My Very First Recumbent is a V20
- Thread starter Frito Bandito
- Start date
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
Yes it is, so I think I got a pretty good deal on what I bought already considering that it is almost impossible to find anything at all. Locally, a new Dura Ace Di2 groupset is over $4000 online or at my LBS. It says free delivery, but for that price it should include free installation, setup and yearly maintenance. Even an Ultegra Di2 is well over $2000 here.
I want to use my Deda Tribar with SRAM blips and my Campagnolo bar-end brake levers but it looks like I am going to have to stick with the brifters until I can find blips and a blip box.
I want to use my Deda Tribar with SRAM blips and my Campagnolo bar-end brake levers but it looks like I am going to have to stick with the brifters until I can find blips and a blip box.
I got most of my Ultegra Di2 stuff second hand. I did get the FD and RD new. It is all 11 speed though and not wireless. It would have been much cheaper that what you are doing, but if you want wireless and 12 speed latest stuff, you gotta pay I guess. Most of my setup is 6770 from around 10 years ago and was very cheap second hand.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
In Japan, the 2nd hand market was great preCovid-19 so I bought plenty of it. Now that supply has dried up buyers who used to only buy new have snapped up everything. If I worked in the industry I'd be pushing them hard to get the assembly line rolling as soon and as smoothly as possible.
With that said, I finished my ride today and while cleaning my bike the delivery man rolled up with this...
Brifters, FD, RD, batteries and a charger. I'll put a blip box and blips on later but for now back to brifters.
With that said, I finished my ride today and while cleaning my bike the delivery man rolled up with this...
Brifters, FD, RD, batteries and a charger. I'll put a blip box and blips on later but for now back to brifters.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
Finally got it on and going to test it out tomorrow.
Shimano 52/34 105 cranks on the front, and Ultegra 12 speed 11/30t cassette with gold KMC chain (120L). Everything is paired but having a little issue with the SRAM app that I hope to sort before the ride. Sounds good on the test rig though.
Shimano 52/34 105 cranks on the front, and Ultegra 12 speed 11/30t cassette with gold KMC chain (120L). Everything is paired but having a little issue with the SRAM app that I hope to sort before the ride. Sounds good on the test rig though.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
I took my V20 out today for a test ride with the new SRAM Force AXS groupset. Shimano makes great stuff. I know. Shimano Di2 is probably a dream groupset, and rightly so. I almost went that route for a few reasons. 1 is that I live in Japan and see the products they put out. 2 is that I know it is a good groupset from what I hear and read. Campagnolo is also a good groupset. I have Chorus on my DF bike and it was nothing but perfect for 20,000km before I bought my V20.
With that said, I bought Shimano 105 because it is almost as good as Ultegra and Dura Ace except for a bit heavier and a little less refined.
Shimano's Di2 and Campagnolo's EPS for all intents and purposes are incredible pieces of kit for bikes. However, I went with Sram because I didn't want wire actuated derailleurs, and I didn't want to deal with sticking the battery in the frame or boom and running all the wires. Mechanical is great because every bike shop can fix it if you don't wrench on your bike yourself. I do, but for some reason, probably my own ignorance and inability to wire my V20 up, I just couldn't get my Shimano R7000 105 to keep shifting well for months at a time. I wanted to connect the parts to the bike during the initial setup, then have it perform flawlessly without measuring and cutting a bunch of wires, stringing it up, hiding the wires under the bar tape, making the exposed wires neat with cable ties or tape and all of that stuff. I'm kind of old school with tech, and always a bit skeptical when new stuff comes out that claims to be better than what was always used.
But I am thoroughly impressed with SRAM AXS. Brains in derailleurs and levers that change gears quickly, accurately and dependably without flair. The tech is dumb enough for even me to get it. Di2 and EPS was the next logical leap from mechanical, but for me it wasn't a big enough leap. Having a motor yank the wire the predetermined distance instead of pushing a lever that turned a ratchet a predetermined distance is pretty cool, but didn't do enough for me to introduce the additional responsibility of having to keep the battery charged. In more simple terms, I didn't want to push a lever that told a robot to yank the same wire instead of me. I wanted a robot to change the gears so we can eliminate the wires altogether. I am sold on SRAM AXS.
With that said, I bought Shimano 105 because it is almost as good as Ultegra and Dura Ace except for a bit heavier and a little less refined.
Shimano's Di2 and Campagnolo's EPS for all intents and purposes are incredible pieces of kit for bikes. However, I went with Sram because I didn't want wire actuated derailleurs, and I didn't want to deal with sticking the battery in the frame or boom and running all the wires. Mechanical is great because every bike shop can fix it if you don't wrench on your bike yourself. I do, but for some reason, probably my own ignorance and inability to wire my V20 up, I just couldn't get my Shimano R7000 105 to keep shifting well for months at a time. I wanted to connect the parts to the bike during the initial setup, then have it perform flawlessly without measuring and cutting a bunch of wires, stringing it up, hiding the wires under the bar tape, making the exposed wires neat with cable ties or tape and all of that stuff. I'm kind of old school with tech, and always a bit skeptical when new stuff comes out that claims to be better than what was always used.
But I am thoroughly impressed with SRAM AXS. Brains in derailleurs and levers that change gears quickly, accurately and dependably without flair. The tech is dumb enough for even me to get it. Di2 and EPS was the next logical leap from mechanical, but for me it wasn't a big enough leap. Having a motor yank the wire the predetermined distance instead of pushing a lever that turned a ratchet a predetermined distance is pretty cool, but didn't do enough for me to introduce the additional responsibility of having to keep the battery charged. In more simple terms, I didn't want to push a lever that told a robot to yank the same wire instead of me. I wanted a robot to change the gears so we can eliminate the wires altogether. I am sold on SRAM AXS.
ChaleJake
Guru
Thanks for the review. I hope it continues to work for you. I have ultegra on my S30 and have great performance, so far. The bike came with ultegra installed. I was running Sram on my Silvio 2.1 but switched to 105s. I haven’t given it much use since the bike lives in a different state. It is my summer bike so it will get using this April etc. I hope I don’t run into the issues you have had with your 105s. The first few hundred miles were fine. I am not a hard rider. I hope many happy miles come your way!
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
Thanks ChaleJake. 105 is nothing to sneeze at. It has a great history and it was inexpensive which is why I bought it. It works, is rugged and probably better than what cyclists in the TdF 10 years ago were using. Ultegra is even better. I've got Claris on my work bike and other than a cable change about 2 years ago it is still going strong. My pride wants to blame the 105s, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was something I was doing wrong, and most likely it was the RD cable length 
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
I am not sure of the other Sram products, but I believe Etap (original) and AXS (new) wireless derailleurs. There is a motor and a battery in each derailleur that receive bluetooth signals from the levers instead of through a wire like Di2. Once you pair the RD and FD with your levers, there is no chance of cross signaling with other SRAM riders nearby. You can buy TT Blip buttons (about $120) that do the same thing as the levers, but those have a small wire that goes through your bars to a small Blip Box (about $300) which sends the Bluetooth signal mounted somewhere near your head tube under the boom. With the AXS app the buttons are programmable. Right side clicks move the derailleur to a smaller cog, and opposite for the left. Clicking both at the same time moves the FD to the other ring. A cool thing about AXS is that you can program the RD to move 1 or 2 cogs automatically up or down the cassette each time the FD moves so your cadence stays close to the sweet spot instead of making huge rpm jumps in the middle of a hill. The battery life on the rear derailleur is reported at about 60 hours, but in a pinch can be swapped with the front derailleur to get you home in case you forget. Apparently SRAM and Shimano specs are the same so you can make a "Mullet" as long as both have the same number of speeds.
Ah, almost forgot. It is possible to use the levers or Blip box to micro-adjust the RD left or right 0.25mm per click for each gear if you notice that there is a noise coming from the chain. Yesterday, I noticed either 5th or 6th gear had a bit of chain noise while pedaling. So, while coasting at 30kph or so, I held down the small button on the inside of the right lever, and pushed the lever 3 times to microadjust the rear derailleur. I began pedaling again and noticed that the noise got worse because I microadjusted it the wrong way (couldn't truly eyeball it while on the bike). So, I coasted again, and microadjusted it 6 clicks with the left lever (3 to get it back to the original position, and another 3 to hopefully get it aligned right) and pedaled again. Perfect. I even did it with very thick Winter gloves.
Ah, almost forgot. It is possible to use the levers or Blip box to micro-adjust the RD left or right 0.25mm per click for each gear if you notice that there is a noise coming from the chain. Yesterday, I noticed either 5th or 6th gear had a bit of chain noise while pedaling. So, while coasting at 30kph or so, I held down the small button on the inside of the right lever, and pushed the lever 3 times to microadjust the rear derailleur. I began pedaling again and noticed that the noise got worse because I microadjusted it the wrong way (couldn't truly eyeball it while on the bike). So, I coasted again, and microadjusted it 6 clicks with the left lever (3 to get it back to the original position, and another 3 to hopefully get it aligned right) and pedaled again. Perfect. I even did it with very thick Winter gloves.
So once setup it seems to work the same as Di2... the main difference being the simpler setup due to no wires? I am using mostly the earlier Di2 setup from about 10 years ago (6770 but upgraded to 11 speed). It mostly works the same as you describe, but it did take a bit of effort for me to make a custom harness to suit my bike. But I am an Electrical Engineer, so that is kind of my thing!
To be honest... I kind of setup all my Di2 settings the first time I powered it up, and have not touched it since. I just use it. I'm not really into advanced sequential features. I just use the old school manual shift mode that I know and love. I just like Di2 for the shift ease and quality and the low maintenence of adjustment for cable stretch/failure etc. I do a lot of riding in traffic, and like the capability to go from the small end of cassette to big end when stopping for lights by just holding a button down as I am braking for a stop.
To be honest... I kind of setup all my Di2 settings the first time I powered it up, and have not touched it since. I just use it. I'm not really into advanced sequential features. I just use the old school manual shift mode that I know and love. I just like Di2 for the shift ease and quality and the low maintenence of adjustment for cable stretch/failure etc. I do a lot of riding in traffic, and like the capability to go from the small end of cassette to big end when stopping for lights by just holding a button down as I am braking for a stop.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
Yeah, they are both very similar in overall function. I am envious that you got it set up quickly and easily. I could get the mechanical system installed easily enough, but the wiring on the RD always gave me problems. I got lucky on my DF bike to get it set up quickly and have it work perfectly for 2 years but not on my V20. I like the simplicity and the idea of ease of repair when riding if you carry a spare cable. When it worked it was great. It just had me in knots too many times. So, I solved the problem permanently by going wireless
It took me a few hours to make up my harness from bits of Di2 wires I had around... drilling a few access holes in the boom etc. Everything else was straight forward. I did have an issue with the RD hanger on the V20 that the angle was wrong in stock position so I had to tighten the RD in a position to preload the RD spring more to get enough chain tension. But the actual shifting and adjustment of the RD and FD was quick and easy. Once you get it working right, it is set and forget which is nice.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
The fastish part of a 100km ride.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
Had to recharge the RD battery for the last ride, so it lasted about 800km on 1 charge, and I probably could have gotten it to 900 since I recharged it as soon as the red light appeared, which means about 5 hours left of riding. I will keep this short and only say that it has performed flawlessly with perfect shifts every time. 1 think I like about it is that when you click both handles at the same time the FD changes to the opposite ring, and the RD jumps two rings the opposite way to help you keep your cadence somewhat similar. It works great when switching to the small ring on front at the bottom of a hill so you don't see a huge jump in rpms which will lose some of your momentum, but at the top of the hill when jumping to the big ring, a two jump on the rear isn't really enough to make you not feel like you are bogging down. In other words, it feels like switching from 100rpms to something like 60 rpms when you switch it to the big rings. So, at the top of the hill I will click both to get the FD to jump to the big ring, but then give the left a double click so the RD makes a 4 ring jump.
Over the past month I have been jacking around with the head rest, the boom length and reach to the BB, and I think after today's adjustments I should be ok. My right trap muscle, and sometimes left have been giving me some issues, and those were probably caused by my elevated head position but my neck being stretched because my chin was being forced onto my chest. Additionally, on 1 ride where my BB was closer to the bars, I felt a bit of pain in my quads right near my knees. I let the BB out a little but that was too much so my left hamstring was hyperextending in the bottom end of the pedal stroke and causing a bit of pain.
If I am lucky with the weather I will take it out tomorrow to see how it feels, but since it is the weekend I won't be able to ride like a mad man
Over the past month I have been jacking around with the head rest, the boom length and reach to the BB, and I think after today's adjustments I should be ok. My right trap muscle, and sometimes left have been giving me some issues, and those were probably caused by my elevated head position but my neck being stretched because my chin was being forced onto my chest. Additionally, on 1 ride where my BB was closer to the bars, I felt a bit of pain in my quads right near my knees. I let the BB out a little but that was too much so my left hamstring was hyperextending in the bottom end of the pedal stroke and causing a bit of pain.
If I am lucky with the weather I will take it out tomorrow to see how it feels, but since it is the weekend I won't be able to ride like a mad man
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
The temps are finally starting to creep up, so today I went out with the Deuter Road One bag (worn backwards) filled with a 2.5L (85 fl.oz) Osprey hydration bladder on my chest and a bite down tube. I wouldn't be surprised if I could get a 3L bag in it instead. When I sat up it would dig into my neck just a tad, so I took a box cutter from the inside, made a slit in the nylon material near the seam and cut about 2" of the hard black padding off so it won't dig into my neck in the future. I can still carry the 900ml bottle behind the head, but I really love not having to pull out and replace the bottle. Just being able to turn my head 1/8th of a turn to reach the bitedown tube for a drink is AWESOME! Old pics, but you can get the idea.
Nice work!! How much water do you want to carry? I carry 1.5L and find that is enough for my normal 2-3 hour rides I like to do at pace without stopping, and I can fill at a stop on the really long rides. 3L would be enough for me to 5-6 hours, but I am unlikely to go that far without a stop where I could refill anyway.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
Thanks Adrian. I usually carry about 2L of a local sports drink called Pocari Sweat, but it was 2.5 for yesterdays ride. I will dilute it more in the future as it left my mouth too dry. I didn't need 2.5L in hindsight for the 100km I did. I carried it because in the morning I hoped to simply see how long I could hold 200w, which I expected between 2-3 hours, but once I got to the end of the river I saw that my pace was 41.5kph (196w) for 25km. I thought that I might be able to hold on to at least a 40kph average for my 50km PR going against the wind so I started focusing on finishing the 50km with at least a 40kph average. I just wasn't able to stop the kph average from dropping so quickly on the way back. Since most of my rides over the past couple of months have been higher paced but under 100km I am not surprised that I beat my 38kph average. I simply didn't have the legs to keep 200w going for as long as I hoped, so I took a break and then did the same course again more slowly. I was a bit baffled because I have a few 4 hour rides in which my 4iiii PM says I averaged over 200w last Fall. If that is accurate then I should be able to get back to that level with some focused training on longer rides. When I did those rides I was more focused on how I wasn't going fast enough so I just kept pushing harder and harder and not really paying attention to the PM.
Haven't seen many of your rides on Strava for a while. Everything ok?
Haven't seen many of your rides on Strava for a while. Everything ok?
Sounds good with the power. If find most of my rides on the V20 are around 180-190W average power. I once went to an outdoor velodrom and did an hour of 230W average... that was good for 45kph average. I probably could have gone longer, but I was happy to stop! Those numbers are well lower than I can do on my DF. Typically on DF I was regularly doing around 210-220W average and could do up to around 260W average for an hour or so (and on my hilly area that is normalised power close to 300W). I doubt I could do those number ever in a bent position.
I have been taking a break from cycling the last couple of months. I tweaked my back in December, and have been having trouble a sore piriformis muscle when I was riding. It is still a little sore now even after a couple months break, but I will proabbly start cycling again shortly and hope it does not get worse again. I miss cycling, but I the kind of person who is all or nothing with it. If I am cycling I am trying to improve and go faster, and it was nice to remove the pressure from myself and have a break for a couple months. I wish I was better at just cycling at easy pace.... but I have tried and I always put the speed up!
I have been taking a break from cycling the last couple of months. I tweaked my back in December, and have been having trouble a sore piriformis muscle when I was riding. It is still a little sore now even after a couple months break, but I will proabbly start cycling again shortly and hope it does not get worse again. I miss cycling, but I the kind of person who is all or nothing with it. If I am cycling I am trying to improve and go faster, and it was nice to remove the pressure from myself and have a break for a couple months. I wish I was better at just cycling at easy pace.... but I have tried and I always put the speed up!
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
Sorry to hear you had some back issues. I've got a bit of neck and trap issues that I'm trying to get sorted. Luckily that doesn't affect my ability to pedal, it just hurts. Rehab it properly so you can get back on the bike pain free. I hear ya. I am the same. If I am going to do it, then it will be an honest effort. The chase for power has been fun, and got me up to a 257w FTP but it is way lower now and I'm trying to stay focused on endurance, but failing at that and ramp it up at the slightest opportunity. Most of my V20 rides are at about the same power as yours, but my CdA is worse so I need to keep it at 200w or more to be able to hopefully keep up. I've been checking the local markets for a good deal on a tubeless ready 80mm front wheel with an aluminum brake track, but nothing that tickled my fancy has come up yet. I really have to get my CdA sorted though. 0.192 for my last ride was better than usual, but I really need to get it down to at least 0.180.
