Ol'Yellow get a New Facelift after 11.6K Miles

super slim

Zen MBB Master

Are your fork mounting points vertical, as I had problems with that on my Quest V1.0 rear, when I fitted TRP Spyre actuators (no self aligning washers) from BB7s (with self aligning washers), and the Spyres were mushy and low power (only on the rear due to the vertical alignment of the fork mount face for the brake adapter). after filing vertical, brakes were great.

These most probably you have seen before.
http://www.dreamcyclery.com/blog/2015/3/10/trp-hyrd-disc-brake-fluid-level-adjustment

One person stated that you had to apply the brakes at least 40 times, so the piston fully retracts and some mineral oil can drop down in front of the piston, for the hydraulic take up of the slack between the pads and the disk to occur.

You might need to add mineral oil to the reservoir, after removing the pads, to protect them from oil contamination, reinstall the pads, then bleed the brakes.

Others who have TRP hy/rd might want to correct me!

Have you been able to bed the brakes in yet?
http://www.bikeradar.com/au/gear/article/how-to-bed-in-disc-brake-pads-31337/
 

Bill K

Guru
Very Nice!
I especially like the attention to detail: all the way down to matching red spoke nipples.
Because of this, my V20 is now, officially, camera shy and will not let me take pictures of it:)
 

Bill K

Guru
Cassette: SeqLite S-11 Lightest 11 Speed 11-42 and Shimano XT 11-42. This is were I need to do some testing and experimenting. These two cassettes are different widths. I'm told the Shimano is the same width as a 10 speed cassette (I have not verified this yet) and the SeqLite is the same width as the new 11 speed road cassettes. WHY OH WHY do they do this?? Neither one of these cassettes would mount on the Torch hub without the 10 speed spacer installed first.

Last week I upgraded my V20 to some new Shimano DI2 XT components and installed their CS-M8000 XT 11-42 cassette.
I have the same issue as you, but on a White Industries XMR 11-speed hub.
The Shimano installation instructions shows two versions of this cassette: one with a lock ring spacer, and one without a lock ring spacer .
My cassette arrived without the lock ring spacer and cannot be tightened unless I leave the 10-speed spacer on the hub (and the 10-speed spacer is too wide and causes the the gears to be mis-aligned).
Maybe you also need this spacer: Shimano part number: Y10Z04000.
 

Rick Youngblood

CarbonCraft Master
Last week I upgraded my V20 to some new Shimano DI2 XT components and installed their CS-M8000 XT 11-42 cassette.
I have the same issue as you, but on a White Industries XMR 11-speed hub.
The Shimano installation instructions shows two versions of this cassette: one with a lock ring spacer, and one without a lock ring spacer .
My cassette arrived without the lock ring spacer and cannot be tightened unless I leave the 10-speed spacer on the hub (and the 10-speed spacer is too wide and causes the the gears to be mis-aligned).
Maybe you also need this spacer: Shimano part number: Y10Z04000.
Yep, I believe you are correct, and that makes a lot of sense. Surprised the XT cassette does not include the spacer.

I will look into ordering the spacer and do further testing. Currently, with the small bit of mill work I did the inside driveside fork, adding the 10 1.85 mm free body space, I was able to make it work quite well. Shifting is pretty darn good, and actually better than with the old 10 speed setup.

But what I really want is to get the SeqLite cassette to work.
 

trapdoor2

Zen MBB Master
One person stated that you had to apply the brakes at least 40 times, so the piston fully retracts and some mineral oil can drop down in front of the piston, for the hydraulic take up of the slack between the pads and the disk to occur.

You might need to add mineral oil to the reservoir, after removing the pads, to protect them from oil contamination, reinstall the pads, then bleed the brakes.

Others who have TRP hy/rd might want to correct me!

Have you been able to bed the brakes in yet?
http://www.bikeradar.com/au/gear/article/how-to-bed-in-disc-brake-pads-31337/

My TRP HY/RD brakes were surprisingly poor for the first few rides. I have two other bikes which I fitted with Avid mechanical and Hyd brakes, neither of which required a bedding period. Not surprisingly, my first downhill stop was more of a 'slowing'...:eek: The rear disc especially was almost non-existent.

After a few rides, the brakes bedded in and are now quite nice and very well balanced. Still, I cannot lock up the rear tire with the 140mm rear disc. I believe I could lock up the front (160mm), but am not going to intentionally test that!

Installing the HY/RD per the video gets me close...but I don't like a lot of brake-lever movement so I had to further adjust them to suit. I have not felt that they required any bleeding/additional fluid. From what I have seen of the 'topping up' process, it might be best to remove the brake completely and submerge it in mineral oil, screwing on the cover whilst submerged. Clean off the exterior and remount, etc. Wouldn't hurt to vacuum-degas the fluid first either. Mineral oil is pretty cheap.

I love the graphics on the OPs bike! Shiny bits too...:D
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
My TRP HY/RD brakes were surprisingly poor for the first few rides. I have two other bikes which I fitted with Avid mechanical and Hyd brakes, neither of which required a bedding period. Not surprisingly, my first downhill stop was more of a 'slowing'...:eek: The rear disc especially was almost non-existent.

After a few rides, the brakes bedded in and are now quite nice and very well balanced. Still, I cannot lock up the rear tire with the 140mm rear disc. I believe I could lock up the front (160mm), but am not going to intentionally test that!

Installing the HY/RD per the video gets me close...but I don't like a lot of brake-lever movement so I had to further adjust them to suit. I have not felt that they required any bleeding/additional fluid. From what I have seen of the 'topping up' process, it might be best to remove the brake completely and submerge it in mineral oil, screwing on the cover whilst submerged. Clean off the exterior and remount, etc. Wouldn't hurt to vacuum-degas the fluid first either. Mineral oil is pretty cheap.

I love the graphics on the OPs bike! Shiny bits too...:D

FWIW, if you follow the instructions you can skip that break in; but sadly the directions aren't obvious.

1) Lock out the brake with the built in locking screw on the bike.
2) Install cables and tension with the cable adjuster at the mid point.
3) release the lock screw
4) Loosen mounting bolts
5) Crack the bleeding screw
6) Squeeze brake; and look for fluid as soon as some bleeds out; tighten the bleeding screw.
7) Squeeze Brake, and tighten mounting screws

Done.... Just make sure when you remove the wheel that you first lock out the break with with the lock screw. If you don't and you squeeze the lever the pads will clamp down; and will self adjust to that position; and you won't be able to get them back.

Oddly the earlier version of the brakes came with complete instructions; the second set I got came with nothing.

Lastly if you don't like a lot of travel in your levers it is a good idea to learn to like it; it's worth it with disc brakes but it is a mental hurdle or at least it was for me.
 

trapdoor2

Zen MBB Master
Brake lever travel: I simply adjusted it to suit me. I had no instructions with mine...and didn't figure out the lock until after the first couple of tries. Would have been a lot easier with your sequence.

I ran out of adjustment. Ended up clamping the cable off with a pair of vice-grips and then moving the brake actuator lever manually to a position I liked, tightening the cable screw after. That worked reasonably well for a first iteration. 2nd iteration, I adjusted the adjuster fully 'in' and then went thru the sequence using the 'lock'. Then, I simply used the cable adjuster to get the feel I wanted. Nth iteration (replaced the stock cables with hot-rod Jagwires): I moved the cable adjuster to the middle and used a mix of techniques to get it where I wanted it. All of this futzing around was for the rear only. The fronts were dead on, first time, every time.

When I think about it, I'll mess with bleeding them, etc. Right now, the bike is 'stable state' and I'm simply riding it.
 

Rick Youngblood

CarbonCraft Master
UPDATE: Firstly we've had a quite wet Fall and Winter so far. Not much riding and testing yet. B U T, very frustrated with the TRP HY/RD brakes...that's the 'G' version for this forum.

Converting the V2.0 to 11 speed was a piece of cake, I'm very happy with it, as shifting working smoothly, and much better than I expected. I thought this would be the more difficult part of my upgrade

H O W E V E R, the TRP HY/RD are problematic for me to even come close to a solution. As mentioned previously in this threat, I've setup mechanical BB7's, and various Shimano hydro brakes for past recumbent's and MTB's in past with out issues. I've read and researched TRP problems, it seems to be a mixed bag. The only thing I haven't done (yet) is re-bleed the brakes. That's coming soon.

The issues are:

1) 140 mm rotor rubs frame stay at the vary end of the radii (not a TRP problem), not the weld, but the round tube itself. Has anyone been able to get a 140mm rotor to work on a V2.0 or disc brakes for that matter? I filed about 1.5 mm away, but don't want to loose too much for obvious reasons. This gives .75mm 1mm of clearance...my opinion not enough to feel warm and fuzzy about. I tried a 2mm spacer, but felt that it was pushing the hub away from the brake mounts making centering pads more difficult.​

2) The caliper (both front and rear) will not center itself on the rotor properly without dragging the pad(s) on the rotor. Following the instructions by simply pulling the brake lever with the bolts slightly loose will not do. There is something odd about this that I'm unable to put into words. I've also tried eyeballing it, this is the only way I can eliminates drag to a degree so the wheels spin ALMOST freely, but not happy.

3) The pull is extremely spongy (both front and rear), no firmness at all, will not lock up either, and about 3/4 power of my old 11k mile road caliper brakes with worn-out pads. I possibly have 100-200 miles on this setup, with a ton of tinkering in-between.

4) Now this is weird, and took me a long time to figure out. Rocking the bike back and forth with the front brake engaged produces a knocking/popping sound, as if something is loose. I thought the headset was loose, because that's what it felt like, a tiny bit of slop in the front end...so I took it apart twice, examining it. But no, come to find out it's coming from the brake/caliper/rotor because the brakes are not holding the rotor and there is a ever-so slight give from the pads to rotor (yes all rotor and caliper bolts are tight).
What's odd is the centering and spongy feeling problems are with both front and rear brakes. Both are brand new, purchased from eBay, new box, etc, making me think the brakes aren't or shouldn't be defective or needs bleeding??

Anyway, next step re-bleed. But I'm not sure how that will fix the problems.
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
Rick, could you use a 160 mm rear disc, as the only time I use it, in 30 sec bursts, is on long descents to limit the heat build up in both brakes, and for dismounting the bike!

OR when signalling with my right hand, while braking!
This does not apply to the people that drive on the wrong side of the road!!!

Have you checked that each of the posts are vertical and the same distance from the disk?
Look at the video at the top of this page, to see the effect?
 
Last edited:

Rick Youngblood

CarbonCraft Master
Rick, could you use a 160 mm rear disc, as the only time I use it, in 30 sec bursts, is on long descents to limit the heat build up in both brakes, and for dismounting the bike!

OR when signalling with my right hand, while braking!
This does not apply to the people that drive on the wrong side of the road!!!

Have you checked that each of the posts are vertical and the same distance from the disk?
Look at the video at the top of this page, to see the effect?

160 mm will absolutely not work in the rear. 140mm wont work without milling the frame stay. But it's still close, actually too close.

I will check the posts again, it's not easy getting a precise check.

"This does not apply to the people that drive on the wrong side of the road!!!" :D I'm sure you meant right side, right?

I will get front wheel removed later for more pictures.

Up-close images:

2.jpg 1.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 7.jpg 8.jpg 9.jpg
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Those pads are really close.
  1. Remove wheel
  2. Crack the mineral oil bleed screw
  3. Use a small 5mm flat head screw driver to spread the pads as far as you can (oil will leak out)
  4. Tighten bleed screw
  5. Reinstall wheel
  6. Pump the brakes to get the brake pads to re-self adjust
What it looks like is the brake lever got squeezed without a rotor or the stopper installed between the brake pads.
The self adjust is 1 way on those brakes; if it gets too tight then they don't work.

I did that; and that's how mine looked until I fixed it.
 

Rick Youngblood

CarbonCraft Master
Those pads are really close.
  1. Remove wheel
  2. Crack the mineral oil bleed screw
  3. Use a small 5mm flat head screw driver to spread the pads as far as you can (oil will leak out)
  4. Tighten bleed screw
  5. Reinstall wheel
  6. Pump the brakes to get the brake pads to re-self adjust
What it looks like is the brake lever got squeezed without a rotor or the stopper installed between the brake pads.
The self adjust is 1 way on those brakes; if it gets too tight then they don't work.

I did that; and that's how mine looked until I fixed it.
Thanks Bob, I will try that.
 

tiltmaniac

Zen MBB Master
For what it is worth, I had a squishy rear brake (using TRP Spyre) until I realized I had more housing in the frame than I needed.
After removing a few inches (!) of extra housing, my braking was crisp and strong (could lock up the rear).
It is another thing to look into if you haven't.
 

Rick Youngblood

CarbonCraft Master
Thanks guys.

Bob, I did the re-bleed. Seemed to give a little more clearance which helped with the drag problem. But the pads to rotor alignment persists and re-viewing SS's first video at the top of the threads seems to make sense with my problem. I'm thinking I'm just not getting the pads parallel to the rotors. Something is amiss either with tabs or calipers. With the levers pulled tight and 5mm caliper bolts slightly loose, once I start the tightening process with the 5mm hex wrench, the bolt moves the caliper and disc with it causing the alignment to fault. I've even tried holding the caliper with my third hand after pulling the brake lever, but it still moves.I've read others having this happen, but can't seem to find out why it's happening. I've ordered the Birzman Clam Disc Brake Gap Tool from Universal Cycles as shown in SS's first video. When on a quick ride today after making the last adjustments to find the noise and popping in the front ends continues at the end of the stop, which leads me to believe the pads and rotor is not properly aligned.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
I just notice you are using your mount black brackets the reverse of how I did.
I have the offset one on the front and the equal sided one on the back.
 
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