Paris-Brest-Paris 2023?

[CruzinCambridge]

I have done the various NJ 300K like the Hacketstown one on both upright and M5 CHR. Some of the hills? I walk with the bent. For instance, the climb on Reservoir Rd out of Hacketstown, I would walk and the last section of Slyker at 15%. Other than that, I ride. The NJ15 has two more hills that I walk. Anyway. I've done a good bit of the 4 State 400k on my upright, the hills are not as steep nor is the overall climbing similar to the NJ 300K that was done 2 weeks ago, which was 100km flat and then 100km very hilly with steep and also longer climbs than PBP and then 100km relatively flat. The 4 states is more similar to the terrain on PBP, constantly rolling with nearly all gradients in the 4-8% range mostly although it has some longer climbs than PBP. Hacketstown 300K terrain is nothing like PBP. I'm doing the 600K version, possibly on the bent after yesterday's fun.

I met Derek briefly on the route yesterday, I was on an upright fighting the wind most of the day imputing the speed I would have achieved at the power needed to crawl at 13-14 mph into a 15mph wind on the upright. 18-19 mph was my calculation. And I was on aero bars!

@ed72 Thanks for the encouraging word about the four states. That will help my anxiety level over the next two weeks. I'll be sure to curse your name when I find the hills you forgot about ;-). I will also try to remind myself when I'm dragging myself up hills that at least I'm not fighting the headwinds.

@RAR2 I have a SRAM Rival setup and it's not a short cage... but I'm going to be combing through my options. Where did you get the L-Bends? The best I've been able to find are these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FJGVTTM?smid=A2L4UZMU1PQF6L&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1

 

[ed72]

If you see 15%, curse at will. Like PBP there are some short pitches at 10% but nothing sustained at 10%. Hey.....not saying it will be easy, just that it should be about as hard as PBP although so early in the year, it will feel harder than in August if that makes sense. I used to be able to ride fast, even walking short steep hills. There is no shame and there is a benefit. Gives the muscles a rest. Jan Heine often walks steep ones, too, and he is fast. If you get to a steep on. Get off and walk. Try it, honestly

 

[DavidCH]

Yesterday I rode the first Brevet of my official PBP qualifying series – the New England Randonneurs 200K from Concord, MA to Mt. Wachusett, Okham, Purgatory Chasm and back. The weather was good for riding. – 42 to start and high of 50, cloudy but mostly dry with light winds.

Boy was it tough. Usualy I have 1 moment in any brevet when I wonder, “what am I doing this for” and think “I don’t think I want to do more of this.” And this ride had two or three. This was a hilly ride, 8,500 feet of vertical total. I’ve done the climb up to Mt. Wachusett twice before but never on the recumbent. When I hit the steep long sections – 5-7% for a quarter mile, I was grinding in my lowest gear with my heart at the red line and could barely keep the bike upright. The muscle action on the Cruzbike was giving me cramps in places I’ve never gotten cramps before. Then there’s a kicker at the base of the last climb of about 9-10% and I couldn’t get traction at all. I walked the steepest section and then got back on the bike and tried to serpentine it… I hit the sand at one edge of the road and put my foot down and jammed on the brakes and literally slid backwards downhill for 5-10 feet. It was pretty dispiriting.

Then, in the middle section of the ride, I was still having trouble with the hills but I kept having mechanicals. I mistakenly shifted into the big/big and maxed out the chain, grinding the bike to a halt and losing the wheel of the group I’d been riding with. Then I kept dropping the chain off the biggest cog and realized I had to avoid it for the remainder of the ride. The last straw was when the hose from my camelback got caught in my rear wheel. No crash, but snapped it off but was able to find it on the shoulder… which was a relief relative to riding the last 50 miles with no hydration options. Oh, and this was on a long climb that I walked most of after throwing my chain and then being unable to restart going uphill at 7%.

But, thinking like a Randonneur, overall, it was a good ride. I finished in a decent time 9:30 vs. 8:30 for my 200k last year which was a lot flatter (3,500 ft). My hydration and nutrition plan worked pretty well (but I need more salt relative to carbs). I learned a lot about my Cruzbike setup and have a list of things to fix:

• I need a longer chain to prevent cross-chaining/dropping issues
• I should look into a gearing solution – larger cog or smaller little ring
• My jury-rigged hose fastening solution for camelback in the fastback double century is clever but not foolproof.

The harder thing to work on (isn’t it always the way) will be the rider. I wish I had trained more strength and hills rather than endurance over the winter. When I finished the flatter 200K last June, it was the mid-point of a 400k and I felt like I could have done the return. Yesterday I finished with decent energy, but can’t imagine doing it twice. Usually I go too hard on the way out and pay for it, but on this ride, I didn’t go too hard on the flats and it’s hard for me to conceive of doing the hills any slower unless I walk… which I may have to do. My next ride is the New Jersey Four State 400K in two weeks which has “only” 12,500 feet of climbing. So only 50% more. That’s what I’m going to focus on – 25% less climbing per mile!View attachment 14648View attachment 14649

Gosh... almost thinking it would be best for 2 bikes on such a challenging randoneer.

 

[Derek]

@CruzinCambridge - your word choice is better. Language fortifies feelings, and being less negative is a WIP for me! The lost traction, my pedal coming unclipped at the moment of steepest ascent, and dropping my chain twice while transitioning to the big ring on the payoff descents were all just DISPIRITING. The rest of the ride was awesome!

@ed72 - nice to meet you and yeah, if you had taken out the M5 we would have been cutting through that headwind together. The crosswinds however were a different story. Was a bit dicey with a 80mm front rim and rear disc. Thanks for the context on the Hackettstown vs 4-State ride. You’ve given me something to think about as sticking with the 4-state gives one the Cape May ride as a backup. On the other hand, given the 2.5hrs I had to spare for the 400k R60, I figured I’d try my hand at a 600k R60 time and that the 4-stater might be brutal for that.

 

[RAR2]

@ed72 Thanks for the encouraging word about the four states. That will help my anxiety level over the next two weeks. I'll be sure to curse your name when I find the hills you forgot about ;-). I will also try to remind myself when I'm dragging myself up hills that at least I'm not fighting the headwinds.

@RAR2 I have a SRAM Rival setup and it's not a short cage... but I'm going to be combing through my options. Where did you get the L-Bends? The best I've been able to find are these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FJGVTTM?smid=A2L4UZMU1PQF6L&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1

I don't remember where I got it, maybe Lowes or Home Depot. Possibly a small local hardware would have one.

 

[CruzinCambridge]

If you see 15%, curse at will. Like PBP there are some short pitches at 10% but nothing sustained at 10%. Hey.....not saying it will be easy, just that it should be about as hard as PBP although so early in the year, it will feel harder than in August if that makes sense. I used to be able to ride fast, even walking short steep hills. There is no shame and there is a benefit. Gives the muscles a rest. Jan Heine often walks steep ones, too, and he is fast. If you get to a steep on. Get off and walk. Try it, honestly

@ed72 I meant it totally tongue in cheek. I'll do both... get a lower gear and then take the opportunity to stand up, eat something, enjoy the view. I have a lot of work to do changing my mindset from USCF wannabe to Recumbent Randonneur.

 

[ed72]

@CruzinCambridge - your word choice is better. Language fortifies feelings, and being less negative is a WIP for me! The lost traction, my pedal coming unclipped at the moment of steepest ascent, and dropping my chain twice while transitioning to the big ring on the payoff descents were all just DISPIRITING. The rest of the ride was awesome!

@ed72 - nice to meet you and yeah, if you had taken out the M5 we would have been cutting through that headwind together. The crosswinds however were a different story. Was a bit dicey with a 80mm front rim and rear disc. Thanks for the context on the Hackettstown vs 4-State ride. You’ve given me something to think about as sticking with the 4-state gives one the Cape May ride as a backup. On the other hand, given the 2.5hrs I had to spare for the 400k R60, I figured I’d try my hand at a 600k R60 time and that the 4-stater might be brutal for that.

That is my thinking, too. The Cape May 600k is my backup qualifier. I got a very late start due to Covid and am still having problems, so, I could fail. I intend to "try" to ride thru the night but I think my R60 days are over although I do need to be able to ride from Rambouillet to Villaine without stopping and then onwards to Brest before sleeping (with a 5:15 pm Sunday start), so, maybe R70 ish. Worst case, I stop at 475k at my house to sleep and reroute 2 miles to the course in the morning. The last 200k after Princeton on day 2 are decent roads for night riding with the exception of just North of Princeton on Great Rd and Cherry Valley (not bad but not the best route out of Princeton IMO but it is often used by cyclists). Only road I really do not like is the right turn off Pleasant Valley Road at mile 31 onto Route 29 north. It is busy and narrow at spots with potholes lurking here and there for 7 miles until Stockton after which there is a wide shoulder and much lower traffic volume. There is a rail trail that parallels it that recreational cyclists use. Even on a recumbent with a 5:30 am start, this stretch will be in the dark......I think. My fastest south NJ 400k is 13:24 (upright) and 14:47 on the bent with a flat and mechanical. If one could get thru the first 400k in 13:30 and get right back onto it, I suppose that stretch could be in the last light. The whole way up the river until Philipsburg/Alpha is flat and fast. From P-Burg to Bloomsbury at mile 74 begins a climb up Jugtown Mt and it is a bit nasty on a bent with 12-15% stretches with one sharp turn. After that there is a climb from Pittstown thru Quakertown into Cherryville that is the last real climb at around mile 85-86. Then, a screamer descent into Flemington around mile 89-90, after which the route is flat or rolling.

 

[CruzinCambridge]

OK. I've fixed my hydration system. I bought all the "l-bends" I could find but then I figured out a much better bodge - I've got a retractable belt clip for my work ID attached to the hose so if I lose the handle on it, it retracts back to the edge of my seat (and usually finds the magnet I've glued there) instead of flopping about. Pictures to come.

I've also got a bodge for my gearing. I found a SRAM Force 1x derailleur and bought a 42-11 cassette.... but I didn't switch out the cranks... so I've got a Frankenstein 22... with a 52-38 on the front. It took my three tries to get the chain length right. I thought it would be totally dangerous and unreliable, but so far it's pretty good as long as I don't cross-chain it in the top two cogs... and even then it fails kind of gracefully... the jockey wheel hits the cog and makes a racket before it grinds to a halt. I think that's what most of the pundits recommend - swap out your drivetrain for something experimental and unreliable before you leave for a 20 hour ride across four states.

I've edited together some of the video I took on the 200k... which is largely an podcast of this thread but with a nice look up my nose while you're hearing it.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Congrats on the ride. Love the SRAM stuff and those glasses you have with the mirror on the side of the lense. I haven't bought them yet, but my cycling friend did and they work well without cluttering up your bars.

 

[CruzinCambridge]

Here's the new drivetrain. SRAM Force 1x rear mech with an 11-42 and the SRAM Rival front 2x mech with SRAM Force cranks (that I found in 165mm so I don't want to swap out for 1x) and 52-38. I took it to my LBS to get it tuned up and ask if it was crazy-dangerous or crazy-brilliant. We decided on the latter.

After completing the NJR 400K (burrying the lede... ride report to come) I can say it's stood up to some pretty rigorous testing. It's not the quietest drive train... there's a fair amount of chatter from the rear derailleur ... especially in little-little (I was surprised I could get it into both the 38-42 and the 38-11). It's a little hard to get into the 38-42.. especially under load. It really doesn't like jumping 2 gears at a time in the middle of the range in the little ring - the jockey wheel at the top is so far away it wanders about. So you have to remember to shift one gear at a time. Then, if you try to go from little-little to the big ring, it throws the chain. The good news is you can see it happening and reverse it half the time. I finally figured out it shifts up to the big ring more reliably from the 13 or 15.

It was great to have the 38-37 and 38-42. Mostly I climbed in the 38-37 which is still 16% lower than the 38-32 that was my lowest before and a whopping 30% lower than the 38-28 that I was climbing in a lot since I couldn't reliably get it into the 32 tooth cog.

There was one occasion when I was hanging onto the back of a paceline and I missed having more gears at the top end. There's a big jump between the 52-11 and the 52-13 and 15... vs having 11,12,13,14 before. But that's a much less critical problem than getting uphill.

Oh, and you can't use the 42, 39 or 32 in the big ring. Not at all. The good news is the derailleur starts complaining so lout in the 52-28 , it's pretty easy to remember to shift down.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Looks like a nice setup.

My chain seems to be rubbing on the outboard side of the FD when on the 53/11, and when I shift all the way to the 34 on the cassette it almost freezes up. It's a 12 speed chain but I am not sure if that freeze up is a multitude of plates rubbing together or the angle is too high causing friction between the chain and cassette, or something else. My RD specs are for a max 33t cassette, but I have read that the Ultegra 34 is fine when the B-screw is maxed out. With the setup tool it looks like it has plenty of clearance, but oh well. I have the gear selection icon on my Lezyne Mega XL computer so I just watch that to stay off the 53/34 combo when climbing.

When on the 36t front, it performs flawlessly on all of the gears, but it won't let me shift to the 11t cassette. It shows a blinking red/green light on the RD when I try. I might have to check the SRAM app to see if there is something in the settings I can do but it isn't a priority since I don't climb anything significant.

Glad to hear your setup got you through the event though. Any thoughts of making adjustments to it?

 

[Derek]

Here's the new drivetrain. SRAM Force 1x rear mech with an 11-42 and the SRAM Rival front 2x mech with SRAM Force cranks (that I found in 165mm so I don't want to swap out for 1x) and 52-38. I took it to my LBS to get it tuned up and ask if it was crazy-dangerous or crazy-brilliant. We decided on the latter.

After completing the NJR 400K (burrying the lede... ride report to come) I can say it's stood up to some pretty rigorous testing. It's not the quietest drive train... there's a fair amount of chatter from the rear derailleur ... especially in little-little (I was surprised I could get it into both the 38-42 and the 38-11). It's a little hard to get into the 38-42.. especially under load. It really doesn't like jumping 2 gears at a time in the middle of the range in the little ring - the jockey wheel at the top is so far away it wanders about. So you have to remember to shift one gear at a time. Then, if you try to go from little-little to the big ring, it throws the chain. The good news is you can see it happening and reverse it half the time. I finally figured out it shifts up to the big ring more reliably from the 13 or 15.

It was great to have the 38-37 and 38-42. Mostly I climbed in the 38-37 which is still 16% lower than the 38-32 that was my lowest before and a whopping 30% lower than the 38-28 that I was climbing in a lot since I couldn't reliably get it into the 32 tooth cog.

There was one occasion when I was hanging onto the back of a paceline and I missed having more gears at the top end. There's a big jump between the 52-11 and the 52-13 and 15... vs having 11,12,13,14 before. But that's a much less critical problem than getting uphill.

Oh, and you can't use the 42, 39 or 32 in the big ring. Not at all. The good news is the derailleur starts complaining so lout in the 52-28 , it's pretty easy to remember to shift down.

I’m curious, what is your lighting setup?

 

[CruzinCambridge]

@Frito Bandito I have Di2 on my DF bike and love having the gear display on my Wahoo. As far as adjustments... I think I'm good for this season. The mechanic said part of my throwing my chain issue is that the front derailleur stalk is too far away and not adjustable. Anybody else have this issue? I got a fancy YKK chain with the black coating to match the front triangle, which the mechanic says is part of the chatter I'm hearing - the rear mech doesn't like the extra 200 microns. So I might do that and move the black chain over to my DF (though moving chains between drive trains is against my nature... but I only have maybe 500 miles on the black chain). The mechanic has suggested that the big upgrade would be to move to SRAM Eagle 1x 12 speed with a 12-52 which would give me the gear range I'm looking for and reliable shifting. But that's a lot of hardware - I'd need new 1x cranks. Finding them in 165's going to be hard. And I'd need new brifters. Looks like it's $2 grand new... and hard to find on ebay... but I may start looking.

@Derek I got a set of SON dynamo wheels from Hunt over the winter before they hit supply chain issues (last I checked they were on back order till August). I just finally got it wired up with a SON Edelux light front and rear and Sinewave USB charger. I have the sinewave and a passthrough battery in a Cruzbike sling bag under the seat along with my tools and then just a regular USB cable wired up to my bars. On the 400K I was able to recharge my phone and my Wahoo from the battery, but I'm not sure whether the Sinewave was really working or not. I'm not sure if I wasn't generating enough power to recharge the battery or whether the cable was working its way loose as I rummaged around for my brevet card. That's in the plan for this week - deplete the battery to 0% and then see how much it charges in 2 hours of riding.

 

[Derek]

That’s great! I thought that was a Son light I saw in a NJ Rando pic of your setup on Facebook. I am not that committed to night riding so my plan was just to buy a few spare 8v batteries and threw them in my Brain Bag., but I am envious of your setup!

 

[CruzinCambridge]

Ride report video for the NJ Randonneurs 400K:

I'm feeling pretty good, all things considered. The NE Randonneurs 300K is this Saturday so I'm planning to take it pretty easy this week... maybe a recovery ride or two. My right hip flexor is super sore. While riding I felt some pain in my left knee... and based on the left knee / right hip flexor I think I'm shifting left in the seat a little.

 

[ed72]

Congrats on the 400K finish. The road surface was really bad but there was some good scenery. I was chatting with a couple PBP Anciens towards the end at the last control and all felt that the route was a little harder than PBP, if that helps. Bad roads screw with my neck and other assorted orthopedic issues, so, I was asking them their opinion because I was struggling a bit. I was on 32 mm at 55 psi. My new Garmin 1040 solar misrouted me 3 times but only twice did I have to climb to rejoin the brevet course. FUNky. I took it out on a 20 mile ride today and it misrouted me twice. Scary. My old 1030 never did that.

 

[Derek]

Ride report video for the NJ Randonneurs 400K:

I'm feeling pretty good, all things considered. The NE Randonneurs 300K is this Saturday so I'm planning to take it pretty easy this week... maybe a recovery ride or two. My right hip flexor is super sore. While riding I felt some pain in my left knee... and based on the left knee / right hip flexor I think I'm shifting left in the seat a little.

Nice job on a hilly 300k! Any grades so steep you needed to dismount and walk the bike?

 

[CruzinCambridge]

Nice job on a hilly 300k! Any grades so steep you needed to dismount and walk the bike?

Ride report on the NER 300K:

Fifty Barn 300k

Note: Includes minor detour for Norwottuck (Amherst) Rail Trail. Addition notes added 5/12/2023 New England Randonneurs 300k route first used in 2... - 186.9 mi, +11581 ft. Bike ride in Concord, MA

ridewithgps.com

Thanks @Derek! There were two places where I *chose* to walk the bike. On the NJR 400K there weren't any hills so steep that I couldn't keep the front heel down. Thanks @ed72 for the accurate report! For the NER 300K there were two spots where the grade pitched up over 10% and I decided it was better to put my foot down than spike my heart rate. One was a short kicker in the first half. I had just lost contact with the group I was in by dropping my chain so I took a pee break and walked to the top. The other was in the second half - a sustained 15% hill at Tully Pond where with my fatigue I was pedaling squares and was likely to slip on every pedal stroke. That was the biggest issue... keeping a focus on a smooth pedal stroke while sitting up to put more weight on the drive wheel and keeping the bike reasonably straight. In the next few weeks I'm going to practice climbing while sitting up which I do mostly as a last resort, but need better practice for when I hit that last resort.

Doing the 300 after the 400 on a beautiful day (high of 78 and sunny... ) and a beautiful route, felt pretty blissful and easy. My legs were still pretty sore for the entire first half. I kept waiting for my legs to warm up and then got anxious when my legs still felt heavy at the first checkpoint at mile 60. I started to feel better at mile 90 in Amherst with the bulk of the climbing behind me and a strong cold brew in my system. I kept feeling better and better as the ride went on and felt good enough to be able to charge up the last 10 or so climbs. After the 400 I had a good sense of how much I can put out and still recover. I did have two new physical issues ... I started having pain at the base of my heel... which I thought might be achiles issues since my calves had been tight all week and I'd been trying to stretch them. I think it was just my shoes rubbing because I left them a little loose. I also am experiencing some numbness in the pinky and ring finger of my left hand. I've had this before but not since I was a teenager and wrestling... so sit seems like holding onto a Cruzbike handlebar for 15 hours while climbing up hills is akin to having an 18 year old twist your arm in a half nelson. The numbness appears to be subsiding. I'm going to double-wrap the bars and work on my position and grip and look into some "nerve flossing" work.

I had some issues with the rear suspension on the S30 making a lot of noise and sapping some power when I was pedaling squares up hill in the second half. Anybody else have these issues? Is there maintenance I should be doing to the rear suspension? Do I need to change out the elastomer? It could also just have been the Thor seat flexing making the noise.

Finally, my frankentrain was good on the 400K and a solid okay on the 300K. I figured out how to baby the front derailleur so that I only threw the chain maybe three times. The issue on this ride was that in the small ring, it didn't like to find a gear in the middle of the cassette. If I weren't in the bottom or top 2, it would throw out noises like the transmission on my old used bell telephone van and keep trying to hop a gear and slipping. On the 400 this happened occasionally but I could coax it into a smooth gear by upshifting and then downshifting. It liked going down more than up.... but not this time. I may be headed back to the shop to move to the Eagle 1x12 setup. I rode for a while with Andy from the NJ Randonneurs who had staffed the second checkpoint on the NJR 400K Randonneurs.

Ride by the numbers: 190 miles (I missed a turn)

 

[Andreas]

Great video and reports @CruzinCambridge, so much fun to read and watch. I have respect for your 300k, it contains quite a bit of climbing.

I rode my 200k this year on the Vendetta. That was by far the fastest net time. If I hadn't had a flat tire, it would also have been the best overall time.

For the 300k I then took the VTX again, for 400K (this Friday) 600k will do as well.
I only have 3000 KM on the Vendetta and we need to get to know each other a bit better before I want to do longer night rides with it.

I still have a second 600k as a fallback at the end of June. If I have secured the qualification by then, I will probably switch the bike again . Even if this one takes place in Switzerland, it will be a relatively flat Bevet, so ideal for the Vendetta.
There is one bigger climb in it (6km / 600m => average 10%), which I will most likely walk from the beginning.
Therefore I am for some time looking for frame bags that I can hang under the seat (standard) and that are both large enough and reasonably aerodynamic. In Mathews Bike tours today I found again some ideas on his (old?) V20.
If I do not find anything, I can take my clunky banana racer.

I hope we will shake hands in Paris, even if I don't show up with the vendetta.

 

[Frito Bandito]

There is one bigger climb in it (6km / 600m => average 10%), which I will most likely walk from the beginning.
Therefore I am for some time looking for frame bags that I can hang under the seat (standard) and that are both large enough and reasonably aerodynamic. In Mathews Bike tours today I found again some ideas on his (old?) V20.
If I do not find anything, I can take my clunky banana racer.

I hope we will shake hands in Paris, even if I don't show up with the vendetta.

I have been looking for storage options on my V20, and I didn't have a chance to look completely through Matthew's Bike Tour thread yet, so I don't know if it is has been included, but I was looking for something similar. I have found a few options to consider in a pinch. Seeing a folding camping chair storage bag that was almost the same length as the V20 seat lead to a search for similarly shaped bags that were a little more versatile. I saw a Gravis IV Bodybag at a used shop but it was in pretty bad shape. There must be something else out there that is similar that could be connected under the seat and/or to the frame with adhesive backed velcro. You might search for something like these and find something sporty than you can spray with a water repellant that will last long enough to get you through the event.


Sling Bag
Men's cross bodybag

Hope this helps