Wondering about the fastest, while wide-range, drivetrain

[3bs]

I saw that vid.
I think your Shimano would handle the wickwerks

 

[Bentas]

There's a lot of Sram in this thread! I have Shimano on my bike and would like to not have to replace everything.

I'm using 10 speed 11x50 with mid cage Shimano road derailleur !, 46t one by,up front and 10 speed Microshift bar end,
Same pull ratio as shimano 10 speed brifter, hacks that make this work ( and work flawlessly) are Roadlink,, and reversing B screw, so it screws in from opposition direction.
I was using Mtb 9 speed shimanoXT derailleur , and road link, but current set up is much crisper.
Spin out at around 55 Klms.

 

[MrSteve]

Have you seen/heard about rear derailleur hanger extenders?
Google it, research, and see if this will help your mid-cage or road derailleur cope with large gears in your cassette.
It's an option I only recently learned about myself, so if you're already familiar with this... others may not be.

 

[rx7mark]

There is a empire 12speed then there is the empire pro which is carbon... Which recently came out. I wonder if they fixed the durability

The reviews I have read on the Empire Pro Carbon, mention that the FD is improved over the old version. But until someone try's it and reports back here, I'm not sure if it's good enough for our bikes. I may try it, about a $200 investment or risk, but I am planning on putting together a 12 speed bike, so this is one of the only options, and the SRAM Etap.

Mark

 

[Bentas]

Have you seen/heard about rear derailleur hanger extenders?
Google it, research, and see if this will help your mid-cage or road derailleur cope with large gears in your cassette.
It's an option I only recently learned about myself, so if you're already familiar with this... others may not be.
View attachment 9531

Roadlink for road derailleur, Goatlink for MTB derailleur s

 

[Rampa]

I have the Sensah brifters, or rather brifter. The left side is a dummy because I got their cyclocross setup. I am wondering if their road and cyclocross brifters are the same cable-pull. I think they probably are, so you may be able to just use the long cage derailleur from the SRX group.

Most of the mechanicals are actually in the left side dummy. There is a lockout that can be disabled to let the lever swing, but I think the ratchet mechanism is missing or locked-out itself.

They do throw toward the legs, so it could be an issue for some configurations. But timing your downshift with your leg extension will play a big roll there too.

 

[Rampa]

Apparently the left brifter in the Sensah group can be overloaded by the extra force required for shifting poor-leverage front derailleurs. So peeps setting up a 2X drivetrain, be aware of that.

 

[Osiris]

One of the challenging aspects of the Vendetta is the wide-ranging drivetrain it really needs. Being the world's fastest road bike, it obviously needs a high top gear. But unlike those low-racers that are only meant to go fast around a flat track, the real advantage of the Vendetta is the way it performs on roads in general, including hills. That requires low gears.

A DF rider can to some extent just stand up and grind on a lowest gear that's really a little too high. And frankly, the direct power transfer of a Cruzbike is pretty well suited to grinding as well, but I think that like with other recumbents, being able to spin up long inclines is sometimes necessary.

Which all in all means that the Vendetta requires an unusually wide-ranging drivetrain.

I was considering this even before I got my own Vendetta, and right away I installed a wide 11-42T MTB cassette, MTB derailleur, and a Jtek Shiftmate to make it work with the road shifter. See here for details: https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/solo-touring-in-norway-on-a-loaded-vendetta.12618/

This has been working OK, but more and more often, as I get comfortable on the bike, I find that when wind conditions are favorable and I feel inspired to put down some power, I quickly run out of gears. I suppose the obvious answer is that I should replace my compact 50/34T crankset with a 53/39T. But these days, there seems to be so many other things to consider when it comes to drivetrains. Should I go 12 speed? Should I go from 11T to 10T (or even 9T) on the smallest cog? That would make a bigger difference than the change of crankset. But will I be limited to 33T on the biggest cog, then? And are these even available at less than astronomical cost?

All this stuff about gravel bikes that is going on is leading to many new options. Though some of those options are limited to a 1x crankset. And those that work with 2x are usually designed with even more compact cranksets in mind than the one I use.

Ideally, if it was possible, I think I would have liked something like a 53/39T in the front combined with a 10-42T cassette. What do you think is the best option for getting reasonably close to that, within a reasonable budget?

Having ridden for many years with a power meter, my observations are these:

1. Pedaling at high rpms puts too great a load on my cardio-vascular system to be practical for hill climbing. Producing say 300 watts at 120 rpm will tire me out much sooner than if I produce 300 watts at 60 rpm. So unless you happen to be someone whose body is perfectly adapted for high cadence / low torque power production, you will see no benefit from an 11-42T cassette. On my road bike, I once swapped out the stock 11-28 cassette for an 11-32, thinking that the larger 32T gear would help me climb the steepest hills in my area. It had just the opposite result; not only could I climb hills faster with the smaller 28T gear, I was also less exhausted when reaching the top.

2. The front wheel drive creates limitations on traction that I've never encountered with rear drive recumbents. In one particular case, I rode up a hill so steep that it required something close to 600 watts just to keep the V20 from falling over. At that power output, every pedal stroke caused the front wheel to momentarily lose traction. I've found this to be the case even on other hills that weren't as steep, but where the pavement was very rough and/or where there was a bit of sand. What I found in these conditions was that the faster I turned the pedals, the harder it was to keep power production smooth enough throughout the pedal stroke to prevent wheel spin. In those conditions, it was actually necessary to keep my cadence relatively slow in order to avoid sudden losses in traction, so going to a very large 32T+ gear would have made climbing those hills harder, not easier.

These have been my experiences, YMMV.

 

[benphyr]

@Tor Hovland were you referring to very steep grades as mentioned by @Osiris or long grades that you spin up at the same speed but spin at 80 vs. 60 and hurt knees?

Going back to the first post you were looking to keep the same bottom end but increase the high speed gearing somewhat, isn’t that right?

 

[velocio]

Roadlink for road derailleur, Goatlink for MTB derailleur s

RoadLink and GoatLink are two options from Wolf Tooth Components for a dropout extender -- and the most expensive options of any I've seen. When I needed one of those for a 1x drivetrain I was setting up on the cheap for a 9 year old pal recently I eBay'ed a no-name option direct from China for $.99, shipping included. There's no real technology here, just a simple chunk of CNC'ed aluminum, the cheap option works just fine. If a recognizable brand name is needed I saw 3-4 brands that I knew that all appeared to be identical to my unbranded bit, but were more like $7-$12.

It's a bit of a roll of the dice on direct from China eBay goods, but in all but a few cases I've been pleasantly surprised by the quality and it's hard to argue with the cost savings of cutting out 3 or 4 layers of middlemen in the retail distribution chain.

-Jack

 

[Winded Lowrider]

I'm looking to get a lower gear on my vendetta V20. 36 teeth in back is just too much to turn over on some of the steeper hills around here ( 12- 13 percent). I've got a SRAM GX 10 speed rear derailleur. Found this quote on the analog cycles website.

"Wolftooth makes this little nugget of aluminum. In a nutshell, it allows you to increase how big of a cog your rear derailleur can shift to. It only works on certain derailleurs, but if you have an old school, sorta normal one, like a Shimano 105 from 2016, or a 9 speed Shimano Deore, or a 10 speed SRAM GX unit, this thing will work."

Sounds too good to be true. I want to change to 11-40 t. Sounds like for SRAM some "filing down of the tang" is required to make this fit properly... and there is the max capacity bug-a-boo.

Can anyone confirm this for me? Has anyone done this successfully?

Thanks
-Brad

 

[rx7mark]

I went from SRAM GX 11 speed with an 11-42 cassette to a Wolf kit that enlarges the cassette to 11-49. The deraillure was only rated up to 42 teeth, but it sort of worked, but I was never really happy with the shifting. I finally upgraded to a SRAM GX Eagle derailuer which is listed as a 12 speed, but works great with a 11 speed shifter or any other SRAM offroad shifter. You have to get an adapter to use with road shifters.

Not exactly what you asked. But another option, the GX level derailleurs are not much more than the Wolf links.

Mark

 

[cpml123]

I'm looking to get a lower gear on my vendetta V20. 36 teeth in back is just too much to turn over on some of the steeper hills around here ( 12- 13 percent). I've got a SRAM GX 10 speed rear derailleur. Found this quote on the analog cycles website.

"Wolftooth makes this little nugget of aluminum. In a nutshell, it allows you to increase how big of a cog your rear derailleur can shift to. It only works on certain derailleurs, but if you have an old school, sorta normal one, like a Shimano 105 from 2016, or a 9 speed Shimano Deore, or a 10 speed SRAM GX unit, this thing will work."

Sounds too good to be true. I want to change to 11-40 t. Sounds like for SRAM some "filing down of the tang" is required to make this fit properly... and there is the max capacity bug-a-boo.

Can anyone confirm this for me? Has anyone done this successfully?

Thanks
-Brad

I have S40 with Sram GX long cage 10 speed RD. It will work with 11-40 cassette. I didn't even use the roadlink, even though it might make it better. You just need a long B screw. I have Sunrace CSMX 11-40 10 speed cassette. The shifting is mostly ok. It's not as crisp as I would have liked, but it works.

Thanks,

Michael

 

[Winded Lowrider]

"Shifting is mostly ok" does not sound good.

Here is my current equation:

Praxis Works wide range 11-40 10-speed MTB cassette + wolf tooth road link + long b screw = ?XCV@%@$^!&!!! shifting?

Proability of success: Low

 

[cpml123]

When I said mostly ok, it's comparing to my previous road bike with Ultegra groupset where the shifting was very precise and effortless. This Sram setup most of the time shifts as intended but sometime it feels like it over shifts by 1/2 or something that I needed to click again so that it doesn't make noises. Or maybe it's out of adjustment.

 

[Greg S]

I have the Sram GX 11 speed long cage with an 11x40 cassette. I'm very happy with the shifting and I say that being rather compulsive about good shifting.

 

[Winded Lowrider]

Greg S:
Are you using a road link ( or similar) derailleur extender? What are your front rings?

Thanks
-Brad

 

[Beano]

FWIW I run a 50/34*11/40 with a SRAM Etap medium with a road link.

 

[Frito Bandito]

A lot of good information here, thanks guys.
I'm currently riding a DF 52/36 with an 11 speed 11/25 for all my flat rides. I occasionally spin out the 11/25 when there is a good tailwind. I am a bit concerned on how big I should go on the cassette for my V20. My 8 speed DF bike with 50/34 and 11/28 gets me up the 2500m in 90km steepest climb I regularly do. A 53/36 with an 11/32 might not give me the top end I need on the V20, so I am considering to run a 10/32 to give me enough top end, and bottom end for the hills. Do you guys think that would be enough? FWIW, I get up the 2500m without having to work very hard on that DF bike, but I don't know how difficult it is to climb on the v20 yet. Should I go with a long cage RD right off the bat just in case to give me a bit of wiggle room to go larger on the cassette?
TIA

 

[3bs]

@Frito Bandito i like my Wickwerks 53/34 rings in front 11/36 rear 2x10 sram force but a rival 10 speed brifter. the cage on the RD is said to be a medium, but it is long enough. i have tried a lot of different combinations, including an 11-40 in back. that is almost impossible to ride the 34/36 first gear is a gear i use out west. as far as a bigger front ring goes or a smaller small cog, it is only on long less extreme downhills and big tailwinds that sometime spin out.