Vendetta 2.0 unboxing and build

thebean

Well-Known Member
Eric,
Great post!  Looking


Eric,

Great post! Looking forward to hearing ride reports!

Ok, incorrectly placed Velcro and filing and sanding? And you paid...sorry guys, when one pays this kind of money, filing and sanding should not be part of the set up! I am not mechanically inclined, so when I buy my Silvio 2.0, I really hope I won't have these issues!
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
If you pay this kind of money

If you pay this kind of money purchasing from a large company it would be more surprising to have any little thing slip past, but it still happens. We are a very small company, we each wear multiple hats, and we must always prioritise our tasks. As a result, we are not the right company for some folks, and we happily accept that when its the case. What we are trying to do is push the envelope of what cycling can be, and that is the principle measure we judge ourselves on. We want to change cycling for ever, and so our R&D cycle is high, which means smaller production quantities and frequent new specifications to verify and do quality control on. That is the price of developing stuff no one has done before. If you want the benefits of that R&D focus, you must accept its limitations also. As a case in point, what do I do today? - do I make a new quality control instruction to the factory, or put that aside till I get more customer feedback and instead work on next year's new product release, a product that has never been commercially released. What would folks have me do? That is the reality of it, we have the products we have because we prioritise time to R&D. Maria's RAAM is no different. That goal absorbs an enormous amout of time and effort; but it creates R&D objectives that when solved will put real solutions into customers hands that today arn't even in anyone's imagination.

Customer involvement with how new products hit the ground is part of our path to our goal. We want to create a fabulous customer experience right out of the box, but when delivery of these new products is not letter-perfect we don't beat ourselves up over it and don't accept others doing so. What we do instead, is work with the customer. Even for owners that never purchased from us, and with whom we have no actual business relationship, we have taken that approach. I think that is a far better way to go. The goal is to make it work and so we work hard to resolve issues that can and do arise.

 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
oh, a note about

oh, a note about versions.
1.0 original
1.5, same triangle, removeable seat mainframe
2.0 same triangle, HF tube mainframe

Excuse me, but for clarity, I will amend the thread title.
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Fine by me. I was using v3

Fine by me. I was using v3 because Jim had already used v1 and v2 in his Vendetta videos and here on the forums so I figured this one was v3.

John, I like the way you guys do things and the help you offer everyone. Frankly your FWD MBB design is what originally drew me in as it just seems to be more rational than 10+ foot chains, etc but what clinched the deal for me was how you, Jim, Maria, Doug and others continue to be engaged directly with customers, potential customers, or just folks asking some questions to learn more.

Thanks,

-Eric
 

Jim Gerwing

Well-Known Member
Well said, John and ibid, Eric

And now for something completely different:
My original plan was to take the components off of my road bike and transfer them to the v2.
Out of 9 major bits I am confident two will work.
Time for plan B:
I am going to put the Allez back together, sell it for whatever I can get for it and get the V to a bike shop.
Eric, I hope your build goes well, I am not half the mechanic I thought I was.
 

thebean

Well-Known Member
John,
its really cool that


John,

its really cool that you put so much into R&D! This is what makes your company so special. I will be purchasing my Silvio 2.0 from Vite Bikes and I know John Schlitter will get her set up perfectly for me.
 

JustTooBig

New Member
"Perfect" rarely exists

Wow ..... criticism over needing to file dropouts?? Come on, what's with the "when one pays this kind of money..." nonsense? I have to assume onyone making a brash statement like that has never built their own bike.

I've built dozens of bikes in the last 30+ years, and virtually every one has had some minor challenges to overcome. Filing paint from dropouts is actually a fairly common ocurrance, and yet that's somehow "unacceptable"?? Really? There are three or four different ways to finish a bike's paint. Each of them results in a different thickness of paint, affecting how the hub is going to fit between the dropouts. But that doesn't meaan that one bike's specs call for four different spacings for dropouts, depending on which finish is used. Why? Because that is easily compensated for at the time of the build with the use of a fine file. That is a common ocurrance, not an insurmountable problem.

Come on, folks ..... mis-located velcro is easy to fix. The need to file painted dropouts is very common (yes, even when it's an uber-$, one-off custom frame). These are NOT design flaws, they're minor issues at worst. If you're not sufficiently mechanically adept to deal with little issues like that, you shouldn't be building your own bike anyway -- take it to the pros at your LBS.

John, everyone with any experience building bikes understands that minor issues like this happen, even if the designer has done everything possible to avoid problems of any and every kind. You do have my support and understanding.

-CF

 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
Lisa doesn't mean anything by

Lisa doesn't mean anything by it. She doesn't consider herself mechanically inclined and hasn't built up her own bikes (I'm willing to bet she could and would be good at it - playing guitar takes mechanical dexterity). It's also worth pointing out that Eric has (I believe) a not-quite-final production version of the Vendetta 2. He understands this and is doing his job by reporting what issues he's finding.
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Mine is the final production

Mine is the final production version but I understand John is working on a proper carbon fiber seat to better suit the new Vendetta.

As far as this thread goes, I'm doing it to help the next person who gets a Vendetta or is thinking about getting a Vendetta as well as providing contructive feedback to John and the rest of the Cruzbike team.

I've got more to post about, including some things NOT to do but got tied up with work and some other things this weekend.

More coming - stay tuned.

-Eric
 

thebean

Well-Known Member
I truly apologize!  Charles

I truly apologize! Charles "gets" me! I did not realize it was such a small company, and also, there do seem to be a majority of folks on this forum that are great with their hands. I also realized that when relooking at Eric's box that it came from China. I assumed incorrectly that the frames were being made in Perth under Johns supervision.

Buying the Silvio 2.0 will be a great experience for me, and it's nice to know ahead of time that Vite Bikes might have to do a little fiddling here and there. I am good with that, as long as they are doing the fiddling!!!
 

Doug Burton

Zen MBB Master
I'm here...

... to follow up on the issues that come from being a small company and having such an aggressive R&D curve. John designs (and is doing a helluva job I might add) and I provide follow-up on the back end to make sure things work for you, the customers.

I have some experience in this. I have certifications from the American Society for Quality (ASQ) in the following genre's of quality management:

Certified Quality Engineer
Certified Reliability Engineer
Certified Quality Auditor
Certified Six Sigma Black Belt
Certified Quality Manager

I bring all this to making Cruzbikes work for owners, potential owners, even folks who are attempting to build their own MBB bikes from scratch. I am truly into "changing cycling forever." John has a great vision for this company, and I'm all for it. We are not stingy with our time, experience, or knowledge. We believe in the concept.

We provide a level of customer response unrivaled in recumbent cycling, which is something a small company can do that a large one can't. If someone has a specific issue, I have before and continue to fabricate specific parts and solutions for these folks. Not many companies are able to do this.

I'm very proud of what John has achieved with the MBB platform. He builds from scratch what we can't buy, and he buys pre-fab parts when it doesn't make sense for us to build. He's struck a fine balance.

Jim and Maria are the best CEO and CFO you could wish for. They are not afraid to invest in the things we make a solid business case for.

When I retire from my "day job", I want to put lots more time in this undertaking.

New technology comes with challenges, and that's what we're forging here. You can't get these capabilities from anyone else. "The cutting edge is where all the bleeding happens" is something I've heard many times. You, our customers, are on the cutting edge of a new bike technology that has incredible promise, and has proved its worth in competition, all the way down to recreational cycling. That's very exciting and motivating for me. I want to make it work for you.

Sorry for the long personal diatribe, but I think we are doing fine work. John has my utmost admiration for the amount of his life he's put into all this. I feel privileged to be a part of it.

And "you ain't seen nothin' yet..."

Best to all,

Doug
 

Jeff Jonas

New Member
Vendetta



HI Eric,

Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures which really brings us all along for the ride! I look forward to seeing it when it's finished and can't wait to hear some feedback from your future rides.

The new Vendetta looks awesome!


Ride fast!


Jeff
 
Velcro in sheer

John,
I am not so concerned about the times when the seat/frame interface is in sheer. It's the normal forces I'm thinking about. For example, when I ride with no hands I use my shoulder blades pushing on the left and right sides of the seatback to control the bike. Have you tried this on the Vendetta 2.0? If no-hands riding comes at the cost of other improvements (fast seat removable, lower cost and complexity) then that's fine. I guess my biggest concern is about fast maneuvering and direction changes. Do these types of maneuvers require much normal force on the sides of the seatback?

Obviously I haven't ridden a V2 before. If I'm just worrying about nothing then I'll shut up.
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
Elliot, 
its a fair question.


Elliot,
its a fair question. I havn't been able to tell if I have the bolts in or not, in any riding I do, handsfree, cruising, climbing. But I sure was annoyed when they were in and I couldn't get to the underseat space easily.
 

TimOz

Member
Great thread

Eric,
Thanks for the generosity you have shown to post the experience of assembling your lovely new bike. It is great to see the progress.

John,
Well done. A beautiful machine.

Hi Lisa,
I hate to be picky but this bike is not made in China. It is from Taiwan ROC (Republic of China). Calling Taiwan China is a little like calling America Mexico.

Taiwan is not China - yet. There are moves to make Taiwan part of mainland Chine but there was a globally significant war over this issue. Chiang Kai-Shek's army called the Koumintang fought it out with Mao tse Tung's nationalist army and many millions died. As it stands today, Taiwan is industrious and innovative. Mainland China is catching up and very good at manufacture but not so good at innovation (most Apple products are made there - but designed elsewhere), Taiwan has a long history of making high quality pushbikes and being at the cutting edge of manufacturing technology. I imagine this is why John is using Taiwanese manufacturing. I concur that a bit of "fine tuning of a low volume and specialise bike like this is expected. This is what dremels were invented for.

Best wished and have fun!!
 

1happyreader

zen/child method
tool less tangents

But I sure was annoyed when they were in [seat bolts] and I couldn't get to the underseat space easily.
That just rings in my head,, something like the quest's seat knobs ??? wonder if nylon wingnuts would hold up ?
 

kidneyboy

Well-Known Member
 It's been more than 24 hours

It's been more than 24 hours since the last update Eric.............. Are you letting work get in the way of all this fun we're having?
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Yep, environmental alarms

Yep, environmental alarms went off the other day for the cooling in the datacenter I run so it has been a bit hectic.

I've also managed to get the slider stuck in the boom and have been working with John, Jim, and Doug on resolving that issue. I'll post more soon. I tell you what though, the Cruzbike team is a great bunch to work with.

PS - Jim has a wicked sense of humor.

-Eric
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Teaser for the next

Teaser for the next episode:





Hmmm, I have a 38 inch xseam...

I wonder how this is going to turn out? Hint - John creates very, very clever designs.




I have to take some more photos to better describe the ways to adjust fit while juggling work and waiting for some more parts to arrive. Won't be long.

-Eric
 

thebean

Well-Known Member
Eric,
The Cruzbike


Eric,

The Cruzbike team worked closely with my mechanic in Phoenix and we were able to get the Silvio to fit me, also using some extra padding on the seat. I am sure you will get it to fit you like a glove! Like you said, the customer service is just spectacular!
 
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