Paris-Brest-Paris 2023?

[Mathew Fy]

Mathews Bike tours today I found again some ideas on his (old?) V20.

Yes, I’ve tried a few things. I still like the tail bag on a rack.
A side bag’s nice, but catches some wind.
Both are seen here.
I know of one CBer who used tennis racket covers there.

You probably saw I had a Radical Design bag on the back for a while.

TransAm’s setup looks nice

I’m currently loving an M5 tail box that holds quite a bit. My CdA is averaging around 0.23. Haven’t tried a heavy load there, but I understand the bike can get unstable that way. I’ve seen the tail-wagging-the-dog on others.

I have plans to do some self-supported touring and have a set of side bags for that purpose, probably using a strap to reduce swaying.

 

[Andreas]

Thanks a lot for your ideas.
I'm not sure i want to tinker that much to securely attach a sling bag to the bike. But these bags for camping chairs would have the advantage that I could fold them smaller when I put on the night clothes or used up all the food I took with me.
These tennis bags are a very exciting idea and probably very aero. however, i doubt that the position of the zipper and organizing the contents is practical.

if I had a Thor seat, I would probably have already bought the Radical Solo Aero. I am also very satisfied with the quality of my Banana Racer. At the Spezi 2 weeks ago I had a nice chat with one of the guys from Radical. He told me that someone had attached the Solo Racer in an unusual way on a Cruzbike. I still have to give him my mail, then he will send me a picture.

Mathew, your side bags more what I'm actually looking for. What size is your Revelate?
I have already found dozens models that could fit well.
Here is one nicely shaped from Geosmina:


And this one from Blackburn is expandable (but less aero?):



Both are available in sizes up to 5 liters.
With the one that I attach to the left side, I would have to remove the divider in order to access the main compartment from the left as well.
This would give me 10 liters + 2-3 liters of my current bags (saddlebag on the headrest, top tube bag in the triangle under the seat and a small one in front under the boom).
In numbers this is still less than a single side of my Banana Racer, but I made the experience, the more space you have, the more unnecessary things you drive arround.

By the way, here is a very extensive collection of bag manufacturers, not up-to-date anymore, but with information on whether you can also get customized bags: Cycling about

 

[Mathew Fy]

Mathew, your side bags more what I'm actually looking for.

I briefly tried the Blackburn (small), didn't love it. The expandability is not as helpful as I thought it would be
I used the Revelate Designs Tangle (medium) a long time. I used it on my multi-day credit card tour. @Doug Kline shared his experience: https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/sometimes-you-just-need-a-little-bigger-sling-pack.12223/
Both of these were on the starboard side as the compartments opened from the right. There are small compartments that zip on the left. I had cut the straps and screwed the bags to the seat with rivet nuts, so portability was not a feature.

On the port side of my 2016 V20 resides a Jandd frame bag. I liked that it fit my bike lock and I could get into it on-the-fly. It's still attached, but not doing much. That bike has trainer duty.

 

[Andreas]

Good to have someone who owns the blackburn. From the pictures it looks like the Revelate is higher even though it's 4.5 inch and the Blackburn 5.5. This is probably because the Blackburn is dimensionally stable and the Revelate is not. The Blackburn in 5 liters would be about as long as your Revelate Medium (4 liters) but 7 inches high.

What I like about the Blackburn is that it has no sewn on straps and lots of different places to put straps through.
What's the reason you're not so excited?
Just because it's too small or more for technical reasons?
And would my idea of cutting the inner wall (port side) would work or do you think the bags will become unstable then?

 

[Mathew Fy]

Good to have someone who owns the blackburn. From the pictures it looks like the Revelate is higher even though it's 4.5 inch and the Blackburn 5.5. This is probably because the Blackburn is dimensionally stable and the Revelate is not. The Blackburn in 5 liters would be about as long as your Revelate Medium (4 liters) but 7 inches high.

What I like about the Blackburn is that it has no sewn on straps and lots of different places to put straps through.
What's the reason you're not so excited?
Just because it's too small or more for technical reasons?
And would my idea of cutting the inner wall (port side) would work or do you think the bags will become unstable then?

Removing the inner divider on either will provide full access and not compromise integrity of the bags. The Blackburn’s left side zipper is about an inch shorter (starts further away from the angled end.)
As for the utility of getting a zipper expandable bag, I think it’s better to get one just large enough to carry what you need. Remember that it can get cold on PBP, and comfortable rest breaks may be taken when you’re ready. I’m sure you saw Tor’s post & video where he described getting three hours sleep “on a cold tile floor at the bottom of a stairwell.”
Bless you all for doing these ultra events, it’s way out of my league. To quote Shark Tank, “and for these reasons, I’m out.”

 

[Derek]

I don’t see folks mentioning the Scarab bag, but it’s pretty sizeable, keeps the weight low to the ground, and is reasonably aero given the previous two points. Added about .04 to my CdA yesterday when I did a test run of the final 200km of the 600k I’m doing next weekend. .237 CdA total. Why do people seem to shy away from it?

https://strava.app.link/cEgXqjFYUzb

 

[Frito Bandito]

I have one Derek, but rarely go on rides that I need that much storage. Well, not rarely. Almost never. I gotta say that it looks durable and spacious, but also looks like it causes a lot of drag. I have never tested it with MyWindSock so I am just going by eye. But it would be nice to see how much it affects CdA also to see if it is similar with your data.

 

[Andreas]

Thanks Mathew. Yes, PBP is yet another story than a 600, my Banana Racers were fully loaded. I used an emergency blanket from an first aid kit and was impressed and was amazed at how warm it kept me.

I don’t see folks mentioning the Scarab bag, but it’s pretty sizeable, keeps the weight low to the ground, and is reasonably aero given the previous two points. Added about .04 to my CdA yesterday when I did a test run of the final 200km of the 600k I’m doing next weekend. .237 CdA total. Why do people seem to shy away from it?

https://strava.app.link/cEgXqjFYUzb

I actually didn't consider the scarab bag until now. I may well be wrong, but I think that the luggage is better placed behind the seat so as not to increase CdA's A.
And the shop does not list the liters to classify the size.
Nice, your 200k. Seems you walk those 12% as me
Already have the new Garmin 840? I will soon replace my 810 with it, the battery lasts only 6-7 hours.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Thanks Mathew. Yes, PBP is yet another story than a 600, my Banana Racers were fully loaded. I used an emergency blanket from an first aid kit and was impressed and was amazed at how warm it kept me.

I actually didn't consider the scarab bag until now. I may well be wrong, but I think that the luggage is better placed behind the seat so as not to increase CdA's A.
And the shop does not list the liters to classify the size.
Nice, your 200k. Seems you walk those 12% as me
Already have the new Garmin 840? I will soon replace my 810 with it, the battery lasts only 6-7 hours.

If you are already with Garmin check out the 1040 solar. From the reviews I've read that 1 has a pretty long battery life and probably isn't that much more expensive. I was going to jump into the Garmin dark side, but I have a Lezyne Mega XL that claims a 48 hour battery life. I only run a power meter and my SRAM AXS on it but it also lasts a long time.

 

[Andreas]

If you are already with Garmin check out the 1040 solar. From the reviews I've read that 1 has a pretty long battery life and probably isn't that much more expensive. I was going to jump into the Garmin dark side, but I have a Lezyne Mega XL that claims a 48 hour battery life. I only run a power meter and my SRAM AXS on it but it also lasts a long time.

Thanks for the tip, but the decision for the 840 is already made.
I can get the 1040 here even cheaper than the 840, but it's too big for me and I like the option of controlling all functions via buttons in addition to the touchscreen. And I also do without solar. If you're on the road for 24h then that makes only a few percent and I charge the Garmin anyway via a dynamo.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Yeah, I am not a huge fan of touchscreens so much either Andreas, especially big ones. The Mega XL is buttons only (and smart phone) are kind of smallish so I don't have much blocking my view. Touchscreens are great unless it is raining, then it all goes South quickly. Dynamos seem pretty nice but I am a noob to them so I have just relied on either disposable batteries or recharging whenever I can.

 

[CruzinCambridge]

Here's my 300K Recap video. I'm talking less and biking more. I biked in groups from the mid-point on and so was narrating less. I think I'm going to look into stowing the phone and using a friend's gopro with image stabilization for the 600K.

@Andreas I look forward to seeing you in Ramboullet!

@Derek On bags, I tried the Scarab bag but (a) it doesn't work with my T-Cycle double century which I like for hydration and also where I have my cruzbike sling bag with my battery and Dyno/USB charger. And (b) it' a little hard to access and with one big and awkwardly shaped pocket, it seemed like it would be hard to find stuff. I'm planning to pair my double century bags with a Radical Solo Aero. It will mean the weight's a little higher. It's also a good question on whether I'll have enough storage for PBP. I can just barely fit overnight cold/wet weather gear in one side of the double century leaving the Radical for a change of kit and food etc. I'm planning an overnight ride in August to test it out.

I went for a recovery ride on Weds and decided what I have is a right hip flexor strain and rather than working on hill repeats, I should probably shut it down for two weeks to see if it can heal. Just when the weather was getting nice. Wish me luck.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Here's my 300K Recap video. I'm talking less and biking more. I biked in groups from the mid-point on and so was narrating less. I think I'm going to look into stowing the phone and using a friend's gopro with image stabilization for the 600K.

CC, I have a GoPro 7 with native image stabilization and I like it. I think none of the earlier GoPros didn't have native image stabilization so I wouldn't recommend anything earlier than a 7 unless you have software to stabilize it. Make sure you either carry spare batteries, or plan plenty of stops to recharge it, but the battery life leaves a bit to be desired if you record in anything greater than 1080p. There is a Time Warp setting that speeds things up a bit that I like, but you gotta see beforehand which speed is appropriate for different segments of the race. Some long sections might be good at 10x, while shorter sections would be better at 5x or maybe even 2x. This video was done at 5x, and uploaded directly from my Gopro to my ocmputer and then to youtube without any editing.

 

[Beano]

Scarab bag does work and I used it when I done PBP back in 2015.

Whilst I appreciate people like to take some luxury's on the bike with them be careful about carrying unnecessary kit. Always good to distinguish between what you actually need on a brevet and what you actually want/would like. Especially when the parcours of PBP is many many 3-6% rolling hills which you have to carry all that kit up.

 

[CruzinCambridge]

CC, I have a GoPro 7 with native image stabilization and I like it. I think none of the earlier GoPros didn't have native image stabilization so I wouldn't recommend anything earlier than a 7 unless you have software to stabilize it. Make sure you either carry spare batteries, or plan plenty of stops to recharge it, but the battery life leaves a bit to be desired if you record in anything greater than 1080p. There is a Time Warp setting that speeds things up a bit that I like, but you gotta see beforehand which speed is appropriate for different segments of the race. Some long sections might be good at 10x, while shorter sections would be better at 5x or maybe even 2x. This video was done at 5x, and uploaded directly from my Gopro to my ocmputer and then to youtube without any editing.

Nice video. If I hear correctly what you're saying, my video is too long ;-).

I tried out having a GoPro mounted under my wahoo on my DF bike and the results were pretty good. I don't know what version it was. I should check that out and also do a dry run. The battery was the big frustration... and also it's not easy to do selfies... and getting video off the device is tedious... and the sound capture isn't great. But the jittery image as my phone camera keeps trying to decide between focusing on my knees and the view drives me nuts. And a wider angle on the selfie would be nice. With my setup with a dynamo/USB charger, I figure I can alternate charging my wahoo and the camera... especially when I won't need to charge my phone nearly as much if I'm not using it to film the ride.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Nice video. If I hear correctly what you're saying, my video is too long ;-).

I tried out having a GoPro mounted under my wahoo on my DF bike and the results were pretty good. I don't know what version it was. I should check that out and also do a dry run. The battery was the big frustration... and also it's not easy to do selfies... and getting video off the device is tedious... and the sound capture isn't great. But the jittery image as my phone camera keeps trying to decide between focusing on my knees and the view drives me nuts. And a wider angle on the selfie would be nice. With my setup with a dynamo/USB charger, I figure I can alternate charging my wahoo and the camera... especially when I won't need to charge my phone nearly as much if I'm not using it to film the ride.

Nah, not at all. I don't mind long videos at all lol. For super long rides though some viewers might skip over parts of it where not much happens. Phones are bulky, but these days the cameras on them are getting better. If we could just take 1 of those tiny cameras off the cellphones and use those. 1 option I use is to carry a 10,000mAh battery to recharge my electronics. You might consider a 360 camera. Some of those are nice.

 

[Derek]

Thanks a lot for your ideas.
I'm not sure i want to tinker that much to securely attach a sling bag to the bike. But these bags for camping chairs would have the advantage that I could fold them smaller when I put on the night clothes or used up all the food I took with me.
These tennis bags are a very exciting idea and probably very aero. however, i doubt that the position of the zipper and organizing the contents is practical.

if I had a Thor seat, I would probably have already bought the Radical Solo Aero. I am also very satisfied with the quality of my Banana Racer. At the Spezi 2 weeks ago I had a nice chat with one of the guys from Radical. He told me that someone had attached the Solo Racer in an unusual way on a Cruzbike. I still have to give him my mail, then he will send me a picture.

Mathew, your side bags more what I'm actually looking for. What size is your Revelate?
I have already found dozens models that could fit well.
Here is one nicely shaped from Geosmina:
View attachment 14808

And this one from Blackburn is expandable (but less aero?):
View attachment 14809
View attachment 14810

Both are available in sizes up to 5 liters.
With the one that I attach to the left side, I would have to remove the divider in order to access the main compartment from the left as well.
This would give me 10 liters + 2-3 liters of my current bags (saddlebag on the headrest, top tube bag in the triangle under the seat and a small one in front under the boom).
In numbers this is still less than a single side of my Banana Racer, but I made the experience, the more space you have, the more unnecessary things you drive arround.

By the way, here is a very extensive collection of bag manufacturers, not up-to-date anymore, but with information on whether you can also get customized bags: Cycling about

I don't like the banana racers because they protrude so far out from the sides of the cruzbike that it seems like they'd cause unnecessary drag. Since I already have a Scarab bag attached, I figure the solution you posted here would work well for me as they'd sit just behind the scarab bag - hopefully not causing much to any additional drag. So, I bought a cheap (Rock Bros off amazon) version. Each giving me 3L. The Rock Bros bag has zippers on both sides so i was able to orient them exactly symetrically opposite to eachother (w/ the caveat being the left sided bag needed to have the inside divider slit open the length of the zipper since the left sided pocket is tiny/unusuable. I thought this was a better solution than hanging the left one backwards - and so long as I don't store anything too heavy in the left bag, shouldn't be a structural issue.

Here's the link to the bag: https://www.amazon.com/ROCKBROS-Wat...bFvOuzrarVyuXAZN0zLD-WGV05_fhjwEaAqroEALw_wcB

and i've attached some photos.

 

[cpml123]

I don't like the banana racers because they protrude so far out from the sides of the cruzbike that it seems like they'd cause unnecessary drag. Since I already have a Scarab bag attached, I figure the solution you posted here would work well for me as they'd sit just behind the scarab bag - hopefully not causing much to any additional drag. So, I bought a cheap (Rock Bros off amazon) version. Each giving me 3L. The Rock Bros bag has zippers on both sides so i was able to orient them exactly symetrically opposite to eachother (w/ the caveat being the left sided bag needed to have the inside divider slit open the length of the zipper since the left sided pocket is tiny/unusuable. I thought this was a better solution than hanging the left one backwards - and so long as I don't store anything too heavy in the left bag, shouldn't be a structural issue.

Here's the link to the bag: https://www.amazon.com/ROCKBROS-Wat...bFvOuzrarVyuXAZN0zLD-WGV05_fhjwEaAqroEALw_wcB

and i've attached some photos.

Wow the V20 looks fast just sitting there!

 

[Beano]

Interesting comparing drag for the Scarab bag and aero/side pods. I'd have thought that the Scarab bag produces the most drag. The reason you have the cut away in the frame behind the front wheel is to minimise the turbulent air coming off of the front wheel - that gap you want as tight as possible. Much the same way that you have the seat tube on a Cannondale SystemSix follow the rear wheel. And this bike is regarded as one of the best aero DF bikes on the market that is not a TT bike.

For sure I'd agree that the aero/side bags are bulkier but for me they sit behind the rider in the wake of the riders chest/shoulders. Whilst the Scarab sits just behind the frame cut away where the front wheel meets the frame.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Looks like you have quite a bit of storage space now with an acceptable amount of drag for credit card or light touring. The other day I found waterproof Vaude frame bags in 3L and 4.5L that look like they will do the job.