My Very First Recumbent is a V20

[vosadrian]

I would be very surprised if your cranks are too short. They may feel different and you may prefer the feel of longer cranks, but I doubt there would be any performance gain or biometric fit advantage going to longer cranks. Many people have tried shorter cranks and I don't recall anyone ever finding they lost performance or had fitment issues cause by it. Shorter cranks will be more aero (reduce height of knees at top and depth of heels at bottom), and if you lengthen the boom to have the same extended position, your knees and hips will be working at a lower angle which is generally better for you joints (assuming you up the cadence and don't grind for more power)

As for the gearing... I run 52/11 as my highest gear, and there are times I want more... but I ride more hills than you so find myself going down descents that have me going fast. I don;t think I could spin out 52/11 unless I had a huge tail wind on flatter roads. If you are already 53, you are a little better than me. If you went to 54, it would be less than a 2% improvement in speed for the same cadence. So it you were doing 60kph maxed out with the 53, you might get the 61kph with the 54. Not a big difference in my mind. I think you need more to be worthwhile. For instance going to a 10 on the rear from 11 is around 10% which would get you to ~65kph which is a worthwile difference. To get that on the big ring, you would need to go to 58 or so.

But I do think a dual sided pedal PM would be a good thing for you. I would expect more consistent CdA results.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I hear ya Vos. I went from a 52t to a 53t and it was essentially just different numbers painted on the cranks. I couldnt notice any real speed difference even if science could have. I only need that boost on the windiest of days though, not because I am some kind of watt monster lol. I'll have to check around for a 12-speed cassette that has a 10t and fits on a Shimano freehub. SRAM of course makes one, but my Mavic CXR wheels don't have a SRAM driver. I might go with it not really because of the small performance gain but because it is such a good deal, slightly lighter, and if I don't then when my 105 cranks finally give up the ghost I might have to pay an arm and a leg for whatever is available just to get back on the road. Also, as you wrote, I can simply get the dual sided pedal PMs if needed.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

@Frito Bandito I went from 105 to Ultegra chainring on my DF and in addition to being lighter, the shifting also noticeably improved. So I imagine that from 105 to DA will also be a noticeable difference. As for going to 10t at the cassette end, I believe you will have to go micro-spline as the 10t is too small for the standard hub

 

[Frito Bandito]

@Frito Bandito I went from 105 to Ultegra chainring on my DF and in addition to being lighter, the shifting also noticeably improved. So I imagine that from 105 to DA will also be a noticeable difference. As for going to 10t at the cassette end, I believe you will have to go micro-spline as the 10t is too small for the standard hub

Thanks, Flying Dutchman. I just read about Microspline now after searching for cassettes with a 10t ring. I thought I knew plenty about the Campagnolo/Shimano/SRAM incompatibility but apparently there is a lot more to it now with the emergence of 12-speed groupsets. For the time being I will give up hope that a new crankset will be of any real benefit. I wasn't even really thinking of the improved shifting quality but since you mentioned it I guess that will have to substitute as another excuse to buy it instead of the paltry 1kph gain in speed by switching hahaha.
I just checked Chris King hubs with a SRAM driver because that was another upgrade I was considering, but there are only a 28 hole and 32 hole option when my CXR wheels have 20 spoke holes. I know next to nothing about wheel building so I have no idea if those are somehow workable.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I bit the bullet and ordered the 54/40t Dura Ace crankset. A few things contributed to the decision. First is the price. Hard to beat $320 for a set of new Dura Ace cranks. Second, while it is only a small step up in speed, yesterday's downwind ride had me spinning out far too often. Numerous times I kept mashing on the shifter button hoping for a taller gear so my 56-year old butt didn't need to get +120rpms.


I am not really a weight weenie, but them being lighter than my 105 cranks is definitely something I will take. I am sure the shifting is more smooth also, but since I rarely see mountains that is another benefit that hardly counts, but I'll take.

Now for the final reason. Strava KOMs. I got a few yesterday since it was so windy, and 1 of them I took belonged to JP which he got while riding as a trio with 2 other triathletes. Later, JP then made a snarky remark when I told him that most 'bent riders petitioned Strava to get our own category but were shot down. I was happy to get at least 1 of his, but since his account is private and he didn't accept my "request to follow" I wasn't really aware (or really cared) that JP has been making very good use of the "off season" in building his fitness. JP rode the same route a little bit later than me yesterday, under very good wind conditions as well, and swept almost every KOM along the route. I was able to check his ride and found it funny that he hid his Power Meter data. He was on his Shiv and I am sure he isn't mechanical doping, but I can guestimate that it took him at least 300 watts for the 43 minute ride at an average speed of 49.3kph (30.6mph) versus my 212 watts at 46.6kph (28.9mph) around New Year's Day.
Now, it is really time to catch another Winter windy day on a weekday, tidy up my CdA, pump up my tires, shed some excess weight, oil my chain and put out enough power to overcome that 2.7kph deficit.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Mavic's Exalith braking system on rim brakes is something else. Basically it is a textured surface on the rim brake tracks that I read from some who have compared both that is almost on par with disc brakes. Exalith brake pads are harder than your typical brake pads from Shimano and Campagnolo, especially the older pads, but I read somewhere that newer Shimano and Campagnolo brakes pads will work. However, you might have to replace them a bit sooner than you would on smooth brake tracks because they might get eaten up more quickly. Yesterday I removed the rear Mavic wheel and put on my Campagnolo Bullet 50 with smooth brake tracks and when I first tried the rear brake out it felt like almost nothing happened. I kept that wheel on as it was just a long and slow ride, but I know to not expect much out of the smooth brake tracks on faster rides. If you haven't made the jump to disc brakes yet and need new wheels, you might want to either check out Mavic's wheels that have the Exalith braking surface, or for other manufacturers that have something similar. I have been using my CXR 60C wheels for about 6 months now and the brake tracks still look new, and my Exalith brake pads look like they still have at least another 6 months in them.

 

[vosadrian]

I have roval carbon wheels on my upright bike and run swisstop black prince. I think I have about 25000kms out of a set of pads on that and still going. I mainly ride that bike on technical hills, so heaps of braking. I can;t believe how long the pads last. Breaking performance is awesome also... not great in teh wet, but better than other carbon wheels I have.

 

[Frito Bandito]

25K km is a lot. Looks like they finally got the CF brake tracks able to handle plenty of heat without losing braking ability. I saw some Roval wheels last week during a ride and they looked really nice, and fast. Wish I could remember the model.

Got the new 170mm DA 54/40t crankset on as well as new DA BB cups. No PM now, so lets see how they all work.

 

[vosadrian]

I have to admit I am not seeing a compelling reason to go disk brakes. My brother recently got a disk brake bike and has gone through several pad sets already. I rode the bike in the dry for a 100km loop and the brakes did not feel that different to my Roval setup. I am sure it would be different in the wet. A good caliper brake setup seems to work great in the dry and have next to no maintenence. I avoid riding in the rain anyway!

 

[cpml123]

I have to admit I am not seeing a compelling reason to go disk brakes. My brother recently got a disk brake bike and has gone through several pad sets already. I rode the bike in the dry for a 100km loop and the brakes did not feel that different to my Roval setup. I am sure it would be different in the wet. A good caliper brake setup seems to work great in the dry and have next to no maintenence. I avoid riding in the rain anyway!

Also some disc brakes are finicky to adjust so that disc rotor won't rub the pads ever slightly. Disc rub is so annoying.

 

[vosadrian]

I hear that. I know I am just old school and for some riders the braking in the wet is a priority, but to me it seems like a solution waiting for a problem.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I am not a fan of finicky either. Rim brake calipers are incredibly easy to adjust, which would be acceptable in my book even IF you had to adjust them every week or month. With crashes it only takes one to really screw up your day, but I haven't found myself in a situation where that marginally small extra bit of stopping power saved by butt.

 

[vosadrian]

I was surprized my bothers disk brake setup had very similar braking feel to my rim brakes. I expected I was going to hit the brakes and go over the front, but it felt much the same. That was Ultegra setup. I can easily lockup my rim brakes and the feel is similar. I don't think I could stop and quicker with those disk brakes in the dry. Of course in the wet a different story!

On my V20 I have the Yoeleo rim brake wheels (Same pads Swisstop pads). Braking is much worse than the Rovals. I have to apply a lot more lever pressure to stop quickly. I tend to ride that more cautiously around things that could cause me to have to stop quickly. I think I would appreciate better braking on that.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Yeah, the marketing departments are pretty good at making what they are selling seem superior, and a few of the... can I say "snobs" (not in a bad way) are excellent at reinforcing it. I am not that refined though. I kind of wish I were, but then again I just like the idea of "squeeze it until I stop without making a bald spot on the tire or having the bike wash out", and I am certain I can squeeze any of them hard enough to do both in a panic. The safest thing for me to do is to try to not ride in a way that puts me in a panic. Again though, I am sold on the Exalith braking surface. I am not sure if I will ride these wheels enough to rub it off but I am going to keep my eye out for something similar to have a spare set just in case. If I could find them in 80-90mm then I would be set.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Okay, got the first ride with the new 170mm, 54/40t DA cranks in today.

54/40t Dura Ace cranks test ride - Andrew 's 102.3 km bike ride

No power meter. It might be the placebo effect, but the 170mm cranks feel better than the shorter 165mm cranks I had on for the last two years. It feels like I have a little bit more time in each pedal stroke to put out power. So far no knee pain from switching.

www.strava.com

Wish I could gush about the cranks, but all I can really say is that they are lighter, look better, and most important of all the 170mm crank arms did not cause any knee pain so far. It's only .5mm and probably the placebo effect, but I did feel as though I could stretch out my legs a bit more with each pedal stroke. On a few occasions the 165mm crank arms made my feet feel like they were spinning in very tiny circles. I think my legs are proportionally longer, and I do remember that while running my stride was longer than usual. I took it a but easy today just in case a knee problem crept up, but they will stay on.

 

[Frito Bandito]

No power meter on my new cranks means no CdA from MyWindSock on my rides and Strava estimates my power as being significantly higher than what my 4iiii PM was showing. Without that PM data it lists every ride as being 0.181 now. There are a few small things I could do to clean it up a little, but I am not going to tinker with any major changes.

On another note, I was finally able to get a 700x25mm Continental GP5000 TL on my CXR60C rear wheel, and even though TL is not supposed to require sealant, the tire was leaking around the beads, so I put sealant in anyway because it probably gives a little more protection than without it. It broke a heavy duty tire lever, but soon I will put another one on the front. At 80psi it felt so much better than the tubed GP5000 tires. It really took a lot of the bite off of the several sharp bumps on my ride, and of course it reduced the road buzz.

 

[vosadrian]

I tried running the TLs without sealant. It would go down slowly and I would need to pump up the tyres mid ride to get home after about half an hour. I've always run sealant since then.

 

[Frito Bandito]

While the current 14-16L seat bag I have on my V20 is better than nothing I decided to put on a new one.
Now I am stuck in the hospital for a few days but I bought a fiberglass seat fairing from a Yamaha TZR50 and started working on it. I still have a bit of work to do on it but it is coming along.

 

[Jeffers]

I never thought of using a motorcycle fairing tail section.
That's brilliant!
Hope everything goes fine at the hospital.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Thanks Jeffers. I’m sure it will Japanese doctors are very cautious. I was out of the U.S. hospital by lunchtime after a hernia surgery, but in Japan I had to stay in for three days. The main difference was that in Japan it cost me $2K out of pocket.

Anyway, as for the seat fairing, it’s my first go, but i think it’ll be alright. Some carbon fiber wrap after I sort the access hatch, put a bottom on it, and then cut the arms properly so I can squeeze them together under the seat for better aero. Just hope they don’t crack.