I thought maybe getting a smart trainer isn't such a bad idea.

Checking into a golf tournament in Ireland many years ago, winds were gale force 9. I asked if the tournament was cancelled and a lady behind me chirped up, "What kind oh a man ar ye, I already been 18 holes and am going out for another".......it was hard to stand in that wind. If you had it behind you for 100 miles, you might break one hour.

 

[ed72]

I'd get an SL but 6'3'' and 190 lbs might require too much grease to squeeze me in.

I bet four fast 60 year olds in velos could crack 5 days on RAAM, especially if V20's are used during the climbs.

 

[ratz]

I bet four fast 60 year olds in velos could crack 5 days on RAAM, especially if V20's are used during the climbs.

Yep Going fast with a relay.... fairly solid getting the riders.

Meanwhile the real challenge is keeping the size of the crew you need moving FASTER down course than the relay team, that is a problem. If the riders are doing 25-30mph you have to run at 85mph down course or you can't rest the crew enough or you need a gigantic crew; why because the roads the bike are on aren't always suitable for high speed travel so you have to go the long way around on the highways. The riders might able to sleep in shifts but someone has to be awake to drive when they are racing and drive when they are sleeping. The train never stops; especially hard if you are going sub 6 days.

 

[ed72]

Yep Going fast with a relay.... fairly solid getting the riders.

Meanwhile the real challenge is keeping the size of the crew you need moving FASTER down course than the relay team, that is a problem. If the riders are doing 25-30mph you have to run at 85mph down course or you can't rest the crew enough or you need a gigantic crew; why because the roads the bike are on aren't always suitable for high speed travel so you have to go the long way around on the highways. The riders might able to sleep in shifts but someone has to be awake to drive when they are racing and drive when they are sleeping. The train never stops; especially hard if you are going sub 6 days.

Good luck on the race, I'll be eagerly watching and cheering you on.

I didn't intend to imply it would be easy, just possible. Crew, logistics, finances much bigger challenge than riding.....of course.

 

[ratz]

Good luck on the race, I'll be eagerly watching and cheering you on.

I didn't intend to imply it would be easy, just possible. Crew, logistics, finances much bigger challenge than riding.....of course.

Now worries there; I was just sharing what we ran into with the Cruzbike relay team 2 years ago; I can say for sure we got caught out short with how fast they could get down the road.

 

[Opik]

https://www.zockra-factory.com/?page_id=64

Looks very similar to
Le ‘Kouign Amann from zockra

 

[Barefoot Biker]

<-- first ride

 

[ed72]

Looks fast. How does it handle in a cross wind?

 

[Barefoot Biker]

Looks fast. How does it handle in a cross wind?

No problems, but I am running wide bars - that's important imho. The pressure point is further forward than the Vendetta with gusts so, you do get more steering input from the wind. The race case is also absent so, less pressure on the tail - for now. I'm taking it very slow as I get to know this bike. I'm unable to ride no-handed yet, but I can on the V so, my brain is re-wiring itself slowly.

It is fast - very well suited to TT power. A little less "snap" accelerating than the V, but it holds onto the speed longer. My numbers match up with what @LarryOz has already measured far more extensively than I ever will. I've given a lot of feedback that will be hopefully incorporated into future Cruzbikes. This bike is not really 'turn key' in that I'm spending more time on assembly, getting the brakes working the way they should, getting it adjusted, and getting bottles where I want them, et cetera, and right now, it's one of a kind as the others are having front disc brakes - perhaps we'll get into a wind tunnel at some point and see which differences are worth including in the future!

 

[Mathew Fy]

The Magic will be featured on Gary Solomon's Laidback YouTube Feb. 2 @ 2:00 pm EDT. Featuring @LarryOz on the photo. I usually catch these videos some time later.

 

[3bs]

he is doing an interview with JM. magic and others will be conversation topics. i think larry has the most jm bikes, certainly the most modern ones.

 

[LarryOz]

he is doing an interview with JM. magic and others will be conversation topics. i think larry has the most jm bikes, certainly the most modern ones.

Not sure if the most: but I have an:
Arrowhead, Raptor, and Magic.
I used to have an Apache, Hamerhead, and M1 - but have sold them.
I also commissioned JM to build a tilting trike rear end for the Magic - I just have not had time to install it. Maybe I will bring the parts to Sebring.