Zwift - Cruzbike Activities (races and group rides)

[RojoRacing]

I haven't gotten one of those alerts since my first month on zwift. Doesn't seem odd though since my fitness never really changes, I just learn to dig deeper.

 

[ratz]

FTP 296 and climbing

 

[RojoRacing]

FTP 296 and climbing

That's pathetic, I remember back in the day when I was just a lad it being higher. Man it sucks getting old

 

[jond]

That's pathetic, I remember back in the day when I was just a lad it being higher. Man it sucks getting old

Oh there are some benefits though..........I think.........maybe........uhh empty nester hmmm aha I have it

Let me see.......um wisdom yeah for sure definitely well maybe

Here is a pearl. Rojo you are as young as you will ever get. Age is just a number

Lol wisdom masquerade

Your watts/kg is impressive. I have a cunning plan to match you

My surgery to remove various limbs is booked in

 

[RojoRacing]

I nice review on a new trainer option coming very soon. If I could complain about anything on its specs it would be 14% grade simulation limit instead of 20%. There are only two spots in zwift that exceed 14% and both spots are only 30-50 meters long so it's not a deal breaker by any means. Other than that I guess it is a bit noisier than both the Neo and Flux but nowhere near as whiny as the Kickr, besides my fan would still be louder. Everything else about the unit seems as good as the other top units but at a better price. I'd say it's comparable to the flux but Shane didn't break two of them strait off the bat and the measured watts seem to track better than any trainer to date regardless of price. Only time will tell whether or not the quality will last for months or years but I'd buy one if I needed a second unit.

 

[ratz]

I nice review on a new trainer option coming very soon.

Ray Maker has it projected as the trainer to beat for 2018

 

[RojoRacing]

I'm hoping Tacx work some magic with the Neo firmware and get the road feel closer to how Shane claims the Lemond trainer feels. I'm not saying the Neo doesn't feel like outside, honestly it's not something I even pay attention too but no reason not to strive for perfection.

I was the one who asked him to test the trainer response time to grade changes in zwift. We agreed all trainers suffer from this and all around 2 seconds with Shane feeling the Kickr being the quickest to respond. He and I think this will need further collaboration between Zwift and trainer manufacturers so hopefully they will continue to work on this.

I dropped my chain on that little staircase during last night's race which almost ruined my run to the finish. I just can't doing up that 17% staircase and still leave it in the big ring. I wish the trainers could take current speed into consideration and more smoothly apply resistance. If you hit that staircase at 35 mph you should be able to power up in the big ring.

 

[RojoRacing]

Stymied! I have had this problem for awhile but it's time to find a solution. Daisy rocks the heck out of the Neo and the front or rearof the bike moves to the point it is a game stopper during a race. She isn't gonna get any smoother pedaling so I need a way to anchor the darn thing. Any ideas?

:lol I worked long and hard for the perfect solution. PM me your email and I'll send you the detailed pics of what I did. Your basically going to need to mark and double side tape the unit to the ground. I have no idea how you guys have handled it thus far because I can feel a single degree of misalignment and it drives me crazy.

 

[ratz]

I was the one who asked him to test the trainer response time to grade changes in zwift. We agreed all trainers suffer from this and all around 2 seconds with Shane feeling the Kickr being the quickest to respond. He and I think this will need further collaboration between Zwift and trainer manufacturers so hopefully they will continue to work on this.

I dropped my chain on that little staircase during last night's race which almost ruined my run to the finish. I just can't doing up that 17% staircase and still leave it in the big ring. I wish the trainers could take current speed into consideration and more smoothly apply resistance. If you hit that staircase at 35 mph you should be able to power up in the big ring.

Those both sound like a software issue.

For the first one Zwift just needs a database that says; Trainer X suffers a delay of Y seconds. Calculate the speed of the virtual bike and distance to the next incline change; then signal the trainer Y seconds before you get there to change the resistance. You just have to do it. TrainerRoad finally got around to doing that for the starts of intervals and it's much much better. Granted their calculation is just Time based and not virtual speed, but Zwift is already do all those calculation for the graphics so they have it. Getting the database of "delays" that you trust is the big problem. If you really wanted to do it right you'd have to do a calibration ride for every trainer; and we all know no one would do it.

The second is one is a lot harder; that's going to mean calculating Power Required to Maintain Velocity on a grade. IF the rider's weight and the bike's weight are known; then you should be able to compute the rate of speed decay with zero power based on grade, speed, and altitude. That's just Newtoning physics...... easy so far. But the problem then is determining how much resistance to GIVE the user to be used to pedal against to input power; that going to be some relative resistance to the strength of the rider, and it has to increase as the bike slows. I bet you could put that on a Logarithmic curve; pick a speed at which FTP is required for a given grade to not fade. Then as you travel up and down the range of speeds resistance moves on the curve. You give enough power to maintain speed pedalling doesn't get hard; give too little and it steadily gets harder. That probably would be best done with a heuristic model; just build it; and then test it and tweak it until it feels right; much simplier than modeling the real world and every variable which would probably be beyond computing power at this.

 

[ratz]

Stymied! I have had this problem for awhile but it's time to find a solution. Daisy rocks the heck out of the Neo and the front or rearof the bike moves to the point it is a game stopper during a race. She isn't gonna get any smoother pedaling so I need a way to anchor the darn thing. Any ideas?

I bet the math and science guys on BROL could tell you ten way they think it should be solvable.

I say Gorilla tape.

 

[RojoRacing]

Those both sound like a software issue.

For the first one Zwift just needs a database that says; Trainer X suffers a delay of Y seconds. Calculate the speed of the virtual bike and distance to the next incline change; then signal the trainer Y seconds before you get there to change the resistance. You just have to do it. TrainerRoad finally got around to doing that for the starts of intervals and it's much much better. Granted their calculation is just Time based and not virtual speed, but Zwift is already do all those calculation for the graphics so they have it. Getting the database of "delays" that you trust is the big problem. If you really wanted to do it right you'd have to do a calibration ride for every trainer; and we all know no one would do it.

The second is one is a lot harder; that's going to mean calculating Power Required to Maintain Velocity on a grade. IF the rider's weight and the bike's weight are known; then you should be able to compute the rate of speed decay with zero power based on grade, speed, and altitude. That's just Newtoning physics...... easy so far. But the problem then is determining how much resistance to GIVE the user to be used to pedal against to input power; that going to be some relative resistance to the strength of the rider, and it has to increase as the bike slows. I bet you could put that on a Logarithmic curve; pick a speed at which FTP is required for a given grade to not fade. Then as you travel up and down the range of speeds resistance moves on the curve. You give enough power to maintain speed pedalling doesn't get hard; give too little and it steadily gets harder. That probably would be best done with a heuristic model; just build it; and then test it and tweak it until it feels right; much simplier than modeling the real world and every variable which would probably be beyond computing power at this.

Yup the first problem isn't hard to figure out but I'm not a program writer so I don't know how hard it is to mod the code.

The second problem is some serious premium mathematics we'll probably not see applied to a mass user product like zwift any time soon. I could see some college kids using zwift as a base and writing a program based on their small groups stats till it felt perfect to them. It you you got it half right with a more simple program curve it would feel 10 times better than now, then you'd make small progress with time.

 

[ratz]

Indeed... having the thought is step 1.

 

[RojoRacing]

I actually know a guy who is a programmer at Zwift through the Ninja 250 motorcycle forum I frequent. Seems like they keep those guys locked in the back room never to see the light of day as they program out bugs and expansions :lol

 

[jond]

Stymied! I have had this problem for awhile but it's time to find a solution. Daisy rocks the heck out of the Neo and the front or rearof the bike moves to the point it is a game stopper during a race. She isn't gonna get any smoother pedaling so I need a way to anchor the darn thing. Any ideas?

Go 1970s shagadellic with a carpet rug shag style.

 

[jond]

Those both sound like a software issue.

For the first one Zwift just needs a database that says; Trainer X suffers a delay of Y seconds. Calculate the speed of the virtual bike and distance to the next incline change; then signal the trainer Y seconds before you get there to change the resistance. You just have to do it. TrainerRoad finally got around to doing that for the starts of intervals and it's much much better. Granted their calculation is just Time based and not virtual speed, but Zwift is already do all those calculation for the graphics so they have it. Getting the database of "delays" that you trust is the big problem. If you really wanted to do it right you'd have to do a calibration ride for every trainer; and we all know no one would do it.

The second is one is a lot harder; that's going to mean calculating Power Required to Maintain Velocity on a grade. IF the rider's weight and the bike's weight are known; then you should be able to compute the rate of speed decay with zero power based on grade, speed, and altitude. That's just Newtoning physics...... easy so far. But the problem then is determining how much resistance to GIVE the user to be used to pedal against to input power; that going to be some relative resistance to the strength of the rider, and it has to increase as the bike slows. I bet you could put that on a Logarithmic curve; pick a speed at which FTP is required for a given grade to not fade. Then as you travel up and down the range of speeds resistance moves on the curve. You give enough power to maintain speed pedalling doesn't get hard; give too little and it steadily gets harder. That probably would be best done with a heuristic model; just build it; and then test it and tweak it until it feels right; much simplier than modeling the real world and every variable which would probably be beyond computing power at this.

Wow .awesome work.... I had to look up heuristic.....much abashed. Ratz u be the ducks nuts.

 

[RojoRacing]

Keeping the trainer from twisting under load is only half the equation. Keeping the wheel block and rear wheel from getting kicked or shifted around whist mounting and dismounting the bike is the other half.

 

[ratz]

Wow .awesome work.... I had to look up heuristic.....much abashed. Ratz u be the ducks nuts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic

Goes back to where I started in the computer field; we use to use heuristic models to find flaws in digital elevation model data (hand digitized data is full of problems) We use a lot of heuristic models to get the data goode enough to keep aircraft and cruise missiles from hitting the mountains. at 10ft error no problem. 100ft ooops.

 

[super slim]

What about bolting the trainer and rear wheel support to a 6' * 4' sheet of painted marine ply, and sit that on one or two exercise mats, so the floor, especially hand crafted hard wood floors, do not get damaged!

 

[RojoRacing]

Jason, this race has Rojo Racing all over it. BTW Innovation is the baddest of the teams in zwift.

12:40AM EDT

Innovation Cycling – Figure my 8 - 3.5 - 5.5 (18.5 mi / 29.8 km)

DESCRIPTION
The Innovation Cycling - Climb my Hill is 1 lap of the Waitopia Figure 8 circuit to work on standing climbs staying as a group at an estimate 4.2 - 5.0 watts per kg climbing pace. We will regroup at the top of each lap.The last lap will be a race from the base of the climb, all riders must be behind me at this point.We will all push and motivate each other whilst having a bit of banter. The aim of this is to ride together and hurt together, lift the level and go faster.The key with this is to moderate speed and stay with the group, stronger riders go on the front to pull up the back.
And remember this is a training ride aimed to push and make you pop, if you pop try and rejoin at the top otherwise come back and go further next time.
Pace Guidelines
• Warmup pace - 3.2• Flat pace 3.8 - 4.0

• Climbing Pace - 4.2 - 4.4We will aim to regroup at the top of the climbs.

Use the INC (Innovation Cycling) acronym in your Zwift name so that we can identify you.
GROUPS

Dude that's 9:40pm, I'm normally in bed by 9pm :lol
Is that race on the casters schedule?

 

[Tigerpaw]

Ok, the hunt is on to stop the trainer from moving. Starting simple and moving up. The first try is to put industrial velcro on the little rubber footies and the rubber mat. Why? It took one minute and I have the velcro. If this doesn't work but shows potential, will move to a big arse piece of velcro around both sides of the Neo and place massive velcro strips on the rubber mat. Why? Because it will take another minute. If this doesn't work I'll place nails through the little footies that will penetrate the rubber mat but not reach the floor. Why? I have the nails and an obsession to muck up my floor. If this doesn't work I'll ask BROL. Why?---------Gotcha-- No freaking chance, just pulling your leg on that one.

There is always liquid nails.