The Road to 500 miles in 24hrs

[ratz]

I think part of it might have to do with a more "easy" pedaling along with just light force on the pedals and a nice straight road. That is when I have been most successful when trying it.

Big gears help; oddly I can ride non-stop no handed pulling the trailer on the quest. Without the Drag of the trailer it's a much short 100 yards or so.

 

[jond]

This weekends 24hr mtb race will be the first time riding the mtb since I started ride the V 3 weeks ago. I was told to focus on mastering the V and that's all I've been doing so I hope I don't get any surprises 12hr into my race. Opposed to your opinion I feel the V with it's one position focuses on one group of muscles vs any other bike that has 2 riding positions and thus alloy you to draw from two slightly different sets of muscles. It's because of the two vs one riding position that I believe faster recovery of the legs can be achieved with a DF bike vs a recumbent, more true for mtb vs road due to aero and speed factors though.

I'm only 600 miles into my trial and as expected nowhere near ready to to take both hands off but I've tried several times to no avail.

without doubt i think your heart rate will be up from normal on the mountain bike now that your heart will have to work against gravity. typically i see an increase in 10bpm for a couple of weeks before it settles back to prior performance. good luck with the 24hr mtn bike race. talking about pedal styles i guess everyone is a different engine . i find by altering my position inching forwards backwards and/or employing my upper body and/or employing more on the upstroke from time to time i can change out the pedal style and alter muscle groups more than i can on the DF ( despite the obvious advantages of being able to stand). in this way i feel i can recover whilst riding to wattage. i personally feel i can get more variance on the v. i understand where you are coming from though as it took a long time for me develop nuanced styles and i was of the same opinion as yourself missing the standing advantage and position of the DF. yet another variation exists for me by swinging the boom with my upper body and my legs feel like they are doing nothing yet wattage stays same or increases. it is strange but to me the v is closer to the DF than my other recumbents in terms of feel and change over. this is all still coming together for me. let us know how you fair in the 24hr and any changes you experienced returning to the platform.

 

[RojoRacing]

Well with another 24hr race in the books I have regained some of my confidence. I'm already back at the daily grind as of 5am but I'll try and write up a report later if I have the time but here's the short version.

1st place solo overall with an early finish of only 21hrs to preserve the body for the next two big races. I started faster then I'd have liked but course was so fun I found myself caught in the moment racing with guy going out hard for their one lap for their relay teams. I finish the first lap in second place overall with the next solo rider nowhere in sight. Heat was a major factor early on and made everyone adjust their hydration plans and ease up on the pace, I suffered no cramping but I saw many who did. Up till sunset 2nd place was only 15-20 mins behind me but once darkness sets in you enter my territory and my advantage became clear with me quickly extending my lead and lapping 2nd place on a 1hr course. I suffered from sleepiness again but with a few minor adjustments I was able to combats it much better this time around. Sadly two of the most effective methods I use for this can't be used on a recumbent or the world TT race so I'm going to have to find a plan C. I didn't have an crew for support but kept my pit stops short and smooth throughout the night and lapped 2nd place for a second time around 6am or the 19th hour. Instead I just leaving him behind and extending my lead I chose to ride the whole lap with him and chat it up since this race was our first meeting and I was still suffering from some sleepiness. The conversation really brought me back to life so with a 2 lap lead I only needed one more lap to clinch the solo victory. I took a longer 5-10 min pit stop to strip off all my lights and make sure everything was in order before heading out for my last lap because I was going to see how much I had left in the tank by going all out. My last lap was my fastest lap of the race by over a min and the 3rd fastest lap recoeded of the race for solo or teams which was a pretty cool thing after 190 miles and 27,000' on the legs.

Today I'm feeling quite good with only a small sense of lack of sleep but like normal my legs feel loose and strong like I didn't even ride the race. Time to get back on the V and return to training.

 

[RojoRacing]

So today I rode my first century length ride of 108 miles on the V which is nearly twice as far as I previous longest ride. Also for good measure our group made sure to toss in every local big hill for a grand total of 8200' of climbing. Because we started out with around 15 riders and regrouped several times I was able to converse more with the riders around me and they started learning to work with the V's advantages. There's one part of the hardest climb that's a sustained 16% for a ways and I made the guy next to me almost fall off his bike with laughter when in the last 50' I was getting like 30% wheel spin with each pedal stroke. On the flip side they were eager to let me pull on the front between each of the big climbs. At one point while heading down a long strait toward a usual sprint spot I yelled back at the group of 10 riders behind me asking how fast they wanted to go. Someone yelled out "40" which was an obvious jest since we were only going 24 at the time but I yelled back OK and gradually opened it up to an all out sprint reaching 36mph and dropping all but one rider. A couple hours later I asked how fast they wanted to go and they quickly responded with "this is good". Overall a fun day making new friends.

Learned I need to tip my bars further up to straiten out my wrist which started to hurt from all the steep climbs. I also added a piece of 1" foam to the lower 10" of the back rest but my tailbone and muscles to ether side still got sore enough that I was walking funny for a few hours after. It's hard to say if those comfort issues would still be a problem without all the steep climbing but I'm ready to start cutting up my 4" thick memory foam mattress topper to use on the seat.

https://www.strava.com/activities/423284214

At first it looks like lounged out with my hands behind my head.

 

[1happyreader]

Looking good,,,
hope you get those fitting tweaks dealt with.
did sitting up and rocking the bike frame let you climb without spinning out ?
later,,,, bye

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

Learned I need to tip my bars further up to straiten out my wrist which started to hurt from all the steep climbs.

I found that I needed to rotate my handlebars a few degrees downward due to left wrist pain after six months of hard riding. It seems that this is a critical adjustment I wasn't aware of until I experienced a little pain, which led me to notice that my wrists were not completely straight. This should probably be the last tiny adjustment to re-check after getting the seat, seat pad, neck rest, crank arms, Q-rings, pedals, and boom all adjusted correctly.

I imagine that someday, a recumbent cyclist will be able to go to a local bike shop and get a complete Vendetta (or other model) bike fit just as can be done today for a DF. The fit specialist would use a goniometer to get the leg angle correct; get the crank arm length tuned in exactly; suggest the right size and type of elliptical chain rings; mount the seat and seat angle just right; get the neck rest tuned in perfectly; make suggestions for becoming more aerodynamic; suggest tire/tube options for low rolling resistance; measure resistance of wheel bearings, pedal bearings, and bottom bracket bearing so as to make drive train resistance improvements; suggest type of chain and chain lube; etc. Basically, all the things I have had to learn through the forum, research, and through trial and error. I enjoy working on my own bike, and I enjoy riding it more.

But not everyone wants to be an amateur bike mechanic (hard to believe!). I know a guy who is as powerful as a freight train on a DF, but he has to take his bike to the LBS to change a tube because he doesn't know how and has no inherent mechanical skill or desire. On one ride, his rear derailleur was skipping a little and causing him to have shifting problems. Then the next week on a ride, it was still skipping. He said he hadn't had time to take it in to the LBS. I couldn't stand to listen to it anymore, so I asked him to stop at the next stop sign and hold his bike off the ground. I did a little tweak to his derailleur, and after a few seconds, "Presto" no more skipping. We were both happy. The guy makes a great time trialist and a halfway decent bike stand. But he can't change a tube to save his life, or remember to remove the bikes from the roof of the car before entering the garage. Let's just say he has "preferred customer" status at the LBS.

So the recumbent bike fit service would be nice for many who become recumbent riders, without the skill or desire to become mechanics, as recumbent bicycles become the "standard" bicycles in years to come.

 

[castlerobber]

I yelled back at the group of 10 riders behind me asking how fast they wanted to go. Someone yelled out "40" which was an obvious jest since we were only going 24 at the time but I yelled back OK and gradually opened it up to an all out sprint reaching 36mph and dropping all but one rider. A couple hours later I asked how fast they wanted to go and they quickly responded with "this is good".

LOL! Not to mention awesome.

 

[Peder Torgersen]

I have been watching this thread with interest.
It's good you are doing so well with the relative short time you have been riding a Vendetta.
I hope you get your Vendetta adjusted right for you and do well on your long race.

 

[DavidCH]

Pretty sure you are hooked and without Q Rings... Plenty of scope for more adventures

 

[jond]

hi jason if you are still looking for a helmet with an adjustor out of the way check out Lazer rollsys. the adjustor is placed on top of the helmet instead of on the back. they have a big range of road helmets and offer now the helium fast.
i personally like the giro air attack shield like the majority here and will be getting one for christmas. but the lazer is a helmet to offer a solution to that uncomfortable wheel adjustor sticking in the back of your head.

 

[RojoRacing]

hi jason if you are still looking for a helmet with an adjustor out of the way check out Lazer rollsys. the adjustor is placed on top of the helmet instead of on the back. they have a big range of road helmets and offer now the helium fast.
i personally like the giro air attack shield like the majority here and will be getting one for christmas. but the lazer is a helmet to offer a solution to that uncomfortable wheel adjustor sticking in the back of your head.

Thanks for the heads up. I did in fact already get my air attack shield and have been using it with good success for several weeks now. I'll keep the lazer helmets in mind for future endeavors.

 

[RojoRacing]

Looking good,,,
hope you get those fitting tweaks dealt with.
did sitting up and rocking the bike frame let you climb without spinning out ?
later,,,, bye

Because of my lower position of the bars and my body I can't really lean forward when going up those really steep hills. It would cause to much stress on my lower back with very little advantage. I can't wobble my way up any of my roads because we have no bike lanes and cars pass to closely so I have to focus really hard on just keeping the bike very strait. Someone is going to have to show my a very comprehensive video of the CruzBike rock and roll method in action because I just don't see how it could make much difference.

 

[RojoRacing]

Ok yesterday I rode the lunch ride and Tuesday was the usually flatter race route and we had over 40 riders show up. The pace was fast and we started dropping riders almost immediately due to the strong northern wind. Like usual I hung out at the back and off to the side so wouldn't be drafting the group and it gives me a better view of the road ahead. The riders at the rear of the group were a bit more desperate in their body English because of the quicker pace which made sitting back a good idea for safety. Id take a peek every few minutes to make sure there were no breakaways at the front and we made to to the top of the climb as one group. I passed about 2/3 the group up the climb on the windy right side of the road but slowed at the top and let everyone by again before the descent.

As soon as we reached the bottom of the short DH there's a series of rollers that are mostly uphill for a mile or so and I spotted my buddy Frank sprinting off the front and making a break for it. The group picked up the pace but wasn't really trying to stay with him but they were crowding the left side of the lane so I couldn't pass. By chance I car just happened to try passing us in a not so safe area and forced the group to the right side of the lane so I took the opportunity to pass all 30 riders on the left. As I went by I got a few "that's cheating" and "Really!!!" from the riders but I made sure when I reached the front I matched their speed to give them a chance to draft me but they did dent seem interested. After 10seconds I slowly started picking up me speed to catch Frank who was close to 200yards ahead by this point. At about 90% effort it took me about 2 miles to catch Frank who was really putting in a strong effort.

When I caught him he was tired and happy to grab onto my wheel. The group was only about 100yards back at this point so I kept my pace at 90% going with the wind so I'd have a little left if they caught us. By the time we turned back into the wind they were only about 20 yards behind me and Frank so I told Frank I was going to speed up a little. Frank got as low as he could and stuck right on my wheel as we slowly started pulling away again for about 30 seconds before chase group just fell apart behind us. Frank and I took the win for the day and left the group in the dust. When the guy who usually battles to the win on Tuesday finally caught us Frank asked him why he didn't go with the recumbent but the guy just rode past in silence with an air of disgust. Frank told me he was trying to hold his power at 300-350watts on his break away but when I caught him he had to keep it over 350 even with my draft.

Funny how often I get the "that bikes cheating" comment from the group but no one cares that it's 10lbs heavier when going uphill. I can't wait till I get back on my DF bike and see how I compare to the group then.

 

[1happyreader]

I can't really lean forward when going up those really steep hills

If your back is on the seat you can't move the frame relative to your body. You will have to spin or use movement of the boom.

show my a very comprehensive video of the CruzBike rock and roll method in action because I just don't see how it could make much difference.

I don't really get the video either,, I unweight my butt so I feel more like I am standing on the pedals or I sit up so my hips and waist feel involved . If my boom moves too much I feel like I am wasting forward motion/effort.

cars pass to closely so I have to focus really hard on just keeping the bike very strait.

Sounds like your low speed handling troubles are making climbing a stressful ordeal. Wish you had time to work out your technique and make it more instinctive.

Don't fight the bike,
Try to smile and relax those shoulders for me.
Have a good ride.
later,,, bye

 

[RojoRacing]

So after last Friday's century and the bruising of my tailbone area I've decided to focus on the cushioning of the seat this week. I tried some dual density foam which is basically just one layer of 1lb and one layer of 9lb foam glued together. Initially I could feel my body slowly sink into the foam and it conform to my body and offer what felt like great support. The ride yesterday went good and I totally forgot about the new cushion until I got off the bike after the ride. When I got up I could suddenly feel the bruising from Friday as the blood rushed to the area. Now I don't know how bruised I still am from Friday and I'm sure spending all Saturday riding hard plastic seated roller coasters didn't do my tailbone any favors. I'll save the dual density pad for later testing.

Today I received some very expensive memory type foam in both 3/4" thick 3lb and 4lb density. I cut one of each and everyday laced the 3lb on top of the 4lb. The memory foam feels really nice as it forms to your body but with constant pinpoint pressure it collapses to basically nothing which is basically what I imagine my tail bone is going to do. To counteract that higher pressure area I added a 3/4" of a higher load foam that's got slightly more spring then the stock hard foam that came with the bike. I'll give this new seat a test at lunch today and report back.

Stock is below and dual density is above

Blue is 3lb memory foam

Green is 4lb memory foam

 

[RojoRacing]

If your back is on the seat you can't move the frame relative to your body. You will have to spin or use movement of the boom.

I don't really get the video either,, I unweight my butt so I feel more like I am standing on the pedals or I sit up so my hips and waist feel involved . If my boom moves too much I feel like I am wasting forward motion/effort.
Sounds like your low speed handling troubles are making climbing a stressful ordeal. Wish you had time to work out your technique and make it more instinctive.

Don't fight the bike,
Try to smile and relax those shoulders for me.
Have a good ride.
later,,, bye

No the cars flying by inches from my left shoulder make my climbing and just about all my riding a stressful experience. Remember back at the beginning of this thread when I said I hate road cycling and prefer to stick to the dirt on Mtb

 

[RojoRacing]

 

[RojoRacing]

New memory foam cushions don't give me quite as pronounced feel of sinking into the foam as the dual density but I know I am. Honestly I totally forgot about the new seat foam after the first 2 mins of my ride and when I finished up I rushed back to work without even thinking about it. I guess the fact that I didn't get off and think "damn I'm still bruised" is a good sign that it's at least not a terrible option. One more ride on it tomorrow before heading to Southern CA for another 12hr MTB race to wrap up the SoCal Endurance Championship. Hopefully 6 days is enough time to recover before the 24hr on the Vendetta the following Friday.

 

[jond]

Thanks for the heads up. I did in fact already get my air attack shield and have been using it with good success for several weeks now. I'll keep the lazer helmets in mind for future endeavors.

the latest aero helmet from bontrager the "ballista" gets a very good review from bike radar but its adustor is in the trad position. they wind tunnel tested about 9 helmets and it topped the list with their test regime.

 

[jond]

No the cars flying by inches from my left shoulder make my climbing and just about all my riding a stressful experience. Remember back at the beginning of this thread when I said I hate road cycling and prefer to stick to the dirt on Mtb

totally understand where you are coming from. having your life in their hands is a gamble especially with mobile phones being used illegally . mirrors help a lot for re-assurance knowledge and forewarning .