Paris-Brest-Paris 2023?

ed72

Zen MBB Master
Me too. Group B this time, group F last time. In 2019, there were a lot of unused group F spots and they opened them to uprights at the end. SO, I have that as an escape/backup in case I need to ride the bent. B is good because very few serious racer types do 1200k and all the A wave were taken by riders who did 1200k last year.

Here is the start of the Specials in 2019, if anyone is new to PBP, don't fret too much about placement amongst 300+ riders in your wave. The start is controlled for about 10-15 km. I started at the rear a few minutes back and it wasn't too hard to get to the front before the first little town not too far after which they let you lose. You can see regular bikes mixed in.

 

ed72

Zen MBB Master
Nice vid, spotted me at 2:20 (VTX).
Back then I thought the upright bikes in that group counted as "special" because they were retro bikes?
Most of them were just normal uprights, have a look to the very beginning of the clip. I could be wrong, that is what someone told me.
 

CruzinCambridge

Active Member
The NJ400 and 600 routes are now posted, they are not the flat southern NJ routes; rather, they start in the North and go into NY and a touch of CT. Terrain is rolling to hilly much like PBP. I'd say bent friendly, I did part of those routes on NY-Montreal-NY. The road surface in NY is about as good as Massachusetts.

Thanks for the heads-up! It looks like there's a flat pine barrens 400 on April 23... but that conflicts with the NER 200K I was planning to do. I've ridden a number of times around Hudson, Hillsdale and Great Barrington where the four state 400k is taking place May 6 and I remember it being beautiful but hilly... but I'm not in this for the ease I guess. It's going to be a hard choice.
 

CruzinCambridge

Active Member
Today pre-registration was opened to 300K riders and I'm in! I chose specials, Group F. There are still 1,500 open slots.

Now, I just have to do the qualifiers. Here's my SR schdedule:
April 1 - Berkshire Brevet 200K (or maybe NER 100K plus bike to/from for 150ish)
April 22 – New England Randonneur 200K
May 6 – New Jersey Randonneur 400K
May 13 – New England Randonneur 300K
June 17-18 – New England Randonneur 600K
 
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Beano

Well-Known Member
Nice vid, spotted me at 2:20 (VTX).
Back then I thought the upright bikes in that group counted as "special" because they were retro bikes?
That is a weird one watching the vid why you have got normal diamond frame bikes there.. My understanding on what is 'special' is anything but, so yes retro bikes such as a Pashley, any sort of folder, Brompton, Dahon etc, tandems and of course recumbents and velomobiles.

I'm guessing the organisers towards the end of the registration for the F group still had some places so these were opened up to normal bikes.
 

zahid7600

New Member
"MyWindSock" is a mobile app. It isn't cheap, but it calculates the weather, elevation, your power, and a few other factors. I think it is pretty accurate in the general sense, but it isn't as accurate as a windtunnel but we don't ride in a wind tunnel with consistent winds. I've been using it for well over a year and would probably cancel my subscription if I didn't plan on making any changes to my V20 setup, but I have some storage ideas I'd like to try out to see how they affect my CdA. I'm pretty sure they'll make my CdA worse, but I'd like to know how much worse.
 

CruzinCambridge

Active Member
Training Update: I did my first brevet on Saturday. 100k in 5:22. Super slow even by my standards. Moving average of 14.5mph. In my defense, it was 34 and raining at the start... but warmed up to nearly 40 by the finish. It was a great opportunity to test out my gear. My new rain jacket + merino base layer + long sleeve jersey + vest did a great job of keeping my core dry and warm. My PI waterproof gloves were great for about 7 miles, before getting soaked and my hands getting frozen. Descending into the turnaround checkpoint, I had to listen to hear if I was using my brakes since I couldn't feel my hands to know if I was squeezing and getting resistance or not. Same with my booties - totally useless. But this is much better information to learn now than in France. New gloves and waterproof showers pass socks are on order. Spending 1:30 every 100K warming up my hands and feet won't do. 200K is the week after next.
 

Frito Bandito

Zen MBB Master
Nice going. No worries about the time though.

Youtuber Ozcycle has a video of using a mixture of silicon and mineral spirits brushed on his gear that made it waterproof. I don't know how long it smelled like mineral spirits, but it seems to me that short of getting dunked in the ocean it would keep you pretty dry. At least get you some Scotch Guard or something to keep the gloves from getting soaked. I use neoprene gloves inside of snowboard gloves, both with a coat or two of some kind of waterproofing spray. If it is going to be very cold then slip one of those chemical heaters inside of your gloves but opposite of your palm.
 

CruzinCambridge

Active Member
Yesterday I rode the first Brevet of my official PBP qualifying series – the New England Randonneurs 200K from Concord, MA to Mt. Wachusett, Okham, Purgatory Chasm and back. The weather was good for riding. – 42 to start and high of 50, cloudy but mostly dry with light winds.

Boy was it tough. Usualy I have 1 moment in any brevet when I wonder, “what am I doing this for” and think “I don’t think I want to do more of this.” And this ride had two or three. This was a hilly ride, 8,500 feet of vertical total. I’ve done the climb up to Mt. Wachusett twice before but never on the recumbent. When I hit the steep long sections – 5-7% for a quarter mile, I was grinding in my lowest gear with my heart at the red line and could barely keep the bike upright. The muscle action on the Cruzbike was giving me cramps in places I’ve never gotten cramps before. Then there’s a kicker at the base of the last climb of about 9-10% and I couldn’t get traction at all. I walked the steepest section and then got back on the bike and tried to serpentine it… I hit the sand at one edge of the road and put my foot down and jammed on the brakes and literally slid backwards downhill for 5-10 feet. It was pretty dispiriting.

Then, in the middle section of the ride, I was still having trouble with the hills but I kept having mechanicals. I mistakenly shifted into the big/big and maxed out the chain, grinding the bike to a halt and losing the wheel of the group I’d been riding with. Then I kept dropping the chain off the biggest cog and realized I had to avoid it for the remainder of the ride. The last straw was when the hose from my camelback got caught in my rear wheel. No crash, but snapped it off but was able to find it on the shoulder… which was a relief relative to riding the last 50 miles with no hydration options. Oh, and this was on a long climb that I walked most of after throwing my chain and then being unable to restart going uphill at 7%.

But, thinking like a Randonneur, overall, it was a good ride. I finished in a decent time 9:30 vs. 8:30 for my 200k last year which was a lot flatter (3,500 ft). My hydration and nutrition plan worked pretty well (but I need more salt relative to carbs). I learned a lot about my Cruzbike setup and have a list of things to fix:

  • I need a longer chain to prevent cross-chaining/dropping issues
  • I should look into a gearing solution – larger cog or smaller little ring
  • My jury-rigged hose fastening solution for camelback in the fastback double century is clever but not foolproof.
The harder thing to work on (isn’t it always the way) will be the rider. I wish I had trained more strength and hills rather than endurance over the winter. When I finished the flatter 200K last June, it was the mid-point of a 400k and I felt like I could have done the return. Yesterday I finished with decent energy, but can’t imagine doing it twice. Usually I go too hard on the way out and pay for it, but on this ride, I didn’t go too hard on the flats and it’s hard for me to conceive of doing the hills any slower unless I walk… which I may have to do. My next ride is the New Jersey Four State 400K in two weeks which has “only” 12,500 feet of climbing. So only 50% more. That’s what I’m going to focus on – 25% less climbing per mile!Screenshot_20230422_205209_ELEMNT.jpgView attachment 20230422_091748.jpg
 

Derek

Active Member
I had a similar - though slightly less dismal - experience on the Hackettstown 300K 2 weeks ago. The climbs over 10% were rougher than 1-ply tp. . Idea: consider the Cape May ride instead of the 4-stater. I did the Pinelands 400K yesterday and spoke to one of the NJ Rando about the 600k options. 4 state has 8km of climbing while the cape may has only 4km.
 

RAR2

Member
Yesterday I rode the first Brevet of my official PBP qualifying series – the New England Randonneurs 200K from Concord, MA to Mt. Wachusett, Okham, Purgatory Chasm and back. The weather was good for riding. – 42 to start and high of 50, cloudy but mostly dry with light winds.

Boy was it tough. Usualy I have 1 moment in any brevet when I wonder, “what am I doing this for” and think “I don’t think I want to do more of this.” And this ride had two or three. This was a hilly ride, 8,500 feet of vertical total. I’ve done the climb up to Mt. Wachusett twice before but never on the recumbent. When I hit the steep long sections – 5-7% for a quarter mile, I was grinding in my lowest gear with my heart at the red line and could barely keep the bike upright. The muscle action on the Cruzbike was giving me cramps in places I’ve never gotten cramps before. Then there’s a kicker at the base of the last climb of about 9-10% and I couldn’t get traction at all. I walked the steepest section and then got back on the bike and tried to serpentine it… I hit the sand at one edge of the road and put my foot down and jammed on the brakes and literally slid backwards downhill for 5-10 feet. It was pretty dispiriting.

Then, in the middle section of the ride, I was still having trouble with the hills but I kept having mechanicals. I mistakenly shifted into the big/big and maxed out the chain, grinding the bike to a halt and losing the wheel of the group I’d been riding with. Then I kept dropping the chain off the biggest cog and realized I had to avoid it for the remainder of the ride. The last straw was when the hose from my camelback got caught in my rear wheel. No crash, but snapped it off but was able to find it on the shoulder… which was a relief relative to riding the last 50 miles with no hydration options. Oh, and this was on a long climb that I walked most of after throwing my chain and then being unable to restart going uphill at 7%.

But, thinking like a Randonneur, overall, it was a good ride. I finished in a decent time 9:30 vs. 8:30 for my 200k last year which was a lot flatter (3,500 ft). My hydration and nutrition plan worked pretty well (but I need more salt relative to carbs). I learned a lot about my Cruzbike setup and have a list of things to fix:

  • I need a longer chain to prevent cross-chaining/dropping issues
  • I should look into a gearing solution – larger cog or smaller little ring
  • My jury-rigged hose fastening solution for camelback in the fastback double century is clever but not foolproof.
The harder thing to work on (isn’t it always the way) will be the rider. I wish I had trained more strength and hills rather than endurance over the winter. When I finished the flatter 200K last June, it was the mid-point of a 400k and I felt like I could have done the return. Yesterday I finished with decent energy, but can’t imagine doing it twice. Usually I go too hard on the way out and pay for it, but on this ride, I didn’t go too hard on the flats and it’s hard for me to conceive of doing the hills any slower unless I walk… which I may have to do. My next ride is the New Jersey Four State 400K in two weeks which has “only” 12,500 feet of climbing. So only 50% more. That’s what I’m going to focus on – 25% less climbing per mile!View attachment 14648View attachment 14649
CrusinCambridge, I ride a Silvio also and have done many Brevets on it and on my upright. The following are the things that have worked for me


in such rides.B9FE1957-7FF9-445F-B831-AF6CAC28C001.jpeg2753C69F-A776-4DA0-B678-A2DEDDBE5BA1.jpeg170CBC77-180C-40EE-A231-40C58CDB4FE1.jpeg99216473-6BA7-451E-BCA7-61EFF5031CDD.jpegD8D3E4E6-904D-438A-BF96-2576CECA53DD.jpeg
The hostel shop bag isn't big but has a pocket inside for 1.5 liter bladder. I hung it on the back of seat by closing the opening some to keep it high. It also has a support under.B9FE1957-7FF9-445F-B831-AF6CAC28C001.jpeg2753C69F-A776-4DA0-B678-A2DEDDBE5BA1.jpeg170CBC77-180C-40EE-A231-40C58CDB4FE1.jpeg99216473-6BA7-451E-BCA7-61EFF5031CDD.jpegD8D3E4E6-904D-438A-BF96-2576CECA53DD.jpegF8E93EC4-B368-4F70-9DB6-B97780CE1CDD.jpegB6E65B13-179E-42FA-B028-FAD824F0946F.jpegEF6CE754-84B6-42A3-BB3E-7C10313B06F5.jpeg28FE9C97-49C4-4448-9418-B63A6A2C1C0B.jpeg
A 90degree fitting on the bladder hose keeps it from kinking. The hose is velcroed to the seat at the end and middle to keep it from sagging.
Under seat is tire repair kit and tubes. The pump is under seat held in with velcro straps. I run a 1 by drive system which is MTB with a 38 chain ring and 10-46 cassette, 165mm cranks. I have no trouble climbing but I'm not fast...never have been on any bike. Don't hesitate to ask me any thing.

Rick



F8E93EC4-B368-4F70-9DB6-B97780CE1CDD.jpegB6E65B13-179E-42FA-B028-FAD824F0946F.jpegEF6CE754-84B6-42A3-BB3E-7C10313B06F5.jpeg28FE9C97-49C4-4448-9418-B63A6A2C1C0B.jpeg17D2E71E-6AE2-4036-8B56-3553A5617881.jpeg
 
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Derek

Active Member
CrusinCambridge, I ride a Silvio also and have done many Brevets on it and on my upright. The following are the things that have worked for me


in such rides.View attachment 14650View attachment 14651View attachment 14652View attachment 14653View attachment 14654
The hostel shop bag isn't big but has a pocket inside for 1.5 liter bladder. I hung it on the back of seat by closing the opening some to keep it high. It also has a support under.View attachment 14650View attachment 14651View attachment 14652View attachment 14653View attachment 14654View attachment 14655View attachment 14656View attachment 14657View attachment 14658
A 90degree fitting on the bladder hose keeps it from kinking. The hose is velcroed to the seat at the end and middle to keep it from sagging.
Under seat is tire repair kit and tubes. The pump is under seat held in with velcro straps. I run a 1 by drive system which is MTB with a 38 chain ring and 10-46 cassette, 165mm cranks. I have no trouble climbing but I'm not fast...never have been on any bike. Don't hesitate to ask me any thing.

Rick



View attachment 14655View attachment 14656View attachment 14657View attachment 14658View attachment 14659
Is that a garage door opener?
 

CruzinCambridge

Active Member
I had a similar - though slightly less dismal - experience on the Hackettstown 300K 2 weeks ago. The climbs over 10% were rougher than 1-ply tp. . Idea: consider the Cape May ride instead of the 4-stater. I did the Pinelands 400K yesterday and spoke to one of the NJ Rando about the 600k options. 4 state has 8km of climbing while the cape may has only 4km.
Not dismal. Just dispiriting now and then. Derek, I'd have loved to do the Pinelands over the 4-state, but the timing didn't work out. I'm trying to do less travel and more rides with the NER, but my son's high school graduation is during their 400K. Great tip on the 600K. I assumed it wasn't licensed as an official 400k since it's not co-listed, but it looks like they run it as 400K+200K, so maybe. Or I guess I could always do 2 600Ks? Well, can't hurt to ask.
 

CruzinCambridge

Active Member
@RAR2 Thanks for running out to the garage and posting those pics. The 90 degree fitting may be the missing piece I wasn't thinking of! Right now I have the hose from the bladder running up to my shoulder and then down to my hip or over my shoulder to my chest. I have a magnet on my bibs for when I'm riding a straightway and a magnet on the seat at my hip for when I'm coming to an intersection and going to be sitting up... but the transfer from one to the other isn't always smooth, especially when the unexpected's happening. With the 90 degree fitting I should be able to run it down on the seat and then use velcro so it stays put.

I don't know if I'll be able to fit a 10-46 without changing out my derailleur, but I think I can go a bit bigger. Oh, and fixing the chain length so I can actually use the lowest cog reliably will be a big help.

Now if I can just figure out a way to fit a garage door into my house I'll be all set.
 

ed72

Zen MBB Master
I have done the various NJ 300K like the Hacketstown one on both upright and M5 CHR. Some of the hills? I walk with the bent. For instance, the climb on Reservoir Rd out of Hacketstown, I would walk and the last section of Slyker at 15%. Other than that, I ride. The NJ15 has two more hills that I walk. Anyway. I've done a good bit of the 4 State 400k on my upright, the hills are not as steep nor is the overall climbing similar to the NJ 300K that was done 2 weeks ago, which was 100km flat and then 100km very hilly with steep and also longer climbs than PBP and then 100km relatively flat. The 4 states is more similar to the terrain on PBP, constantly rolling with nearly all gradients in the 4-8% range mostly although it has some longer climbs than PBP. Hacketstown 300K terrain is nothing like PBP. I'm doing the 600K version, possibly on the bent after yesterday's fun.

I met Derek briefly on the route yesterday, I was on an upright fighting the wind most of the day imputing the speed I would have achieved at the power needed to crawl at 13-14 mph into a 15mph wind on the upright. 18-19 mph was my calculation. And I was on aero bars!
 

RAR2

Member
Cruzin, you will need a Sram derailleur for a 10 - 46 but what ever big one works for you to not go into the red zone on a 7% climb.
I climb 10% a lot with my setup , it's not easy but I don't have to stop and walk.
For me Brevets are all about steady pace, IMOP, I learned the hard way to not go hard and fast at the start.
 
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