My Very First Recumbent is a V20

[vosadrian]

I am amazed at the speed of a V20 at low power when optimised. I can toddle along at 40kph on about 180W which is fairly easy to do for hours. But the power really ramps up once you start going up to 45kph. I think I am at around 0.18 level

I'll be back soon. I am enjoying the time off though... and the weather in Sydney has not been great lately.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Spring is rolling around the corner so we should have good weather soon too. Enjoy it while you are off. It'll be good to see you posting some new PRs once you get your legs back.

My ride today had a low average speed because my legs weren't recovered from Monday and back above 0.2 CdA (no hydration bag was the only thing I changed from Monday). I am beat though.
With the 50mm front and disc rear and hydration back I should be close to 0.18. Not sure when I will get those back on but definitely before Summer.

 

[vosadrian]

I am going into Autumn in Australia. But should be good riding weather. Sydney has been hot, humid and wet lately. Not the best conditions for riding. When the rain ends, I will probably start riding again. I might mix it up a bit more between DF and V20. I miss the hills loops I do that I have been afraid to do on the V20. I still never feel as confident in traffic on the V20 so tend to stick to roads with a shoulder, but I need to ride some busier roads without a shoulder to get to the hills from my place. My back won;t let me do long rides on the DF, but I will try and get some hills in once a week.

 

[Opik]

I am amazed at the speed of a V20 at low power when optimised. I can toddle along at 40kph on about 180W which is fairly easy to do for hours. But the power really ramps up once you start going up to 45kph. I think I am at around 0.18 level

I'll be back soon. I am enjoying the time off though... and the weather in Sydney has not been great lately.

has not been great is an euphism, its flooding everywhere and roads are closed, its not just the rain that stops you from riding. hope you guys are safe there

 

[vosadrian]

You are right.... Extreme rain on the east coast of Australia the last two weeks. Luckily it does not effect me much where I live, but many are flooded in. But far from good cycling weather!

 

[Don1]

Yep, the weather in northern NSW, hasn't been 'ideal' is an understatement. Most roads have been ripped apart, lost their shoulders and covered in silt, others don't exist at all. It'll be awhile before this little roadie will doing his usual loops.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Sorry to hear about that guys, and hope everything gets back to normal as soon as possible. I might be out for a few days also due to a stye. I think this is my 4th or 5th one and this is the worst. I don't really want to get a full face mask but watching doctors cut my eyelids with scalpels is horrifying and to be frank getting quite old.
Luge Helmet, paragliding helmet or...?

 

[Don1]

Ouch.

 

[ChaleJake]

So sorry. A stye is painful. Maybe something like ski goggles might work?

 

[Frito Bandito]

I thought of that ChaleJake, but since they sit so far away from my face and the bottom of most of them has plastic around the edges it really blocks my view with my head reclined as far back as I have it now. If I adjust the headrest so my head is a bit more vertical then they could work, which is how I had it earlier, but that comes at an aero penalty. I don7t want to look like a dork with a full face helmet but this is getting old really fast.
My sister in the US just ordered a Limar Speed King for $60 that should be more aero than my Limar 007, but the only real difference is that it covers the ears better, not the eyes unless I can come up with another solution that protects them better.

 

[Don1]

I'm so tempted to to accept the dorkyness since we're on recumbents.... To do full face helmet as discussed on Strava, but with intake/exhaust ports to limit fog, mist etc during winter, in summer you the draft.... Well see

 

[Frito Bandito]

I am beyond caring about looking like a dork now. If someone doesn't like my helmet then let me dig a sharp scalpel around in their eyes several times until they change their mind
I went to 2 ski shops in Tokyo hoping to find something that would work. I didn't expect either to have a luge helmet but if they did or could have custom ordered 1 then I would have gotten one. I did get another lense similar to my current orangish one though. This new one wraps around more than the previous, and almost closes the area around my ears on my old helmet. But it definitely will close that gap better on the helmet my sister just bought for me.

 

[M.J]

I'm looking at the Speed King now and it looks great, especially since it's on clearance everywhere. It doesn't look like it comes with a visor, though. Am I missing something or is it intended to be worn with glasses?

 

[Frito Bandito]

I'm looking at the Speed King now and it looks great, especially since it's on clearance everywhere. It doesn't look like it comes with a visor, though. Am I missing something or is it intended to be worn with glasses?

I do wear sunglasses under the visor on mine.
The 007 and Speed King are older models, and used to come with a visor but most that I have seen for sale online do not. You might be able to find visors online, but so far I have only seen the helmet being sold without it. I have used the Giro Air Attack visor on my Limar 007 which is essentially a Speed King without the ear covers, and it works okay, but I have also found a few other visors that will do in a pinch. If I want an exact fit and none of the current visors I have will be an exact fit on the Speed King even after some trimming, then I will go to a motorcycle shop and buy a spare lense that is large enough to trim for a perfect fit. Like my current helmet, I will drill small holes in the Speed King to glue small cylindrical magnets inside with clear Gorilla Glue, then use the same glue for small button magnets on the visor. I can't recall exactly how strong the magnets (how many kg they are rated for) I now have on both the helmet and lense are, but I can find out. Let me know if you go that route and I will find out so you don't damage the helmet like I did with my Limar 007. Too strong will rip the magnet out of the foam.

 

[John Formsma]

Has anyone tried this pedaling technique to increase average speed? Let me explain...

One way of increasing speed is by increasing power. So, instead of pedaling at a constant 200W for four hours, we can get stronger so we can pedal at 210W for four hours. However, it's hard to build up that level of endurance. And it takes more time to recover from an effort like that.

Instead of trying to ride at the same power for hours, pick a more doable "cruising pace," say... ~20% below the maximum sustainable power you can maintain for 3-4 hours. For me, this is about 170-180W (when I'm in shape anyway). This would be whatever pace you can comfortably maintain, say, a 20+ mph average speed over flat terrain.

As you're riding at that "cruising pace," ramp up the effort slightly for 10-15 seconds to increase the speed to 22-23 mph. Back off the effort to the "cruising pace." Then, whenever you see that you're starting to slow down (maybe in 45-60 seconds), do another 10-15 sec effort to bring the speed back up. In terms of power, cruise at ~180W, the 10-15 sec ramps would be 230-250W.

Compared to a DF bike, the V20 keeps its speed so much longer. This pedaling technique might prove to be faster overall, but without as much load on the legs over time. Thoughts?

(I wish my hub-based power meter was working so I could have some more accurate numbers. But it hit a rock last fall, bent the rim, and I haven't taken the time to build it around a new rim. Soon.... Hopefully the above power numbers are close enough--I'm going from memory of last year when I started to experiment with this.)

 

[Frito Bandito]

Yep, that is an excellent training technique that I believe works very well John. I am sure that other riders use it and trainer's prescribe it. I think it would be easier for me to keep track of the time if I was on a trainer, but outdoors I get distracted. I'm not quite so diligent with keeping accurate time, but I have done something similar when riding. Before getting a power meter I would go at cruising speed, let's say 30kph, for 5 minutes and then ramp it up to 35kph for 1 minute. If it was too easy I'd either change to 37kph for the 1 minute hard effort, or I would drop the cruising speed time to 4 minutes or less with 1 minute of hard effort. Or increase the cruising speed to 31kph. When all of that time keeping got too tedious I would do what I call "Moving finish lines." Since I know my usual path so well this works great. I'd spot someone ahead of me and then try to catch them by a certain point ahead of them and take off. If during the chase I could tell that I was either going to catch them easily by that point (Difficult to tell how fast they are going from so far away) or that I wasn't going to catch them I would move the "finish line" closer or further away and keep up the effort. Sometimes I'd have to move the "finish line" several times if they were going much slower or faster than I guessed. Afterwards I'd slow down to cruising speed until I could remember my name and then repeat. With casual riders it was always me who chose the finish line since they were out for a leisure ride. If that pissed off other riders then the other thing I do is worse for some of them.

When cruising along at whatever pace, occasionally a rider that I didn't see in my mirror either appears in my draft (came down a ramp at about the same time I am passing through) or is gaining on me. I'll increase my speed to stay in front of him at least far enough so he can't draft. It's not about my ego, I'm just not comfortable enough with another rider being so close who might cause an accident because he isn't paying as much attention as I think he should. A couple of times with a fast guy on a triathlon or TT bike in full tuck was drafting off me almost caused an accident because he couldn't access his brakes quickly enough or simply didn't know which side I was going to pass a pedestrian or other rider on causing him to swerve massively. In Japan, I would be at least partially responsible legally for causing him to crash. Anyway, I just try to stay in front until I reach my cut off point.

 

[John Formsma]

I think you are talking about something different. The goal is to ride faster with less overall effort. Repeated hard -minute efforts add up very quickly, and that kind of effort is not sustainable. (Of course, it depends on how hard those one minute intervals are.)

What I am talking about is getting to a higher speed and maintaining that higher speed. But using less overall effort than if we pedal at the exact same input over the entire ride.

First, establish your normal speed with the more comfortable "cruising pace." Then, give a 10-second push to get to a new and slightly higher speed. Once you're at the new higher speed, go back to the "cruising pace" and that pace will maintain the new higher speed. Because the V20 holds its speed so well, something like a 10-second push tends to keep it at that new higher speed. At least, that's the hypothesis. It definitely works as far as maintaining the new higher speed. However, I haven't done it over a long ride to see if repeated 10-second efforts are sustainable over a long ride.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I think you are talking about something different. The goal is to ride faster with less overall effort. Repeated hard -minute efforts add up very quickly, and that kind of effort is not sustainable. (Of course, it depends on how hard those one minute intervals are.)

What I am talking about is getting to a higher speed and maintaining that higher speed. But using less overall effort than if we pedal at the exact same input over the entire ride.

First, establish your normal speed with the more comfortable "cruising pace." Then, give a 10-second push to get to a new and slightly higher speed. Once you're at the new higher speed, go back to the "cruising pace" and that pace will maintain the new higher speed. Because the V20 holds its speed so well, something like a 10-second push tends to keep it at that new higher speed. At least, that's the hypothesis. It definitely works as far as maintaining the new higher speed. However, I haven't done it over a long ride to see if repeated 10-second efforts are sustainable over a long ride.

Yes, I think I did. I'm trying to increase the amount of time and amount of power I can sustain. Those small bursts are great closing the gaps to riders in front when in a group, or opening gaps for those behind, as well as the "cruising pace" when alone that you wrote about. Depending on each person's muscle type, some are pure sprinters and some are endurance. Most of us fall somewhere in middle, but if anything I believe mine are on the endurance side even though I venture into the sprinting side far too often. As for how many of those 10 second sprints are sustainable, we can increase the number of 10-second sprints by adding more of them to our routine, or simply increase the power of the ones currently done from say 400w to 500w for each 10-second sprint.

During my ride yesterday I had my power reading at the top of my Bolt screen and was focusing on that mainly for the ride. Occasionally I'd tilt my head lower to see the speed at the bottom of the screen which was either relieving when near or above 38kph, but gave me a kick in the pants to push a bit harder when I noticed it was lower. The wind speed and direction was wrecking my effort though. Occasionally I would look down and see 38kph but also that my power was 150-160w due to the wind. So, I'd have to ramp it up because I was trying to hold a higher power, not KOM chasing with a specific speed in mind. I can't complain though. The last 27 minutes basically limping at about 130-140w on only 2 cups of coffee, a cinnamon bun for breakfast and 1L of hydration is a starting point I can build on.

 

[Frito Bandito]

My rear 80mm Bullet (Monokote disc) tubeless 25mm tire needed replacing after a hard braking slide ripped off a patch of rubber. Having a used but in good condition 23mm Schwalbe One tire taking up space I decided to put it on with a sealant filled tube. The 23mm tire fits the narrow rim really well even though I'd rather have a 25mm or even a 28mm run at a lower pressure. On my usual bike path there is really only 1 area that a pinch flat is possible so I have to keep the air pressure pretty high and be careful to shift my weight properly when going over that bump. It's definitely not going to be as comfortable as the previous tire but here's to not getting a pinch flat on it.

 

[Mathew Fy]

https://smwbikeclub.wildapricot.org/The-Century-Route

Yes, I think I did. I'm trying to increase the amount of time and amount of power I can sustain. Those small bursts are great closing the gaps to riders in front when in a group, or opening gaps for those behind, as well as the "cruising pace" when alone that you wrote about. Depending on each person's muscle type, some are pure sprinters and some are endurance. Most of us fall somewhere in middle, but if anything I believe mine are on the endurance side even though I venture into the sprinting side far too often. As for how many of those 10 second sprints are sustainable, we can increase the number of 10-second sprints by adding more of them to our routine, or simply increase the power of the ones currently done from say 400w to 500w for each 10-second sprint.

During my ride yesterday I had my power reading at the top of my Bolt screen and was focusing on that mainly for the ride. Occasionally I'd tilt my head lower to see the speed at the bottom of the screen which was either relieving when near or above 38kph, but gave me a kick in the pants to push a bit harder when I noticed it was lower. The wind speed and direction was wrecking my effort though. Occasionally I would look down and see 38kph but also that my power was 150-160w due to the wind. So, I'd have to ramp it up because I was trying to hold a higher power, not KOM chasing with a specific speed in mind. I can't complain though. The last 27 minutes basically limping at about 130-140w on only 2 cups of coffee, a cinnamon bun for breakfast and 1L of hydration is a starting point I can build on.

I like this. Your efforts keep me motivated. I’m also trying to get better. I read Cliff’s reports where he talks about using a coach and having great results. I’m using an off-the-shelf Trainer Road plan, the “Century” having completed the “Climbing Road Race” a couple times. I’m considering doing the Cherohala Challenge, 112 miles and >10,000 feet climbing. Do it under seven hours to be awarded “Dragon Slayer,” so there’s a goal. Like you, when pushing hard outside I have my Garmin prominently displaying power and heart rate to serve as my benchmark.
The training seems to be paying off. On my recent outside ride I took a KOM riding 258 watts for six minutes. So much more than I could before. (Thanks for the kudos, BTW.)

Next to get my V20 more aerodynamic: taking off an under seat bag, making the wheel covers, & attaching the tail case.