Robert's V20 build

[Robert Holler]

The star nut needs to be pushed further down into the fork. I just got it in with a longer bolt (tapping on the head and keeping the nut as straight as possible) until the blade would clear, and then once the steerer was cut I used the setting tool to get it set the proper depth from the newly cut top.

 

[hamishbarker]

I am running the 25mm Panaracers. Nice and grippy. I have been thinking of trying the 26mm IRC Aspites as they get high marks. The cassette is a SRAM converted with the OneUp 40T & 16T conversion. Really the 40T is overkill but I simply swapped my drivetrain as it has all been wearing together so...

The V1 frame - while retired - will indeed live on as wall art at the shop:

View attachment 1639

since the v1 frame is totally stripped, do you know how much it weighs? I'm thinking of a long term project of reproducing my v1.5 frame in carbon and wonder what the possible reductions are (without going through the pain of stripping down my frame including removing crankset).

 

[Robert Holler]

Here is my take on the CF issue:

In my experience talking to some different carbon manufacturers, reproducing a V frame in CF will result in a heavier bike overall, that would be more fragile, and have a harsher ride. My V1 has the original welded seat on it and is around 5 lbs or so. The current V20 frame - which is very very close to the older version minus the welded seat - is 3.7 lbs.

I highly doubt that the V20 can be reproduced to be a 3.7 lb CF frame that would hold any weight.

 

[ratz]

Here is my take on the CF issue:

In my experience talking to some different carbon manufacturers, reproducing a V frame in CF will result in a heavier bike overall, that would be more fragile, and have a harsher ride. My V1 has the original welded seat on it and is around 5 lbs or so. The current V20 frame - which is very very close to the older version minus the welded seat - is 3.7 lbs.

I highly doubt that the V20 can be reproduced to be a 3.7 lb CF frame that would hold any weight.

Long wheel base = heavier bike in carbon, or some super expensive weave patten.

Strong, Light, Affordable..... Pick two

 

[MrSteve]

Carbon fiber would be comparable to the alu. bike's weight and it would ride smoother.
I was about to buy my carbon fiber and resin, to build my dream bike, when the used yellow
Vendetta-of-my-dreams showed up. It cost as much complete as just the materials needed to build my C.F. frame!
Unidirectional fibers are stronger than woven fiber, by the way.
Anyway, I'm happy and no longer long to put in the hours of labor needed to build my own C.F. bike.
The stock V is THAT good.

But don't let this stop you!
Build one!

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

Long wheel base = heavier bike in carbon, or some super expensive weave patten.

Strong, Light, Affordable..... Pick two

I'll take strong and light please. My kids don't expect an inheritance anyway.

 

[Apollo]

Here is my take on the CF issue:

In my experience talking to some different carbon manufacturers, reproducing a V frame in CF will result in a heavier bike overall, that would be more fragile, and have a harsher ride. My V1 has the original welded seat on it and is around 5 lbs or so. The current V20 frame - which is very very close to the older version minus the welded seat - is 3.7 lbs.

I highly doubt that the V20 can be reproduced to be a 3.7 lb CF frame that would hold any weight.

I'm inclined to agree and become disenchanted with CF overall the past few years. Any way you look at it, CF is a more delicate material and it requires more care. You have to pay a lot of attention not to get nicks or scratches and be extra diligent whenever tightening bolts. And there's the weight issue that you mentioned. At my weight of over 210lbs and the terrible roads here, this becomes a major concern that I wouldn't have to deal with any kind of metal frame. If modding somewhere on the frame is required, drilling new holes is generally not recommended. I wouldn't mind a V1.5 aluminum seat pan for my V whenever I get one just for that reason. I don't care about bike weight anywhere near as much as my own body weight.

I've also heard many stories of relatively short CF frame lifespans compared to steel or aluminum. CF seems to be a good material for DFs but there are still all those extra caveats I could do without. Maybe I'm just an old timer.

 

[Charles.Plager]

My V1 has the original welded seat on it and is around 5 lbs or so. The current V20 frame - which is very very close to the older version minus the welded seat - is 3.7 lbs.

I highly doubt that the V20 can be reproduced to be a 3.7 lb CF frame that would hold any weight.

At 3.7 lbs, the motivation for a lighter frame is clearly small (as it can only save, at most 3.7 lbs. ).

But well designed carbon frames are both lighter and stronger than aluminum (and I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be the case here).

Carbon frames fail. So do aluminum frames. And steel ones, too.

So is there large motivation for duplicating a V in carbon for weight saving? No, not really. Could a carbon V be made well. Yes, absolutely.

 

[Zzzorse]

Where on the V is there weight to be saved?

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

One material that has future potential is magnesium. Bikes have been made of it for decades. There are still companies that make bike frames from it. It seems to be a better option than titanium, aluminum, or carbon fiber. A lot of the disadvantages talked about are fallacious. It is still cutting edge, similar to the recumbent design: it's been around a long time, has great benefits, but is not widely accepted yet. It's light and strong. Now that would make a great Vendetta frame.

 

[Robert Holler]

The cost to get into a frame design in CF is astronomically high. Then you are vested and if it is a bust you are screwed. Not worth it (my opinion) when you can use other materials that are easier to experiment with. Personally I would not ride a CF frame. Its one thing to do a CF stick, another to do something with a lot of shape. The ones that do exist are not mass marketable, few and far between, and the ones I have seen are fragile.

 

[DavidCH]

The V is timeless. I guess the only difference for next year's model will be the paint job?

In twenty years time it will probably be designed in a Graphene composite that grows like putting chrome on in an electrical way. Graphene is way stronger than carbon.

I have an aluminium trek, its taken an awful lot of punishment. Its alignment is still true as always and always a pleasure to ride but the V is twice as fast. I ride one with the Mrs and the other when I want to go fast

 

[Apollo]

One material that has future potential is magnesium. Bikes have been made of it for decades. There are still companies that make bike frames from it. It seems to be a better option than titanium, aluminum, or carbon fiber. A lot of the disadvantages talked about are fallacious. It is still cutting edge, similar to the recumbent design: it's been around a long time, has great benefits, but is not widely accepted yet. It's light and strong. Now that would make a great Vendetta frame.

I've been wanting a magnesium frame for ages. It must be a very expensive material to work with otherwise there would have been market penetration by now. The only downside for the owner I can think of is the possibility of corrosion but it's the same with steel and nothing that a good paint job can't prevent. I think it would be a great material for a recumbent to reduce weight. Has anyone ever made a magnesium recumbent frame?

 

[Robert O]

I've been wanting a magnesium frame for ages. It must be a very expensive material to work with otherwise there would have been market penetration by now. The only downside for the owner I can think of is the possibility of corrosion but it's the same with steel and nothing that a good paint job can't prevent. I think it would be a great material for a recumbent to reduce weight. Has anyone ever made a magnesium recumbent frame?

Precious few magnesium frames of any sort. Years back, someone built a kind of cruciform framed magnesium road bike, don't know if it ever actually sold.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

http://paketabike.com/

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

http://zinncycles.com/Zinn/index.php/archives/1366

http://velonews.competitor.com/2009...-road-frame-our-web-editors-ever-ridden_89199

 

[ReklinedRider]

For this build I changed to straight SRAM brake levers and SRAM bar end shifters.

View attachment 1637

Robert, unless you did the ratz hack to run your shifter cables inside the bars it looks like the shift housings run up the leading edge of your drops. If they do, do you notice the housing under your hands when you pull on the bars for uphill etc? Which way did you route them around your brakes? Any pics before you taped?
Also, it looks like your FD cable/housing runs down the left side of the slider and boom. Will it work ok to run it down the right?
Just curious about the details. Coz that's where the devil is, yeah? Want to head him off if possible!

km

 

[Robert Holler]

I really do not notice the cable housings there - but it did take a bit getting used to. I am still getting used to the bar ends and am not 100% sold on them over the double taps. The FD housing does run down the left, but the middle would work just fine as well.

Robert

 

[ReklinedRider]

I really do not notice the cable housings there - but it did take a bit getting used to. I am still getting used to the bar ends and am not 100% sold on them over the double taps. The FD housing does run down the left, but the middle would work just fine as well.

Robert

Yeah, not sure I could get used to bar ends in that position either, where you have to shift with 4th & 5th fingers and the heel of your hand. Am completely sold on them for a bullhorn-like setup (below). R2C's are the bomb for this.

I have them mounted so the cables run down the trailing side of the bars, which does mean they're on backwards, plus I switched them right for left and vv, which takes maybe twice around the block to get used to, then it becomes second nature. It also has the salutory effect of making it very comfortable to actually ride along with thumbs looped over the bar ends holding the bodies with your hands.

Also ran a piece of bar tape split lengthwise along side the cables (on the Sofrider, V not complete yet) in the drop section which makes the cables imperceptible when applying pressure with your hands. No cable then on the front of the bars to possibly feel when pulling to go uphill etc. Interesting that you don't notice that; I did even with extra bar tape which is why I moved the cables round back.
If using brifters on this setup no cable runs in front nor in bavk of the bars in the drops.

All in all, there's no end to personalizing these bikes!

 

[Abbott Smith]

Yeah, not sure I could get used to bar ends in that position either, where you have to shift with 4th & 5th fingers and the heel of your hand. Am completely sold on them for a bullhorn-like setup (below). R2C's are the bomb for this.

I have them mounted so the cables run down the trailing side of the bars, which does mean they're on backwards, plus I switched them right for left and vv, which takes maybe twice around the block to get used to, then it becomes second nature. It also has the salutory effect of making it very comfortable to actually ride along with thumbs looped over the bar ends holding the bodies with your hands.

Also ran a piece of bar tape split lengthwise along side the cables (on the Sofrider, V not complete yet) in the drop section which makes the cables imperceptible when applying pressure with your hands. No cable then on the front of the bars to possibly feel when pulling to go uphill etc. Interesting that you don't notice that; I did even with extra bar tape which is why I moved the cables round back.
If using brifters on this setup no cable runs in front nor in bavk of the bars in the drops.

All in all, there's no end to personalizing these bikes!

View attachment 1800 View attachment 1801

Really curious about how your bullhorn set up works Reklined. After a season riding SigrD, the one thing that bugs me is that my hands want to slide off the drops. Find myself over gripping the handles and wasting energy without realizing it. I've thought about a variety of fixes from using bar end mirrors to combining road and mountain bike bars so I can attach mountain bike paddle grips with end hooks.

But your set up seems to solve the problem. I'm not familiar with the bar end shifters though they remind me of old school down tube friction shifters. How do they work? Did you swap the left and right cabling so the left now controls your rear derailleur? How do you run the cables? Where do you put the mirrors and what mirrors do you use? What handlebars do you use and what makes a good set of bars for a bullhorn setup? I think that's the right term. I'm really intrigued but know nothing about these and want to understand.

Thanks.
Abbott