Tubes or tubeless

[Mathew Fy]

I flatted on the Cruzbike Retreat after hitting a walnut, resulting in a sidewall hole and some leak at the rim. It took a minute or so to go flat. It sealed by using low pressure and tilting the wheel on its side for a couple minutes. Then I inflated to 60 psi and was good to go. I swapped in a tube because I didn’t trust it for the rest of the planned rides, but I think I could have just added some more sealant and it would have been okay.

 

[vosadrian]

Hey @CruzinCambridge,

I'm using Stans race sealant which seems to seal larger punctures than the Conti Revosealant I used before. I have used a tube patch before and it lasted the tyre life, but it was barely hanging on when I retired the tyre. I figure as it lets go, the sealant will get underneath it and do the job of sealing. I've not had an issue before. I do think the sealant could have sealed this puncture if I had enough around at the puncture site. It was only 3-4mm hole. It would have sealed if it was in the centre of the tyre. Hopefully if the patch comes off, it comes off slowly and keeps some sealant nearby to seal it!

 

[Mathew Fy]

I replaced my rear Schwalbe Pro One after 1.5 years tubeless. There was some tire cuts exposing cords and the center tread was getting thin. Anyway, I thought you’d like to see the inside. The tire had a full layer of latex with thicker ridges near the centerline. Also see the large “booger” that came out.

 

[CruzinCambridge]

Hey @CruzinCambridge,

My shop recommended the Stan's race. I'm almost out of my bottle of Stan's regular. I'll reserve judgement on tire patches... maybe my 50/50 experience has been an aberration. Glad I haven't had an opportunity to increase my "n" yet.

By way of update, I replaced the tubed tires on my S30 with tubeless and have really liked the results. I was worried using the Stan's rim tape would be difficult but it was super easy. The bike came with a mismatched set of 23 and 25mm tires... so I knew the 28 Mavic Yksion's I had laying around would be a big improvement. I'm running the 28s at 70-75 psi and I only skid out on the steepest pitches when I forget to keep my pedal strokes smooth. Maybe next year I'll try some 30mm's... but the 28s with the rear suspension have met all my needs. They were fine on a few miles of good gravel roads I've hit too.

 

[Herryy]

I think switching to a tubeless bike has been a great decision. It also reached more popularity among mountain bikes and gravel bikes, making it the ideal technology for those specific bicycles. The average 700c tubeless tires can make your bike-riding sessions easier and smoother!

 

[cranky cyclist]

I use tubeless tires And have not experienced any flats or burping of the tires. This is after four thousand miles. I like my Hutchinson tires. If I were to go back to tubes, I would probably go with something like the new turbolito thermoplastic inner tubes. They are supposed have the ride of a latex tube but much more puncture resistant.

 

[DavidCH]

How did that happen? Did you not know you were low on pressure?

Unfortunately I guess, I check my tires before I go out for the correct pressure. The sealant had dried out. One of the issues with the hot climate.

 

[Lorenzo]

Just made my first post in the S40 forum, but wanted to re-visit this discussion as I believe my experience may benefit a few of those struggling with tubeless. A few points for your consideration. Tubeless gurus should just ignore, as this will be very old news to you.

For sealant the vast majority of dedicated and experience tubeless users will insist on Orange Seal Regular (not endurance). Others can be as good but none are greeted with such universal approval.

Tire pressure for some on this forum seems very high. I won't recommend any particular pressure, but give some consideration to your total system weight and investigate if lower pressure is possible. Look up the Silca Tire Pressure Calculator. The main benefits of lower pressure are improved traction and comfort. I appreciate that on a recumbent we can't hop over obstacles. The solution should not be to pump to 100 psi, rather a higher volume tire at low psi will address all issues - pinch flat protection, traction, and comfort. Remember, many Paris Roubaix competitors will race on 28 - 30mm tubeless tires at 65 - 75 psi. Many will finish without punctures. True, Paris Roubaix is done on conventional road bikes, but it still Paris Roubaix - slamming into nasty cobbles at 70 kmh in the Arenberg Forest is surely the match of anything we may throw at our recumbents. Inner tubes simply cannot survive this sort of punishment. Tubulars, well that is something different altogether.

In general, I am surprised more are not running bigger tires. For road applications it is worth considering wider rims - up 32mm external and 25mm internal. A nominal 28mm tire mounted on the front will balloon out to about 31.5mm creating an aerodynamically optimal tire
/rim interface. A nominal 30mm tire will be about 33mm. Not optimal but OK for the rear where the air is already disturbed. I run this combination on my DF Factor Ostro at about 65psi. While all things being equal, a narrower setup would be more aero, the benefits of the increased tire volume and lower pressure are well worth the tiny loss in aero IMO.

And finally, this thread contains some unfortunate stories of attempts at patching tires, and fitting innertubes into messy tubeless tires on the road. Perhaps I missed it, but I don't believe anyone mentioned Dynaplugs. If you are running tubeless you should always have Dynaplugs with you.

 

[Mathew Fy]

Dynaplugs

I had two attempts at using these, once when a large screw went through the bottom & sidewall. Another attempt was after a sidewall cut (sharp rock). Both failed after several attempts, so I had to put in a tube. I still carry a Dynaplug Pill, I’m sure it’ll come in handy someday.

Dynaplug® Online Store | Dynaplug® Pill - Tubeless Bicycle Tire Repair Kit

www.dynaplug.com

 

[Lorenzo]

@Mathew Fy - do you recall what sealant you were using? My first puncture on tubeless was a paperclip through the sidewall. Couldn't get it to seal. Had to put in a tube - didn't have plugs with me.

I have used Dynaplugs three times with success. On one occasion a bigger hole required two plugs. Sidewall cuts or even just sidewall holes are a problem in part because there may be no sealant sloshing against that spot to help build and keep the repair. I have seen a tubeless tire with badly cut sidewalls on both sides from a severe pinch flat repaired successfully with Genuine Innovation Tire Worms. You can even repair a big hole with butchers twine if you have the right tool to push the twine into the hole. Some of this stuff gets into mtb territory where psi is lower.

 

[vosadrian]

I use Stans race sealant. It is thick and must be poured into the tyre rather than injected through the valve. I found it offers much better puncture sealing than any other sealant I have used (the other I used were much thinner and less effective), and pouring it into the tyre is no big deal.

The only times it has not sealed for me are with side wall tears. I don't think the plugs would help with that either. In these occasions, it is really no worse to fit a tube than when I ran tubed tyres. I just carry a tube and a Park tyre boot to put of the side wall tear (which the tube would poke out otherwise). Just pour out the sealant from the tyre, and fit the tube (remove valve). It takes maybe a minute or two longer than if you were replacing a traditional tubed tyre. I've never not made it home from any puncture. I have a large tail box, so just carry a couple spare tubes in case, but rarely use them.

I would consider dyna plugs.... but I've never had a situation where they would have helped. Most of the side wall tears I have had have been cuts that are >10mm in length. Usually from glass or metal debris.

 

[Herryy]

Regarding road cycling, tubeless bike tires are better. They are high-pressure, meaning there’s a less likely chance of pinch flats. There are also fewer problems for you since the chances of the rims blowing off are also less likely.

 

[DavidCH]

I put a tubular tyre on the back... its going to be monokoted so it's good because it keeps the tire pressure consistent.

The valve is adaptive so I could put sealant in it but running without for the moment.

 

[Mathew Fy]

When you park your bike on the trainer and the latex settles.