V20 conversion from narrow 700mm wheels to wide 26"

[Black Hawk Down]

I'm converting my V20 to do credit card touring and I'd like to go with wider tires like I have on my S40. My current tires are 1" 700 mm and I'd like to go with 2" or so 26". It' looks like the back fork will accommodate, but the front is too narrow. I was wondering if the S40 fork would fit on the V20. If anyone knows, I would appreciate their help. Otherwise, I'll just tear the two bikes apart and try it.

I would also like to know if the disk brake mounts are the same for the two bikes. Thanks

#robertholler #ratz #frito bandito #mathew fy

 

[Mathew Fy]

I was wondering if the S40 fork would fit on the V20.

Let me know, I often thought of doing the same thing. The brake mounts look the same on my 2016 V20 and 2020 S40. I have ridden up to 700 x 30mm tires on the V20 but had some rub (evidence by having the paint worn off). On same bike I started out riding with 650b, 38 mm fit but also rub. That wheel now happily rides on my S40 and there's plenty of room.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I have heard of some folks dropping from 700c wheels to 26", and while it seems that there is a bit more clearance just because the forks are tapered and the 26" wheel is shorter, just how much clearance the smaller diameter rim creates is hard to say. On my narrow C15 Campagnolo Bullet wheels, the 28mm Schwalbe One tires would balloon, giving about 1-2mm clearance. The Conti GP5000 28mm tires on the same rims give a lot more clearance. There are some 30mm tubeless Conti 5000 tires in my LBS that I'll likely buy for my next tire change, and those might go on my C17 Campagnolo rims so, this shows that the manufacturers aren't being very accurate either about labeling or measuring tire widths. So keep that "labeling" in mind as well.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

Let me know, I often thought of doing the same thing. The brake mounts look the same on my 2016 V20 and 2020 S40. I have ridden up to 700 x 30mm tires on the V20 but had some rub (evidence by having the paint worn off). On same bike I started out riding with 650b, 38 mm fit but also rub. That wheel now happily rides on my S40 and there's plenty of room.

I think my tires are 28 mm on the V20 with no issues. Sure would like to go bigger for the occasional gravel on the tours.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

I have heard of some folks dropping from 700c wheels to 26", and while it seems that there is a bit more clearance just because the forks are tapered and the 26" wheel is shorter, just how much clearance the smaller diameter rim creates is hard to say. On my narrow C15 Campagnolo Bullet wheels, the 28mm Schwalbe One tires would balloon, giving about 1-2mm clearance. The Conti GP5000 28mm tires on the same rims give a lot more clearance. There are some 30mm tubeless Conti 5000 tires in my LBS that I'll likely buy for my next tire change, and those might go on my C17 Campagnolo rims so, this shows that the manufacturers aren't being very accurate either about labeling or measuring tire widths. So keep that "labeling" in mind as well.

I tried putting my 26" front wheel from my S40 onto my V20 today. The S40 tire is 2" wide. There's no way it comes close to fitting. I think maybe a 1.5" might fit but I really want big tires. Even with the 2" Schwalbe Mondales I had a lot of difficulty on dirt roads. Front wheel drive is really no good off road.

 

[TransAm]

I'm converting my V20 to do credit card touring and I'd like to go with wider tires like I have on my S40. My current tires are 1" 700 mm and I'd like to go with 2" or so 26". It' looks like the back fork will accommodate, but the front is too narrow. I was wondering if the S40 fork would fit on the V20. If anyone knows, I would appreciate their help. Otherwise, I'll just tear the two bikes apart and try it.

I would also like to know if the disk brake mounts are the same for the two bikes. Thanks

#robertholler #ratz #frito bandito #mathew fy

I've done credit card touring on my V20 with 30mm tires, and you can see from my profile pic that I'm a Clyde. Not sure why you want to go to 50mm. I'd suggest trying 28-30mm tires on the V20 before you start doing major surgery.

If you are worried about bottoming out and pinch flats, you can try going tubeless with Vittoria Air-Liner Road tubeless liners. They solve both problems and give you a run-flat option. They can also prevent front flat crashes, because they keep the tire bead seated, so the tire does not roll over. The downside is that you need to carry the Vittoria Air-Liner Tool (or just the included set of small levers) because it is impossible to remove the tire without them, unless you cut it off. The foam liner will keep the beads seated, so you can't get one bead into the center groove. You need to insert the small levers around 180 deg one one side of the tire to push the bead into the groove, then use a large lever to pop the bead over the rim on the same side. It's NBD once you figure it out, just try it before you get far from home.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

I've done credit card touring on my V20 with 30mm tires, and you can see from my profile pic that I'm a Clyde. Not sure why you want to go to 50mm. I'd suggest trying 28-30mm tires on the V20 before you start doing major surgery.

If you are worried about bottoming out and pinch flats, you can try going tubeless with Vittoria Air-Liner Road tubeless liners. They solve both problems and give you a run-flat option. They can also prevent front flat crashes, because they keep the tire bead seated, so the tire does not roll over. The downside is that you need to carry the Vittoria Air-Liner Tool (or just the included set of small levers) because it is impossible to remove the tire without them, unless you cut it off. The foam liner will keep the beads seated, so you can't get one bead into the center groove. You need to insert the small levers around 180 deg one one side of the tire to push the bead into the groove, then use a large lever to pop the bead over the rim on the same side. It's NBD once you figure it out, just try it before you get far from home.

I did a ride around the US perimeter that ended last year on my S40, which had 2" Schwalbe Mondial tires. Every dirt road was very difficult even with these tires. On my V20, I've tried to ride on dirt/gravel with 28 mm tires and it was impossible. I don't purposely ride on dirt roads, but some times they just happen in a tour. Also, there's lots of difficult dirt or rutty bike trails that require fatter tires. For a tour, I want as fat a tire as possible. If I can put the S40 fork on the V20, I will.

I have had bad experiences with tubeless tires. I couldn't seem to make the bead seal. I even bought a special floor pump that would provide high volume air at high pressure. Nothing worked. I always had to go to my LBS and have them do it, and they struggled. I gave up. I'm happy with tube tires.

You're suggestion of using Vittoria Air-Liner Road tubeless liners sounds interesting and I may check it out at some point. Thanks.

 

[TransAm]

I did a ride around the US perimeter that ended last year on my S40, which had 2" Schwalbe Mondial tires. Every dirt road was very difficult even with these tires. On my V20, I've tried to ride on dirt/gravel with 28 mm tires and it was impossible. I don't purposely ride on dirt roads, but some times they just happen in a tour. Also, there's lots of difficult dirt or rutty bike trails that require fatter tires. For a tour, I want as fat a tire as possible. If I can put the S40 fork on the V20, I will.

I have had bad experiences with tubeless tires. I couldn't seem to make the bead seal. I even bought a special floor pump that would provide high volume air at high pressure. Nothing worked. I always had to go to my LBS and have them do it, and they struggled. I gave up. I'm happy with tube tires.

You're suggestion of using Vittoria Air-Liner Road tubeless liners sounds interesting and I may check it out at some point. Thanks.

Yeah, the V20 is not a gravel bike. It's fine on anything firm, including cinders, but anything loose and watch out. The nice thing about the Cruzbike is that you can walk it without bashing your shins on the pedals. So anytime the surface is questionable, I just go for a stroll.

I was able to put my V20 fork on the V20C with a 1-1/8" to 1-1/2" crown race adapter:

https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/v20-vs-v20c-frame-differences.14752/#post-177444

But that was putting a smaller bearinged fork in a bigger bearinged frame. I think you are trying to do the opposite. The S40 takes the Cane Creek Viscoset headset, which won't work on the V20.

The liners make it easy to seat the bead. It's just impossible to unseat without the special tools.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I did a ride around the US perimeter that ended last year on my S40, which had 2" Schwalbe Mondial tires. Every dirt road was very difficult even with these tires. On my V20, I've tried to ride on dirt/gravel with 28 mm tires and it was impossible. I don't purposely ride on dirt roads, but some times they just happen in a tour. Also, there's lots of difficult dirt or rutty bike trails that require fatter tires. For a tour, I want as fat a tire as possible. If I can put the S40 fork on the V20, I will.

I have had bad experiences with tubeless tires. I couldn't seem to make the bead seal. I even bought a special floor pump that would provide high volume air at high pressure. Nothing worked. I always had to go to my LBS and have them do it, and they struggled. I gave up. I'm happy with tube tires.

You're suggestion of using Vittoria Air-Liner Road tubeless liners sounds interesting and I may check it out at some point. Thanks.

I have had similar problems trying to seat Schwalbe tubeless tires on my Campagnolo rims. I bought a special Giant Pump with a reservoir to help blast the air inside to force the sidewalls to seat, but even then it was not easy. I wound up using a CO2 canister to get the Schwalbes to seat, then filled the rest up with the pump.
I found a Continental GP 5000 TL (true tubeless) that seats even with a regular pump and doesnt require sealant but most people put it anyway. That is what I currently have on the rear wheel of my V20. Now, Continental GP 5000 tires are the TR version, not TL, so they require sealant. I haven't tried them yet, so I can't say if they seat on the Campagnolo rims I have without needing to blast air in there first. Since I know the TL version seats with just a regular pump I will be trying to find those instead of the TR version. They are about 40g heavier than the TR version but I had absolutely no problems with it at all. So, what I am getting at is that maybe you need to try some different wheel/tire combos to see which works well and that you can do on the side of the road.

 

[TransAm]

I have had similar problems trying to seat Schwalbe tubeless tires on my Campagnolo rims. I bought a special Giant Pump with a reservoir to help blast the air inside to force the sidewalls to seat, but even then it was not easy. I wound up using a CO2 canister to get the Schwalbes to seat, then filled the rest up with the pump.
I found a Continental GP 5000 TL (true tubeless) that seats even with a regular pump and doesnt require sealant but most people put it anyway. That is what I currently have on the rear wheel of my V20. Now, Continental GP 5000 tires are the TR version, not TL, so they require sealant. I haven't tried them yet, so I can't say if they seat on the Campagnolo rims I have without needing to blast air in there first. Since I know the TL version seats with just a regular pump I will be trying to find those instead of the TR version. They are about 40g heavier than the TR version but I had absolutely no problems with it at all. So, what I am getting at is that maybe you need to try some different wheel/tire combos to see which works well and that you can do on the side of the road.

The other thing I have seen suggested is to just use more wraps of tape on the rim to get the tire to inflate.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

I have had similar problems trying to seat Schwalbe tubeless tires on my Campagnolo rims. I bought a special Giant Pump with a reservoir to help blast the air inside to force the sidewalls to seat, but even then it was not easy. I wound up using a CO2 canister to get the Schwalbes to seat, then filled the rest up with the pump.
I found a Continental GP 5000 TL (true tubeless) that seats even with a regular pump and doesnt require sealant but most people put it anyway. That is what I currently have on the rear wheel of my V20. Now, Continental GP 5000 tires are the TR version, not TL, so they require sealant. I haven't tried them yet, so I can't say if they seat on the Campagnolo rims I have without needing to blast air in there first. Since I know the TL version seats with just a regular pump I will be trying to find those instead of the TR version. They are about 40g heavier than the TR version but I had absolutely no problems with it at all. So, what I am getting at is that maybe you need to try some different wheel/tire combos to see which works well and that you can do on the side of the road.

Thanks for the info. I failed miserably using the special pump and several air canisters. The LBS used a compressor and it still took them a half an hour to get the tires to seal. Too much hassle. I'm fine with tube tires.

 

[bladderhead]

I had a terrible time failing to fit tubeless. Really not fun. For some reason I could not find tubes that fit the tyres. That was the only reason I was attempting tubeless. Then I finally found a source of tubes. What a relief that was.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

I had a terrible time failing to fit tubeless. Really not fun. For some reason I could not find tubes that fit the tyres. That was the only reason I was attempting tubeless. Then I finally found a source of tubes. What a relief that was.

I'm curious what kind of tires you had that could not use standard tubes. Every LBS and Amazon have tubes for every model.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

Just an update on my conversion, after advice from Robert Holler, I was able to put the S40 front fork on my V20. The S20 fork steer tube is longer than the V20 so you will need some extra shims. I happened to have a steer tube extender on the V20, which I removed but used the shims for the longer steer tube on the S40 fork. Now I no longer need the extender.

The S40 26 inch wheels now fit on the V40 with 2 inch tires (Schwalbe Marathon Mondial). The back is a real close fit, but works. The front is good with the new fork. I had trouble with the back brake rotor. It was rubbing on a weld point at the dropouts. I used my Dremel to grind down the weld and now it works. Robert said the old V20s had this issue. It's fixed with the new ones.

The SRAM Rival hydrolic brakes come with connectors and filled with brake fluid. But, if you want to run the back brake line through the bike body, as I did, you have to cut off one of the connectors to fit the tube through the holes in the frame. But that's not all, the standard brake hose is too short, so you have to purchase a 3 meter hose and replace the one that came with the brake. Now, after running the hose through the bike frame, you have to add connectors to each side of the hose and connect them to the brake and shifter.

I had to use a bunch of washers to make the SRAM Rival front brakes fit the mounts that I already had for my previous brakes. I have a IS to post mount converter. Then I used a post mount to flat mount converter for the new brake. I couldn't find a spacer on line to make the brake work with 203 rotors, hence the washers. I'll keep looking.

On the back brake, there's an IS to PM converter and a PM to FM converter, which worked great with my 180 rotor.

After mounting the brakes and seeing that they don't rub on anything when spinning the wheels, I had to bleed the back brake, since I replaced the hose. That turns out to be a two person job and not very much fun. I long for my cable actuated TRP HYRD brakes as they are sooooo easy to install and they work so well. Once the bleeding procedure was complete, I went to look for the bleed screws, and one was missing. After tearing up the whole house several times, I gave up and looked for screws online. I found some but I can't get them until Wednesday (4 days). I ordered them and then the next day went to 3 different bike shops to see if they had any. Nope. So, now I wait and get fatter.

 

[TransAm]

I long for my cable actuated TRP HYRD brakes as they are sooooo easy to install and they work so well.

I put TRP HY-ROAD brakes on my V20C, and I love them!

But I did have to use a tandem rear brake cable, so similar to your issue with the extra long hose.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

I put TRP HY-ROAD brakes on my V20C, and I love them!

But I did have to use a tandem rear brake cable, so similar to your issue with the extra long hose.

I did have a bad TRP brake on my tour and had to have it replaced. Otherwise, I love them. Saved me from having to buy new brifers when switching to hydraulic. With CB, you always need a longer than standard brake cable in the rear.

 

[bladderhead]

My S40 has 650b 38mms Gravel King. Loads of places seem to sell tubes that are too wide to go in. Fat, for MTB. After a lot of searching I found Specialized.
These are the only ones that fit.

No hydro brake levers are compatible with my peculiar handlebars, therefore I have Hy/Rd, which allows me to get levers.

Posting about the S40 in the V20 forum. Thread hijacking.

 

[TransAm]

I did have a bad TRP brake on my tour and had to have it replaced. Otherwise, I love them. Saved me from having to buy new brifers when switching to hydraulic. With CB, you always need a longer than standard brake cable in the rear.

With my V20 and caliper brakes, a standard long cable just reached. But with the discs on the V20C, a tandem cable is needed.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

Trouble!! I am unable to properly adjust the steer tube and head set. I've tried several times to loosten the stem bolts or the bolts that hold the shims and tighten the preload screw. The fork is loose unless I tighten the preset screw so tight that It's difficult to turn the handlebars. Even with the tension too tight, the fork moves when pressing the brake and pushing on the handlebars back and forth. I can't seem to find what's wrong. The cap with the tension screw rests on the top of the shims and does not make contact with the steer tube.

I fear that the bearings and or bearing races are wrong for the bike/fork combination. I don't know how to determine that. Any ideas would be great. Thanks.

 

[M.J]

Wrong bearing interface would be my guess. Can you swap the crown race from the old fork to the new one?