Paris-Brest-Paris 2023?

[CruzinCambridge]

J'ai arrive! I packed up the bike the Weds before last and put it on a plane Friday. I wound up packing my Thor seat separately and bought an LL Bean 90l duffle that would fit it and all my gear. I wrapped the seat in two layers of bubble wrap. Even with most of the gear taken out, the bag was overweight. I might be within range if I put my shoes and tools in the dufffle.

I ordered an extra large taxi, but it wasn't big enough for the bike and the family. On the way back I know to get a regular minivan and a second car. Pro tip for storing luggage... I had a reservation for the Marriot near the Gare Montparnasse. They check bags for reserved guests... no problem if you leave two enoous bags for a week. Then, our AirBNB which had only been available starting Sat said they could do Fri... so I canceled the reservation and bought the desk clerk a bag of caramels... which she loved.

Back across Paris, brought the box up and down in the elevator as pictued, assembled the bike in the entryway to the courtyard and it seems to work. The front wheel was flat, but I think that was just because I replaced the tire before I came and the sealant around the valve wasn't really well in place. I've only been able to do a quick ride around the block as I had to run to Rambouillet to register. Tomorrow a shakeout ride around Paris and then onto the train back to Rambouillet. I would have liked to do the shakeout today while the bike stores are open, but I figure I can do it tomorrow morning and then queue up for a mechanic at the start if things are really screwed up.

Note... it shipped fine w the front fender on. It's going to be sunny and hot, but I don't think I have the time to take it off... plus it seems like it's doing its job warding off the rain spirits.

 

[LarryOz]

Great update - can't wait for the ride report!

 

[ChaleJake]

Have a great time. Fantastic job getting there!

 

[Andreas]

Some first impressions


Here two Cruz bikes and my VTX


And here @CruzinCambridge

 

[CruzinCambridge]

Ride Report:

Let me start by saying this was a fantastic experience and the most amazing ride I’ve ever done. It was maddeningly challenging, breathtakingly beautiful, I met great people who I think I helped and who certainly helped me. I didn’t complete PBP, but it was my longest ride, in distance and hours. It was my first time riding straight through the night. I posted a pretty good time for a 700K – 44:30. I remember the day of and the day after abandoning, feeling certain that I made the right decision. Of course, two, three days later, I wonder whether I should have persevered. I could have rested a few hours and made it another 100K or 200K, with some certainty. Would I have been able to finish? Maybe. Would I have been in an accident? Maybe. Would I sustain permanent injuries or need corrective surgery? A solid maybe. The last two hours of the ride I was struggling to keep the bike straight going uphill. I had a couple of close calls. I came close to knocking a passing rider into oncoming traffic. The bottom line is that I didn’t feel safe and I’m comfortable with that call.

Highlights of the ride:

• Hammering the first 100K. Riding through the Auvergne with the group F irregulars and then hammering with the fast pack from group G who started 15 minutes behind was fantastic. Beautiful riding and feeling great (even if, at the time, I knew it wasn’t wise).
• Riding with @Andreas on his trike between Tintineac and Loudeac. We met online and started together, but had a hard time riding together since I wanted to take advantage of drafting and he, being so low, didn’t. After leapfrogging each other for 16 hours, this was the four hour stretch where I learned to let go of my racing instincts to draft and to instead conserve mental energy by splitting the load of pacing, fueling and resting. (Thanks again, @Andreas)
• Riding with the Association Francaise Velocoucher from Saint Nicolas Du Pelem to Carhaix. Andreas introduced me to Nicolas and Thomas earlier in the ride and then we rode together coming into Nicholas de Pelhem. A great group with lots of experience and energy.
• Riding with NER Jacob from Carhaix. After some down times the night before, I woke up from my shower and sleep in Carhaix (which was maybe its own highlight) and saw on the tracker that my New England Randonneur teammates, Jacob and Zach, who had started 3 hours behind had just checked into the control. I let them know I was coming from the dormitory and to look for me in the café if they wanted to ride together. Jacob waited at least an extra 10 minutes for me and then we rode the hilliest section together including the Roch de Trevezel. We left at 2:00AM and got into Brest at 7:00AM… which was amazing time.
• The Roch de Trevelzel. This is the highest point in the ride – a col with a radio tower that broadcasts across the atlantic. To give you a sense of how brutal the course was, we climbed up at least 8 miles and 2,000 feet and we got to the top and saw the radio tower in the distance and said “shit… we have to go down and then go up that,” not realizing we had just done it and the tower just looked far in the dark. There were so many impossible climbs, the longest climb didn’t seem remarkable in the least.
• Average French supermarket vegetable soup in a box. It tastes like onions and carrots and maybe there’s potato in there as well… and it’s creamy and salty and hot and frantastic. The control food was about as satisfying as most middle school cafeterias, but this was a gift. I had a bowl in Tintineac, in Carhaix and at the Creperie in Sizun. I could live on this.
• The creperie in Sizun. I had seen the creperie owner post on fb that he would be open all night and told Jacob at some point we would stop at Sizun… I couldn’t remember if it was just before or after the Roch. We came down an epic descent, we’re frozen, and then there’s a town and a dozen randonneurs huddled around cups of coffee and soup as an addled chef and his friend made food as fast as they could at something like 4 or 5:00AM. It was my first real food outside a control and it was just what they talk about in the blogs.

Lowlights of the ride:

• Day 2 Dehydration. Between the heat and burning too many matches on day one and a hydration/carb mix that was a little too rich, I gradually dehydrated myself. By Monday AM at Villaines La Juhel, I had trouble eating a cafeteria croissant without soaking it in coffee. By Monday afternoon, I couldn’t eat solid food. Big mistake. I was able to use gels and my mix and water and bars and never bonked though. Finally on Tuesday night I lowered my mix to mostly water and guzzled 3 liters over 2 hours and got back to normal.
• The descent of the Roch. It went on forever. I started getting cold and stiff and nodding off. I’m breaking so I can keep Jacob who’s on a DF on my wheel and I’m getting worried I’m going to wear out my brake pads. The worst part about PBP was that you stop enjoying descents – you’re so sleep deprived, you get nervous you’re going to nod off on the descents and you start realizing that every descent means an ascent and you just want them to end.
• Brest back to Carhaix, This was when I hit a wall. Jacob and I rode together but we also separated because he needed to nap. I hit a wall and got discouraged. My pace dropped to like 8-9mph average over the second half of this leg. After mostly riding at 14-15mph moving average to this point (after the first 100 miles when it was more like 17) this was dispiriting. I was in my lowest gear on each and every hill. At one point I thought my derailleur was broken and wouldn’t go into the lowest two gears… since we were coming into a hill from a flat… only to realize I was already in my lowest gear on the false flat. It took me 5 hours to go 80km from Carhaix to Brest… and 7 hours to go back to Carhaix. I spent most of this time doing rando-math – if I rest and can get back to 10mph, then with 45 hours left to do 350 miles I can just make it if I rest for 5 hours over the next 45… but then, if I drop down to 8 or 9mph… This was warned against and I knew what I was supposed to do… just eat, rest, and then keep going. I had been through some iteration of this twice before on the ride, but I wasn’t prepared for being in this much darker of a place.

 

[CruzinCambridge]

What I learned:

• You can’t outsmart PBP. I had a plan to beat the ride. I was going to take all the advice and minimize my time at controls by fueling on the bike. I was going to get real rest at a hotel on the course instead of flopping about in a cot not sleeping or shivering by the side of the road. I was going to beat Schermer’s neck and back and saddle pain by riding a recumbent. Having a strategy is good… testing it is better… holding onto it when shit happens is bad. You’re going to have to expect the unexpected and endure.
• Swallow your pride. PBP is pretty glamorous as randoneuring goes, but the essence of randonneuring is eating a Cumberland farms burrito in the sliver of shade provided by a steaming dumpster. At PBP you need to be prepared to sleep in salt crusted skins in the dirt by the side of the highway. You need to be prepared to be in your lowest gear for hours.
• Find a friend. Mental energy is just as important as physical energy over 300K. Riding in a group was a great help. It was hard when as a recumbent rider I was trying to stay with diamond frame riders who climb more easily and descend more sluggishly. It was hard when I wanted to catch on to a 17mph train, knowing it would feel like 15mph … but my riding partners weren’t game. Partnership is key.
• Dial in your setup. Through my qualifiers it took me a while to dial in my ergonomics. On the 300 in 2022 I experienced knee pain. I overadjusted and on the 200K I strained my hip flexor. I was really happy with my ergonomics. This said, I didn’t do enough playing around to address my hand/grip issues. I've got some major tendinitis/trigger finger from gripping bars vs. leaning on hands. It's pretty painful and may require surgery. I doubled up tape, but I should consider new bars or even larger bar ends. I had never experienced hot spots on my feet before, but now that I have… I have to work on that. The middle three toes on my right foot still don't have feeling.
• Test your clothing. I had tested my cold and wet weather clothes earlier in the season. At the start, I wore the New England Randonneur jersey I’d only worn once and on a shorter ride. It was designed to be long to accommodate a range of body size… but as a recumbent rider it bunched up under the small of my back. I got a bruise under the small of my back that’s still visible nearly a week later.
• Hope is not a strategy. I trained for my qualifiers but I then didn’t train for the 1,200. At the end of the 600 I felt like I could have kept going… but I had never ridden more than 600. My idea was “we’ll see.” I didn’t really have much choice, but I know understand, if I’m going to attempt again, I need to try to ride a 1,000km brevet at least. After qualifying I spent July pivoting back to family life, which was the right call for me, but to feel confident on the ride, I could have rested a week or two and then gotten a real 5 week training block instead of training to maintain my form. There were a number of times on the ride where I thought to mself “oh… you didn’t prepare for this.”
• Burn the boats. Having family in town and trying to think about where to meet them and having plans with them for after the ride was a factor. I might have been more dedicated to sticking it out if my alternative to riding on was sitting alone in a hotel in Rambouillet until Sunday.
• Take advantage of controls. I was super focused on control discipline… but there’s a difference between wasting time at a control and using time to hydrate, fuel, rest and strategize. There were some lines, but I never wasted time. I might have spent too much mental energy on control discipline relative to the time I saved.
• Scavange. I had planned to rely mostly on my own food on the way out, so the limitation of options at the controls wasn’t a big limiting factor. One of the New England Randonneurs had scouted the route pretty extensively on Google and had a sense of where you can resupply and eat real food. I real food stop that re-energizes could have been a real morale boost. I feel like this is an area where veterans have an advantage.
• Be ready for a punch in the mouth. I only made a plan A and figured I would wing it from there. I didn’t want to think too much about scenarios that weren’t on my plan. But having a plan B and a plan C and knowing what you can wear and what you can eat if your plan A goes belly-up and you’re in a different place without access to the drop bag and stuff you thought you’d have would have been a good idea.

Will I do it again and other remaining questions:

• Am I cut out for Grand Randonees? One thing I like about group rides is the camaraderie and competition that pushes the group forward. Pushing beyond your limit to catch a group, gaining a faster pace by riding in the draft… and pushing yourself to be able to do your part for the group are all things I love. Randonneuring, at this level, rewards not pushing yourself. If you have to burn a single match in 30 seconds to catch the back of a group and gain 20% in speed or 20% in reduced effort… it’s not worth it… because you’re not going to have enough matches. There are not enough matches in the world for 1,200K. I kept my zone 4 heart rate work to 7%... but that’s still 2:30 hours. That’s a lot of intervals. Do I really want to ride 40 hours at 10 miles an hour? Maybe I should be comfortable that what I like to do is grand fondo / credit card touring where I can ride 150 miles a day but eat in a restaurant and sleep in a bed before doing it again.
• Is it even possible on a Cruzbike. Tor and others have proved that it is… I have to see if Andy and Jim from NJ finished. I’m still not able to feel as confident handling a Cruzbike… and I’m close to 3,000 miles in. I can’t ride without hands, or take off arm warmers or give high fives while riding.. I had issues keeping the bike straight uphill on the 200 when my lowest gear was 38-32… and then also still on the 300 and 400 when my lowest gear was a 38-36… but those were steep rides. I now have a 44-50 and PBP was less steep. Do I need more strengthDoes it ever come? The longest ride I’ve done on a DF bike was 200K. Would I be able to do a 400K or 600K on a DF bike? Can I do enough PT to make that happen?

What’s next?

Better to get back on the horse than sit and stew. On the taxi back from the airport I saw there’s a 300K scheduled for Maine for mid September. Should be beautiful. Hopefully I can find something for my wife to do so she won’t divorce me… but that would leave more room for training.

My video blog of the ride:

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

 

[LarryOz]

Ride Report:

Let me start by saying this was a fantastic experience and the most amazing ride I’ve ever done. It was maddeningly challenging, breathtakingly beautiful, I met great people who I think I helped and who certainly helped me. I didn’t complete PBP, but it was my longest ride, in distance and hours. It was my first time riding straight through the night. I posted a pretty good time for a 700K – 44:30. I remember the day of and the day after abandoning, feeling certain that I made the right decision. Of course, two, three days later, I wonder whether I should have persevered. I could have rested a few hours and made it another 100K or 200K, with some certainty. Would I have been able to finish? Maybe. Would I have been in an accident? Maybe. Would I sustain permanent injuries or need corrective surgery? A solid maybe. The last two hours of the ride I was struggling to keep the bike straight going uphill. I had a couple of close calls. I came close to knocking a passing rider into oncoming traffic. The bottom line is that I didn’t feel safe and I’m comfortable with that call.

Fantastic ride and report - thanks for all the info

 

[Derek]

Thanks for the great write up John! Couple thoughts:
1. You lost me at “at some point you stop enjoying the descents”
2. I think it all comes down to training. At 2,800 miles logged this year on Strava, it was bound to be a slog. I’ve done over 7,000 miles so far this year, and I’m not sure it was enough for the ride I was originally attempting to have. Like you, I’m also not sure if I’m cut out for Grand Rondinees but it’s because of the amount of training hours in the saddle it requires. I have a busy life and I’ve viewed this as a singular point-in-time goal, maybe I’ll stick with it, maybe I won’t. But if you want it, more mileage is required.
3. I also put together a write-up and tho much more a layman’s narrative than a detailed for-us-by-us account like you so eloquently penned, thought I’d share it in case you or anyone following this thread was interested: https://medium.com/@derekminner/pbp-2023-failure-set-me-free-1e082ae48416

I hope to see you out on a (shorter) brevet sometime soon.

 

[DavidCH]

@Derek "They all made the connection that this person must be disabled"

That's just your interpretation. In fact they are to support the valiant to give them encouragement. ... and you know that.

I think it's amazing that you travelled half way around the world and trained to do this.

You are valiant

 

[Mathew Fy]

Thanks for the great write up John! Couple thoughts:
1. You lost me at “at some point you stop enjoying the descents”
2. I think it all comes down to training. At 2,800 miles logged this year on Strava, it was bound to be a slog. I’ve done over 7,000 miles so far this year, and I’m not sure it was enough for the ride I was originally attempting to have. Like you, I’m also not sure if I’m cut out for Grand Rondinees but it’s because of the amount of training hours in the saddle it requires. I have a busy life and I’ve viewed this as a singular point-in-time goal, maybe I’ll stick with it, maybe I won’t. But if you want it, more mileage is required.
3. I also put together a write-up and tho much more a layman’s narrative than a detailed for-us-by-us account like you so eloquently penned, thought I’d share it in case you or anyone following this thread was interested: https://medium.com/@derekminner/pbp-2023-failure-set-me-free-1e082ae48416

I hope to see you out on a (shorter) brevet sometime soon.

Awesome. As you wrote: ‘This person is to be celebrated profusely.”

 

[DavidCH]

Unfortunately , pain can be exhausting to say the least. I remember reading @Tor Hovland approach to PBP. He paced it until the end but one stop and then went max. I find that if I am horizontal I don't digest food like I am on a road bike... unfortunately everything comes into play with such an endurance event as this.

 

[Derek]

@DavidCH - i am absolutely interpreting for the broader group. You're 100% right. Partially for comedic effect. The French people were just awesome.

 

[CruzinCambridge]

Thanks for the great write up John! Couple thoughts:
1. You lost me at “at some point you stop enjoying the descents”
2. I think it all comes down to training. At 2,800 miles logged this year on Strava, it was bound to be a slog. I’ve done over 7,000 miles so far this year, and I’m not sure it was enough for the ride I was originally attempting to have. Like you, I’m also not sure if I’m cut out for Grand Rondinees but it’s because of the amount of training hours in the saddle it requires. I have a busy life and I’ve viewed this as a singular point-in-time goal, maybe I’ll stick with it, maybe I won’t. But if you want it, more mileage is required.
3. I also put together a write-up and tho much more a layman’s narrative than a detailed for-us-by-us account like you so eloquently penned, thought I’d share it in case you or anyone following this thread was interested: https://medium.com/@derekminner/pbp-2023-failure-set-me-free-1e082ae48416

I hope to see you out on a (shorter) brevet sometime soon.

Likewise... great write-up and great ride. It sounds like you had the full experience - the Charlie Miller, the race out crepes and coffee back, and the Adrian Hands. I should write down something that's more a narrative and tells the fun and painful stories before I forget. I was tracking you on the ride... and when I saw you were struggling going into Weds, it was like a gut punch. If he's off his pace, what chance did I have?

I'll note that I did have another 1,000 miles on the trainer that doesn't show up on Strava... and I felt like a hero doing 4-6 hour rides in the basement in February... but that still puts me at 3,800... which is barely enough. I think some of the NER members would describe themselves as undertrained, but they had many more years of randonneuring experience and an Adrian Hands plan... which is a lower risk plan than "go the same pace you did for 600k and hope it works out."

Will consider putting a NJR ride on my calendar next year... likely not NYMNY though.

 

[Tor Hovland]

Fantastic reports by the both of you! I thoroughly enjoyed reading them. My own account is on Strava, but as it is as entertaining as a medical report, I'll just sum it up quickly here: my Vendetta was faster.

@DavidCH I wasn't exactly saving myself until the final stage in 2019, it's just that I kept feeling better throughout the ride. Halfway to Brest, after the first sunrise, I was feeling invigorated. After a sleep stop in Brest I thought I should try to catch some of my Norwegian friends who were all mostly treating this as a race. So the return trip was much more efficient. And halfway through the penultimate stage, right after a power nap, I felt fantastic, which is why I set the 51st fastest time (per Strava) on the final stage. This year, that short 42 km was literally night and day different. I recognised almost none of it, and I was close to falling asleep.

 

[cranky cyclist]

I admire you all for even participating in an event like this. It is hard enough for me to do a century. So you have my kudos!

 

[cpml123]

Thanks for the great write up John! Couple thoughts:
1. You lost me at “at some point you stop enjoying the descents”
2. I think it all comes down to training. At 2,800 miles logged this year on Strava, it was bound to be a slog. I’ve done over 7,000 miles so far this year, and I’m not sure it was enough for the ride I was originally attempting to have. Like you, I’m also not sure if I’m cut out for Grand Rondinees but it’s because of the amount of training hours in the saddle it requires. I have a busy life and I’ve viewed this as a singular point-in-time goal, maybe I’ll stick with it, maybe I won’t. But if you want it, more mileage is required.
3. I also put together a write-up and tho much more a layman’s narrative than a detailed for-us-by-us account like you so eloquently penned, thought I’d share it in case you or anyone following this thread was interested: https://medium.com/@derekminner/pbp-2023-failure-set-me-free-1e082ae48416

I hope to see you out on a (shorter) brevet sometime soonreally good story trekking

Really awesome story telling!

 

[ed72]

Congrats to both for completing PBP, it isn't easy on any bike and personally, I find it more challenging on a bent or certainly frustrating dealing with uprights on hilly and rolling terrain.

Sorry to hear you did not do Charly time, Derek. But happy to hear you regrouped and had a good time although not as good of a time as you would have liked. Doing Charly Miller time is hard, basically you have to ride 760 miles with around 40,000 feet of climbing in 48 hours moving time. And, you are in no man's land. The really fast riders are in a group up ahead and you are solo. It takes a lot of concentration. When you get to a control or at least in my experience, with the bent, everyone wants to fondle it and talk and you just want to roll. Anyway, congrats

 

[Andreas]

Those are great reports, @CruzinCambridge and @Derek.
I won't even attempt to create my own report since it wouldn't match up to yours.
So, here are just a few notes from my side.

The excitement might not be as high as my first participation, but the party along the entire route and the enthusiasm and support of the local people touch me once again. Just for that reason, I'll probably participate again in 4 years.

I rode with the VTX again, which made me feel very confident to finish in time. I tried to approach it like I did in 2019 when, after a long sleep break in Brest, I felt full of energy and could storm up Roc Trevelzel. This time was a bit different, probably because the new route around Brest was much hillier. It wasn't until another sleep break in Tintentiac that I felt much fitter again, and from there, things rolled very smoothly.

I know it was the right decision for me to go with the VTX this time. With the Vendetta, I still lack practice with longer or many climbs and would have struggled. Now I have 4 years to become a climbing goat on the Vendetta.

Even though it was very hot, we were very lucky with the weather, and every sunrise and sunset was a fascinating experience.

However, the most beautiful kilometers were the ones I rode together with John. Later, two more French recumbent riders joined us.

At the start, I got to know James on his T50, and on the way, I repeatedly came across Andrew with his vibrant orange S40. I also caught a brief glimpse of @Robertas on his stylish V20.
I just managed to catch Derek at the finish line as he arrived about an hour after me (despite starting 12 hours later).

Unfortunately, I missed the chance to see the Manga-V20.
I would have also liked to shake hands with @Tor Hovland , as his PBP-2019 video is responsible for me having a Vendetta now.

I would be happy to see some of you again in 4 years.

 

[Derek]

Congrats to both for completing PBP, it isn't easy on any bike and personally, I find it more challenging on a bent or certainly frustrating dealing with uprights on hilly and rolling terrain.

Sorry to hear you did not do Charly time, Derek. But happy to hear you regrouped and had a good time although not as good of a time as you would have liked. Doing Charly Miller time is hard, basically you have to ride 760 miles with around 40,000 feet of climbing in 48 hours moving time. And, you are in no man's land. The really fast riders are in a group up ahead and you are solo. It takes a lot of concentration. When you get to a control or at least in my experience, with the bent, everyone wants to fondle it and talk and you just want to roll. Anyway, congrats

@ed72 I’ve been thinking about this, and I wonder if a bent attempting a CM time would be better served by setting off with the 90 hour specialty group instead of the 84? Seems counterintuitive at first, but they set off right after the 80 hour group, and if one made good time, they could catch some of the slower 80 groups to draft. It would essentially cut out the no man’s land problem.

 

[CruzinCambridge]

@Derek - Andreas and I started off with Group F at a reasonable 25-30kph and then at about mile 25/40K we caught (more my idea but Andreas followed along) the lead group off the front of Group G (I had a team-mate in the group too). The Group G riders were 50/50 racers and strong triatheletes... which is to say the pace was 30-35kph and it was frustrating at times with a lot of gaps and dropped wheels which made the effort harder than it should have been. Eventually I fell off on a hill and found the slower/steadier from Group E that we must have passed. There was a pretty tight group of aging French chatting two by two and a group of Italians. The Italians didn't appreciate having me on their wheel and let me know it by three in a row blowing snot rockets as they came to the back of the paceline. This is to say, after Group A/B, you're going to be dealing with a lot of randonneurs of widely ranging ability and sociability. I'd say you'd be better off reaching out to some like-minded Yanks in the group E reg and seeing if they'd be open to riding together if you can catch them by Mortagne.