Cruzbike Time Trial Challenge 2020
- Thread starter LarryOz
- Start date
nobrakes
Well-Known Member
Forward vision is ok - I can lower the bars to get a decent view as it’s an adjustable tiller, but then it becomes slightly less aero. Bars as high and forward as possible gets the elbows out the wind. Just need some better cable management, or raise the seat slightly. I like it really flat though, it’s my most comfortable bike by quite some margin.
LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Hi All,
As Marco noted in this previous post- I have developed a method to allow anyone to change your route (or bike type) during the challenge. Ideally you should have a power meter - but minimally you must have a HR monitor.
The process:
Your current PB on your old route must have at least an avg power meter reading or an avg HR reading.
Ride your new route and match your power or HR to your old route PB numbers. (This can easily be done if you are using a Garmin (or similar head unit). You create a screen to show "lap" avg power and/or avg HR. Then you hit the lap button when you pass your start point of your new route and observe your avg power or HR as you are riding your TT. It should obviously be a pretty maximal effort since it was your PB. Modulate your effort during the ride in real time so that the avg power or HR value matches as close to your ol PB route as possible. (This is much easier with power - as HR is more variable, but should be pretty steady at your threshold power effort) The new route abg power or HR needs to be within 1 or 2% of your original PB to be accepted. If not, you will need to repeat it. (So I suggest starting early in the week in case you need to make multiple tries.)
I am obviously doing it this way to be fair to everyone in the challenge. (i.e. We can't allow someone to just ride a new route (or with a new bike) where their effort does not match their previous PB effort, as someone could just take it easy on a new route and then have more opportunities to make gains on a new lower effort PB)
Since the new PB technically matches their "old" PB - this would technically mean that they "tied" their old PB and would have a "0-sec" delta on the week they did this. (Note: Of the 3 people that have requested this I had originally told them that they must be treated as a "new-rider" and therefore will only receive 1 point that week.) Upon careful reflection of this, it seems very fair to allow them to be ranked as a "0-sec" delta since PB's would basically match exactly.
I will therefore enter Rob Llyod and Marco Rugs's new PB times like this for week #6, and also go back and recalculate "David Neilson's" new route from week #4 using this same method. (This will change the results slightly for anyone that did not meet their PB for that week. Everyone who "did not" make a PB in week #4 will basically lose 1 point is all). I will update the results sheets on this thread with the new data as well.
If anyone sees an inherent fault in doing it this way, please send me a private message with your reasoning and we can work through it.
Thanks,
Larry
I think I get it, you are basically saying, make your effort on the new ride = effort on original set up ride,
1) on the week you ride the new course, you are using that as a re-baseline, set zero secs as gain/loss arbitrarily, rank position accordingly
2) any time from re-baseline onwards is delta vs the new PB time, which was set with equivalent effort
I don't see a flaw in it, but it will be complicated for you restating weeks 4, 5, 6
1) on the week you ride the new course, you are using that as a re-baseline, set zero secs as gain/loss arbitrarily, rank position accordingly
2) any time from re-baseline onwards is delta vs the new PB time, which was set with equivalent effort
I don't see a flaw in it, but it will be complicated for you restating weeks 4, 5, 6
Bill Wightman
Well-Known Member
I love messing with this bike. The changes I have made are mostly aero but some practical. The front has a RENN 575 with a homemade upper wind block as well as a cheezy .5 mm cowling for the struts and brakes. The brakes sit out of the breeze in this cowling but I still have access. I put some carbon fiber sheets on the pedal arms and behind the big upper steering tube because it modeled faster with lower drag loads. There is semi-turbulent flow rising up behind the seat so I put a flat plate back there to redirect the flow aft and that reduced the drag more. All that foam on the plate is for my 2L water bladder. It is insulated and spring loaded with a bungy cord. I still have cold water after a long hot ride. I ride with the side aero bottles empty because it is a faster config than removing them and they would be useful on a very long unsupported ride. I have developed a muscle memory for the front disk wheel in gusts. I don't move left and right so much as just roll. I am a sailor so I have a spidey sense for wind. So that is the summer 12-mile TT configuration. TMI version.View attachment 9567
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LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Pretty amazing Bill - what kind of speed delta are you seeing with these mods? Do you notice any steering issues when big trucks pass?I love messing with this bike. The changes I have made are mostly aero but some practical. The front has a RENN 575 with a homemade upper wind block as well as a cheezy .5 mm cowling for the struts and brakes. The brakes sit out of the breeze in this cowling but I still have access. I put some carbon fiber sheets on the pedal arms and behind the big upper steering tube because it modeled faster with lower drag loads. There is semi-turbulent flow rising up behind the seat so I put a flat plate back there to redirect the flow aft and that reduced the drag more. All that foam on the plate is for my 2L water bladder. It is insulated and spring loaded with a bungy cord. I still have cold water after a long hot ride. I ride with the side aero bottles empty because it is a faster config than removing them and they would be useful on a very long unsupported ride. I have developed a muscle memory for the front disk wheel in gusts. I don't move left and right so much as just roll. I am a sailor so I have a spidey sense for wind. So that is the summer 12-mile TT configuration. TMI version. View attachment 9567
LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Thanks Dave - It will take a little extra time to re-calc weeks #4 & #5, but not too big of a deal. Actually all I have to do is re-sort week #4 and get the points and places correct again, then I think week #5 should recalc itself using final point counts from new week #4.
RojoRacing
Donut Powered Wise-guy
Some of us here are cutting our teeth and some of us are veterans of our own bodies. Some of us here are making great gains each week on account of not knowing anything of our potential, others had a good idea of what they could do and choose to ether inch into it or start right at the top and see if they good go further. I know what it is like to start anew and make gains each time, it feels good and keeps you coming back for more and you continue to learn, I too had to start from nothing. Here is a little view into what it is like as you inch closer to what your potential actually is. Whether you find it inspirational to keep pushing on, or you find it yourself fearful of what is to come, enjoy.
I love racing mtbs because I've very good at it and usually have a good chance of winning without going all out. On the other hand, I hesitate sometimes when trying to decide to race zwift because I know I'm incapable of holding back against others faster than myself, and trying that hard can be unpleasant. Do you know how they say it never gets easier you only get faster? well, that's not exactly true, not only does it not get easier, it actually gets harder as you learn how to endure more and more of that discomfort. My fiercest competition has always been myself and to pit myself against myself at my best week in and out can be hard to do because failing means failing against yourself which is a more bitter pill to swallow than losing to someone else. You know what your best effort was so you know you're at least that fast but what if you can't this week? The thing I find about this series each week is the numbers and effort become so clear and as we continue to refine ourselves to reach further into our potential, the path becomes more clouded with uncertainty. How much further can I go? Have I reached my limit or am I just handicapping myself by thinking I have?
So who else gets more nervous each week as they attempt to claw out incremental gains at the cost of maximal effort and a perfect state of mind to endure?
I love racing mtbs because I've very good at it and usually have a good chance of winning without going all out. On the other hand, I hesitate sometimes when trying to decide to race zwift because I know I'm incapable of holding back against others faster than myself, and trying that hard can be unpleasant. Do you know how they say it never gets easier you only get faster? well, that's not exactly true, not only does it not get easier, it actually gets harder as you learn how to endure more and more of that discomfort. My fiercest competition has always been myself and to pit myself against myself at my best week in and out can be hard to do because failing means failing against yourself which is a more bitter pill to swallow than losing to someone else. You know what your best effort was so you know you're at least that fast but what if you can't this week? The thing I find about this series each week is the numbers and effort become so clear and as we continue to refine ourselves to reach further into our potential, the path becomes more clouded with uncertainty. How much further can I go? Have I reached my limit or am I just handicapping myself by thinking I have?
So who else gets more nervous each week as they attempt to claw out incremental gains at the cost of maximal effort and a perfect state of mind to endure?
Bill Wightman
Well-Known Member
It is hard to really know without a controlled environment. A couple years ago I started riding this bike with a 20 mph group back a ways in the wind and that felt like the same power level that I was used to on a DF for 3.5 hours at a ride average power of 150 watts, not a lot of power. Now I am aching to just blow past them all, especially in a strong headwind but the groups are so fun and provide a full lane of safety on some hostile roads. The mixed effect of getting stronger and aero mods is about +3-4 mph at this low cruising power. The 23 mph groups are easy now. Intermittently holding 23-24 mph is what I was doing on Wed nights for 3 hours before this TT started again. I have limited power as you can tell from the power to weight ratio, so these are hacks for more speed with modest power. This TT series shows that power can be improved on, old guys can get stronger...it seems. One thing I enjoy is riding in a group and missing a light at the back of the group. I wait for the light to change then pick up the speed to 26 (that would be a 6-mile TT speed for me) and go catch the group. They never get away. The aero mods let you hang out at 27 mph for a couple miles without redlining (which is 195-200 bpm when I start feeling ill).
Regarding the trucks passing, I have 46 cm handlebars and nearly straight arms into the shoulder so any gusting tends to move the whole bike and not the front wheel too much. But actually you can sense a pressure wave with the body and react as it is hitting the bike. It sounds like woo woo but it is just a body sensation/reaction similar to the learned balance we have for this or any other bike, just with respect to the wind. I think that sense has come from racing small sailboats. The pressure wave is exaggerated with big box trucks because of the positive pulse from the front immediately followed by the suction at the back. It is best to rigidize temporarily and under-react to avoid getting pulled into traffic on the suction side.
On a different note, I was watching one of Marco Ruga's videos and he was doing a yarn-on-a-stick turbulence study where it was clearly evident that there is wasted flow projecting upward behind the shoulders and neck. That is why I sized out a plate behind the head rest, but based on CFD analysis. The sizing is persnickety. Too long or too wide or wrong angle make a difference. Probably a small laminar flow wing would be best but this is hobby level stuff. I think I exceeded my character limit...
benphyr
Guru-me-not
There is no limit to the character you display in your posts.
What about the “sharp” edges to the bottom of the carbon fibre seat pan and seat back? Do they affect aerodynamics?
My very favourite part of your pictures came stock - that lightning fast sizzling blue.
Bill Wightman
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is a great color. By character limit I meant I was rambling on too much. The downward angled lip must be for seat pan rigidity and there is very little practical way to make it more aero without a lot of hassle. Probably getting skinny and wearing a speedsuit would be a better investment. I am working on finishing a box of Cheez-Its crackers so skinny may take a while.
That is the great thing about TT, you can compete against the other racers or you can compete against yourself. This format is great for just seeing exactly what you can do. Get a good time one week, but think you fluffed a gear change, took a wrong line on a corner, think you can get a smidge more speed on one section, so go out the next week and push harder, and then harder again. I know how hard i pushed on Saturday, I can still feel it in my legs. You learn the value of recovery as you age!
I was last doing club TTs about ten years ago, but these last two summers have been great fun and I'm definitely learning a lot about how much I can still push myself on a bike. Plus this hard summer work pays off in those winter audaxes as well
I was last doing club TTs about ten years ago, but these last two summers have been great fun and I'm definitely learning a lot about how much I can still push myself on a bike. Plus this hard summer work pays off in those winter audaxes as well
Managed to eke out a PB today. The wind was east at 4 -6 kts, meaning I had headwinds for the two return legs. My course is two laps around a 6.1 mile course. After watching other's videos, I feel very fortunate that I can pedal seven miles out and have a flat course with virtually no traffic or intersections.
I am using a cheap camera that mounts to my cycling glasses frame. This is my first attempt with video. I thought it would be fun to see the mirror, computer and stopwatch in the video. Things did not work out that way. I guess I am using more eye movement that head tilt/rotation to look in the mirror and at the computer. My assumption that the camera would pick up what ever I was looking at was wrong. I had no idea I was such a "bobble head" while cycling. Do not watch if you get sea sick. I only posted one lap, because the second lap is the same, just slower (and it has a few NSFW words when I got too slow.)
I will try tilting the camera downward for the next TT. If that is a flop, will try mounting it over my shoulder. I suppose I could mount it on the FD mount and face it backwards so everyone can watch me as I gasp and pant my way around the course. (Not likely!)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jdSEl3OLFbgaKdDKNbOBBFTDfHwvYpne/view?usp=sharing
I am using a cheap camera that mounts to my cycling glasses frame. This is my first attempt with video. I thought it would be fun to see the mirror, computer and stopwatch in the video. Things did not work out that way. I guess I am using more eye movement that head tilt/rotation to look in the mirror and at the computer. My assumption that the camera would pick up what ever I was looking at was wrong. I had no idea I was such a "bobble head" while cycling. Do not watch if you get sea sick. I only posted one lap, because the second lap is the same, just slower (and it has a few NSFW words when I got too slow.)
I will try tilting the camera downward for the next TT. If that is a flop, will try mounting it over my shoulder. I suppose I could mount it on the FD mount and face it backwards so everyone can watch me as I gasp and pant my way around the course. (Not likely!)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jdSEl3OLFbgaKdDKNbOBBFTDfHwvYpne/view?usp=sharing
Rob Lloyd
Well-Known Member
Marco - I would like to see how you mounted the camera for this view. I've been wanting a view like this for my bike, but haven't figured out the mounting...
ccooper
Active Member
I'm not sure that nervous is the right word. Maybe dread. I know that if I'm to be able to increase the PB it's going to be painful. I find myself less and less interested in pain as the years go on.
The other thing I have learned is that it's more important to be riding consistently than it is to experience peaks and valleys. The only way I'm going to be able to do that is for the rides to be fun. When you dread doing something you will soon stop doing it. That's why I like Zwift, because the racing with competitors is fun and I still get a good workout. For this TT series I'll be doing efforts that are sub-maximal. They're still quite hard, but I finish the ride knowing there is still some improvement possible, though at a high cost in terms of effort.
This last week I was 4 watts under my best of 3 weeks ago. I can live with that because the result of trying to blast through my PB 2 weeks ago was failing and not finishing the ride, and that feels worse than missing by a few watts.
benphyr
Guru-me-not
That’s some nice scenery you are riding through. That’s one of the reasons I would usually ride ‘bents, it aims our eyes at the scenery instead of the asphalt. Even on a time trial I see much of the scenery.
markciccio
Active Member
LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Well said Dave - It is really amazing how hard you can push yourself! It has taken me about a month to remember how to push myself have again. Stopping my riding 160 miles a day and staring on High Intensity workouts has also helped. I came dangerously close to 4 W/Kg this morning riding the Lollipop course on Zwift just for fun. Now I need to figure out how to go that hard out on the road.
ccf
Guru
A Tale of Two Rides - "It was the best of times (Week 5), it was the worst of times (Week 6)". It felt like my legs were spinning in molasses. And the level of ache and pain required to hold the Week 5 power level felt like 80 more watts. To counter the nervousness and dread, I like to try new tactics to see if I can learn something. This past week I learned that two days isn't enough time for me to recover from and all-out effort (duh!).
