knees and hills

[Weogo Reed]

Hi Folks,

I started riding a used Schwinn Varsity 10-speed in 1971.
As a competitive runner I trashed both knees(medial meniscus), and all the surgeries did was
clean up the tears and smooth things out. I continued riding, but slower, and basically stopped a couple decades ago because of knee pain on hills. Where I live(near Asheville, NC) I'm surrounded by hills.
My question is - how knee-friendly is riding a geared-down CruzBike? Slow riding would be fine with me.

Thanks and good health, Weogo

 

[LarryOz]

Hi Folks,

I started riding a used Schwinn Varsity 10-speed in 1971.
As a competitive runner I trashed both knees(medial meniscus), and all the surgeries did was
clean up the tears and smooth things out. I continued riding, but slower, and basically stopped a couple decades ago because of knee pain on hills. Where I live(near Asheville, NC) I'm surrounded by hills.
My question is - how knee-friendly is riding a geared-down CruzBike? Slow riding would be fine with me.

Thanks and good health, Weogo

Hi Weogo,
I lived in Hendersonville (for 20 years) up until 2 years ago. I learned to ride a Cruzbike in that area and loved it. (also miss it)
I also have knee problems. ACL repair 40 years ago on my left knee and now I am bone on bone. I can't walk a 1/2 mile without pain, but I can ride all day on my Vendetta and it does not both my knee. So to answer your question - yes the Cruzbike is knee friendly (actually any bike is knee friendly - as long as you don't mash the pedals at a slow rpm. It is all about gearing and all Cruzbikes take standard components.

The beauty of Cruzbike is that it is also: butt friendly, wrist friendly, neck friendly (which uprights are not!)
I live in Hilton Head now and have virtually every model Cruzbike has made. If you ever make it down here let me know - I would be happy to teach you to ride a Cruzbike and help you figure out which model would be best for you.
Kind Regards,
Larry
larryoslund@gmail.com
828-216-7860

 

[Beano]

The lowest gearing I have is 34*40 and that get's me up pretty much everything whilst maintaining a highish RPM. You can install lower gearing of course and I've installed gearing as low as a 23*46 which has you spinning out on the flats at about 5 mph but is great for going up some steep hills.

I'd also think about pedals with free float, Speedplay are the best ime and these for sure are knee friendly.

 

[2whluge]

LOL! I got my first 10 speed Schwinn Varsity in 1971 my Jr year in college.

I have meniscus tears but have avoided surgery. Use higher gearing vs mashing on hills. Moving the cleats as far back on the shoe as possible also helps.
I’d take up Larry’s offer. You can get an idea of the gearing that way.

 

[Weogo Reed]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the reply, information and offer!
A re-frame of my question - does recumbent seating make
any difference for body mechanics with respect to knees?
Part of my interest in a CruzBike is all the additional body-friendly aspects you note.

My last ride was a no-suspension, steel mountain bike with triple chainrings but
it wasn't actually geared super-low.

Temporarily I'm living in NY state, will be back at our house in Swannanoa by December.
It has been a while since we've done a beach trip - maybe when we're backwe could head to Hilton Head.

When I lived in Burkina Faso, in 1982, having a single-speed bike was kinda like having a Chevy.
There were some amazing loads carried on those bikes!
For me, the long-term goal is to, as much as possible, replace the car with a bike.
ANY bicycle is going to be far less expensive and simpler to work on than a car.

Which one CruzBike frame do you see as sturdy, reliable, can carry a load?
The S40 looks fairly striaghtforward and could take a sturdy rack on the rear.
The suspended Q45 looks like it might be more comfortable on bad roads, but
the pictures of cantilevered rear racks give me pause...
Mechanically I'm pretty competent, so components are a secondary consideration.

Beano, I've been reading about the Speedplay pedals and thanks for the first-hand recommendation.
2whluge, thanks for the cleat mounting tip.

Thanks and good health, Weogo

 

[LarryOz]

Which one CruzBike frame do you see as sturdy, reliable, can carry a load?
The S40 looks fairly striaghtforward and could take a sturdy rack on the rear.
The suspended Q45 looks like it might be more comfortable on bad roads, but
the pictures of cantilevered rear racks give me pause...

All Cruzbikes are quite sturdy and reliable (of course ultimately the components you pick (and eventually replace) must also be reliable)
Based on your stated goal, I would say the S40 would probably be the best choice. Lots of places to mount racks and bags. The ride is not harsh at all, especially with a seat pad. It is also quite speedy. (Not like the V20, but it still eats up the miles.
As you noted, the Q45 may be slightly more comfortable due to suspension. It is a little heavier and was designed to be folded and packed into a smaller space for traveling. It is also designed to carry multi rack and or bags. The seat is also slightly adjustable which is nice to.
Hope this helps
Larry

 

[chicorider]

Over the course of six years of riding various Cruzbikes, I have had no knee troubles. Getting the right fit is important and can involve some trial and error. Also, many CB riders, including myself, use shorter-than-standard cranks arms, which helps to keep the knees from bending too much before going into the power stroke. The rest is a matter of spinning rather than mashing.

 

[billyk]

Agree with all above about spinning in low gear, no mashing. Totally.

As @LarryOz says, one advantage of the Q in your situation - especially since you're not focused on speed (nor am I) - is its adjustability compared to the other models. I suspect you'll be exploring and tuning the positions which is easy on the Q.

As someone who did the same thing, my suggestion is to write each adjustment down as you try it. There are a lot of them.

 

[bret]

Over the course of six years of riding various Cruzbikes, I have had no knee troubles. Getting the right fit is important and can involve some trial and error. Also, many CB riders, including myself, use shorter-than-standard cranks arms, which helps to keep the knees from bending too much before going into the power stroke. The rest is a matter of spinning rather than mashing.

Most of the other suggestions I read in this thread are worth consideration and experiment as well.

I have a 2021 Q45, and I have the rear and under seat racks. I will not put a heavy or swaying load on the rear rack - it wags the bike. The under seat rack is very good - right place, low, etc. I considered removing the rear rack, but it's still useful for short, light convenience loads and my sleeping bag (bulky, light).

Self image is important to people, as is saving money and trying alternatives, but another option to consider as well is putting a booster motor on the bike.

I don't have knee problems, but I have an ankle that won't handle loads and I have significant back problems. I am not deterred by hills or wind. I am looking into a rain shield now (fairing) so that needn't stop me either.

I get exercise anyway. I can't get it mashing on that ankle, but I can ride longer to make up for that. And I can ride at all, and I can keep riding.

The fit is critical. Now that I'm dialing in the seat recline and length I find the bike almost steers by my legs alone without any investment in trying to learn that.

 

[bladderhead]

I concur with all the above. Get it adjusted right. This will take a lot of pissing about, but is worth it. This is the Cruzbike experience. Spin, no mash. Small chainring, big cog. These 12sp cogs have enormous range. Short cranks, but these are hard to find at the moment. The advantage is that your knees do not bend as much. Spin, not mash. This be the mantra.

 

[Weogo Reed]

Hi Larry and All,

Does suspension help any when getting shoved off the road by a car?
One other consideration for suspension - would it help significantly with
traction on steeper, slippery slopes?

Craig, thanks for the crank length note. My last bike I was pushing 175mm cranks.
I'm 6', but shorter legs and longer back. Size 13 feets.

Billy, good point on tracking changes.

Bret, thanks for the rack notes. With the Q45, would you feel comfortable putting
10# on each side and 5# on the top?
In my research I ran across a CB with a mid-drive on EndlessSphere dot com:
"CruzBike FreeRider / SofRider BBS02 build report"
Point taken on getting the fit right. Good luck with the ankle!

Bladderhead, for crank length, how short is short?

I've been reading lots of posts here on the forums and very much appreciate the experience and
wisdom of those who have been figuring out how to optimize CBs.
Are there FAQs posted anywhere that show information like the maximum width tire for different size rims that the various models can fit, with and without fenders?

I'm looking forward to trying these bikes.

Thanks and good health, Weogo

 

[bret]

With the Q45, would you feel comfortable putting
10# on each side and 5# on the top?

Probably, if it can't sway from its position. But I would also have heavy items on the under seat rack for long distances, and I'd prefer that for any distance.

I think the best place for a boost motor is the rear wheel - traction up hill is excellent, and I don't need it downhill. A mid-drive on a Cruzbike means 4kg+ as far forward as possible on the steering gear. I and others have written threads about the conversion.

My 2021 Q45 came with 650b wheels and a stated limit of 1.75" tires. I am switching to 26" rims to fit 2" tires - 2.13" may be possible, but 2" is adequate to permit low-pressure balloon tires.

 

[LarryOz]

Hi Larry and All,

Does suspension help any when getting shoved off the road by a car?
One other consideration for suspension - would it help significantly with
traction on steeper, slippery slopes?

I don't think it really helps with any of the items you mentioned. It mostly just smooths out rough roads. A nice thick seat pad is all I have ever needed.

 

[bret]

I am switching to 26" rims to fit 2" tires

A detail - the wider tire is not only wider - it is taller. I can't give an exact comparison, but the diameter of my 26" x 2" tire is the same as my stock 650b x 1.65" tire using a tape measure.

 

[CoolBreeze]

If your intention is to haul groceries or commute, don’t overlook the humble T50
When upgraded with a rear hub motor, it is a reliable and sturdy workhorse that is a blast to ride with clearance for big tires and mudguards
It also is very adjustable, I have my seat set at 40 degrees and use 155 mm cranks (I’m 5’10” in height) 26” x 2” tires are confident over any road surface and offer plenty of suspension.
Here’s a pic:

 

[CoolBreeze]

When I want to go fast under my own power (after the street sweepers have gone by, and the weather is pleasant) I ride my S30

 

[bret]

26” x 2” tires are confident over any road surface and offer plenty of suspension.

Wide tires have less rolling resistance, usually more traction, and the suspension effect is significant.
Search on 'wide bicycle tires low friction' or 'bicycle balloon tires' and read about it.

 

[bladderhead]

My cranks are 130mm. Going from 175 to 130 may be a bit extreme. But if you have never had a 'bent before, the bike will seem so weird that you will not notice the weirdness of short cranks.

Suspension does not help traction. Wide tyres do. I had a Silvio which had a Kind air-shock at the front and a bit of rubber at the back and 25mms tyres. Sometimes 23mm. Thieves relieved me of that bike so I replaced it with a S40. This has no suspension so I got 38mms Gravel King. This feels more springy than before. Isaac Newton will tell you that the less bumpy it feels, the less impact there is on the wheels. A bit of rubber is good if it has a space inside full of air.

Is Schwinn the American equivalent of Raleigh?

 

[bret]

Is Schwinn the American equivalent of Raleigh?

Dunno. What is Raleigh the equivalent of wherever you are asking from?

 

[Weogo Reed]

Hi Folks,

Bret, thanks for the rack info. Behind the seat looks like a pretty spacious place.

For some riding, a rear hub motor would be best.
On long, steep grades, going slow and easy - under 10mph, a 250~500w mid-drive
will use less total battery capacity than a 750~1000w hub motor that
needs to be turning fast, going around 15mph, to be close to its efficiency range.

Can you fit fenders with 2" tires?
I did search on 'wide bicycle tires low friction'. Well that's a revelation!!
In the mid '70s I was riding a Jim Brittain(Spokane, WA) custom frame with
26mm Del Mondo silk sewup tires, while friends were riding lighter,
narrower 23s and even 21s. I rarely had flats, they had more, and
that bike rode very nicely.


Larry, thanks for the suspension notes. Hmm, a T50 or S40 and wider tires...


CoolBreeze, Nice looking bikes!
The hydroformed S-series looks pretty sweet.


Bladderhead, I've never seen cranks shorter than 155, except on little kid bikes.
And yes, Schwinn was similar to Raleigh. You can read the Schwinn history on wikipedia.


2Whluge, back in the day we put appropriately sized toe-clips on the pedals,
rode for a few hours, then nailed the cleats on where the pedal marks were on the shoe soles.
What's the advantage of cleats farther back on the shoes?

Thanks and good health, Weogo