Farther, Faster, Fitter, Fun - (4F - The unofficial Cruzbike training team and support group)

[ratz]

I have been busy working on new training plans combining Sweet spot base work with longer milage schedule for those aspiring to participate in Ultra events. With some acceptance that people have very little free time Mon-Friday. I was going to introduce them for Jan 1 but it appears we have a lot of people targeting Sebring. In light of that I'm going to release the plans and include a special Sebring version.

These are direct modification of the Trainer Rode Sweet Spot Base Plans but modified for the Utlra Cycling focus events. If you are snow/indoor training bound then you can start the Sebring plan on Monday and be assured of being in relatively good shape for the event. The Mon - Friday time commitment is low with the big rides being on the weekend.

These are base "zero" to "hero' plans

Low Volume target the Century+ riders
Mid Volume targets the fast Century riders and the 12 hour riders
High Volume targets the 24 hour riders

Mid and High assume training for the non-drafting events.
All 3 plans are 12 weeks broken into 2, 6 week blocks

The Sebring plan is specific to those people that need to start now and is timed with that in mind.

Plans: Updated to final version 12/28/2016

 

[ratz]

what kind of interactive riding sessions are going on and or what does it take to start some. Do things like Zwift allow us to form virtual group rides?

Start here: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/11/trainer-apps-guide.html

Zwift is very popular but quickly devolves into junk mileage competitions, I don't consider that training but if it's the only thing that gets you on a trainer it's far better than being on the couch. Doing Zwifter-Road or using Zwifts training plans is a more effect way to be "in - world" and train.....

Best bet for train and fun:

• Do the short 1 hour interval stuff Mon-Fri stuff in either Trainer Road; CycleOps, or Zwift Trainer mode.
• Then for the mega mileage stuff play with Zwift group rides or a host of the other similar video ride stuff life Road Grand Tours. Those mega milage rides don't need that much structure to be effective.
• If you are in the land of good weather then do the long stuff outdoors but you do have add an hour to account for coasting.

 

[CruzLike]

Ratz
Is there a typo in the Ultra Sweet Sebring spread sheet? No ride on Jan 13th and a short ride on the 15th. These two items don't follow an escalating pattern of training. What does the color code mean?

 

[RojoRacing]

Start here: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/11/trainer-apps-guide.html

Zwift is very popular but quickly devolves into junk mileage competitions, I don't consider that training but if it's the only thing that gets you on a trainer it's far better than being on the couch. Doing Zwifter-Road or using Zwifts training plans is a more effect way to be "in - world" and train.....

Best bet for train and fun:

• Do the short 1 hour interval stuff Mon-Fri stuff in either Trainer Road; CycleOps, or Zwift Trainer mode.
• Then for the mega mileage stuff play with Zwift group rides or a host of the other similar video ride stuff life Road Grand Tours. Those mega milage rides don't need that much structure to be effective.
• If you are in the land of good weather then do the long stuff outdoors but you do have add an hour to account for coasting.

What are you talking about, the type of riding that zwift devolves into is basically the exact kind of riding that got me to where I am now

Racing from light poll to stop sign everyday

I'm in the middle of my first post surgery session on zwift right now. Best of luck to everyone in the style of training they choose this winter.

 

[HC203]

I used Zwift for a bit last winter with my upright, did not have a power meter/smart trainer at the time so power was estimated. They did have structured workouts, but I'm finding Trainer Road paired with the Kickr and Game of Thrones works pretty well, especially on these low HR base rides.

I'll take a look at the Sebring plan as I am signed up for the 12. MY outside rides are generally on a packed gravel trail, slight grade in one direction, but I generally don't coast so my ride times are same as plan.

 

[ratz]

Ratz
Is there a typo in the Ultra Sweet Sebring spread sheet? No ride on Jan 13th and a short ride on the 15th. These two items don't follow an escalating pattern of training. What does the color code mean?

Mortals need recover weeks. 9 weeks is too long to go without 1; Anyone that makes all those rides will be screaming for a break so they can absorb and adapt to the input.

Edit: (inserting details I was too tired to type last night) a normal sweet-spot (see the other sheets; is 6 weeks with 5 hard; 1 recover, repeat) for traditional 12 week base. 12 week works great for people that can do base Dec, Jan, Feb; follow by Build in Mar, Apr. (assumes northern hemispheres season, upside down dwellers can revers it) With Sebring being so blasted early (wish that thing was in march) a slightly different approach is need. So over here we took Oct off after finishing the out door riding season in Sept. November we did our Strength training 6 week plan. That leaves only 9 weeks to do base before Sebring. So instead of planning a 12 week base and showing up with a lot of fatigue I crafted the 9 week plans as follows:

• 4 weeks of base, 1 week recover, 3 weeks base, 1 week mini "B" event taper.
• FTP base build is Tueday,Thursday
• Strength Endurance is Wednesday, Saturday
• Endurance is Sunday
• Friday is filler TSS to maintain progression and provide skippable extra recovery.

Scaled for FTP this full regime is Larry Levels of TSS, I fully expect normal people to have to start skipping some yellow days by week 6 as the stress mounts. IF you rode only the green rides you'd be doing great.

Those not doing Sebring and not in there first time around training (already been through the MAF cycle would do great on the Low and Medium full plans). I actually crafted these as the plans for people to follow immediately after the MAF aerobic repair stuff.

 

[DavidCH]

add an hour to account for coasting.

LOL. Cycling for 90 minutes is nothing like cycling for 180 minutes... I am out today to buy some compression socks. I also seemed to have overstretched my left leg hamstrings going up a ramp at 26mph... Just feel great at the moment... the day after is a different story.

 

[ratz]

What are you talking about, the type of riding that zwift devolves into is basically the exact kind of riding that got me to where I am now

Racing from light poll to stop sign everyday

I'm in the middle of my first post surgery session on zwift right now. Best of luck to everyone in the style of training they choose this winter.

Great to hear you are back on that bike and at least able to use Zwift. That racing style stuff works good when you are the Fast guy that wins Being the slow guy at the back that gives up and coasts to the sign dejected doesn't get quiet as much benefit

They finally released the iOS app so now it's compatible with our training room so I might play with it.

 

[ratz]

A quick global up date to those doing the 4f stuff. I am way over due with the individualized reports, my apologies, The "profit center" aka work, has been super busy and the holiday prep has been consuming me. Meanwhile The Mallet has been busy installing the a new hardwood floor not building bike.

But all is not lost, I have built some new dashboards that allow me to run reports a lot faster (been doing Training Peaks classes while riding the trainer to get faster at using the software). I can now add to participant in 5 minutes versus 1 hour. So I should have individual reports and soon.

Those in MAF phase stay the course. Those that have finished MAF or have finish their Strength phase should proceed to "Ultra Sweet" Low or Mid Volume. Match the volume of the plan to the one you are coming off of. By the time anyone finishes that phase I will have the Build stuff ready in time for March.

Oh and the best news is the software I'm using can now accurately predict your FTP from your riding history So soon you be able to skip those dread FTP tests if you don't like them. All my testers have been scoring within 1-2 watts of the softwares predictions.

Anyone that is planning to join in the program in January I encourage you to start at the end of December to debug you trainer and software. So far most participants are taking about 1-2 weeks to get comfortable using the software and trainer effectively.

 

[trapdoor2]

My V20 has been so good this year that Santa is bringing it a Kickr Snap. Should be here next week. I've been reviewing all the 4f stuff, etc.

 

[RojoRacing]

Great to hear you are back on that bike and at least able to use Zwift. That racing style stuff works good when you are the Fast guy that wins Being the slow guy at the back that gives up and coasts to the sign dejected doesn't get quiet as much benefit

They finally released the iOS app so now it's compatible with our training room so I might play with it.

i think i may give the kiss america 100k race a shot at 6:15am pct then just spin around for awhile a rack up some extra elevation on my way to grabbing that tron bike that looks so cool. the 100k race sounds very intimidating with me squarely on the cusp up both the a-b class with a 4.0w/kg
if you give it a shot and see me rolling around afterwards send me a text and i'll look for you. i tried joining a freind of mine today but it drops you at their location with a standing start so by the time your up to speed they are 10 seconds ahead with you trying to chase them down :lol nothing like starting a casual ride with a friend with an all out sprint effort.

 

[LarryOz]

Oh and the best news is the software I'm using can now accurately predict your FTP from your riding history So soon you be able to skip those dread FTP tests if you don't like them.

What: who dreads an FTP test? I thought everyone looks forward to them as much as I do!
Well - if you do just "love" to test your FTP (like me), and you "really" want to know what your "true" 1 hour max power is, write or run a program like this:

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2440577
https://www.strava.com/activities/414670163/analysis/5195/5916

This was from last year for me:
But basically take your last FTP (or your best guess for what it is), and create a 90 minute ramp; starting at about 80% of your FTP value and ending the ramp at 120% of your FTP.
Chances are slim (if you have your FTP "guess" pretty close) is that you will not be able to finish off the 90 minute ramp because if you do, then you've just increased your FTP by 10%.
I also find that when I am warmed up decently that I can slowly increase my power (1 watts every 70-80 sec) without even noticing it until it gets pretty well past my actual FTP.
Then it's "suffer-time" until you just can't go any longer.
But it is amazing how long you can actually go if you have some motivational music and/or video of a race or steep mountain climb to watch while you are going at it!
Keep egging yourself on - until you just can't go any longer.
Then average the last 60 minutes you rode - That is your new "real" 1 hour FTP - pretty easy! - well maybe not easy - but pretty accurate if you feel and are well rested before you start.
In my example from last year, my estimated FTP was 245, but as you can see I went all the way up to about 290watts after 90 minutes of riding and ramping up. I ended up with an FTP of around 255, which was an increase of my estimate by about 10watts.
What a great workout too! You will definitely feel like you have done something when you get off the bike! (If you can get off the bike - but the nice thing about a Cruzbike, if you can't, you can just relax and take a well deserved nap!)
I plan on doing this ramp FTP test again this Tuesday. It will be interesting to see how it compares to a year ago.

 

[RojoRacing]

I did that 100km race on zwift this morning and damn did that hurt. 15 miles in i got dropped from the lead pack on one of the substantial climbs before forming a small chase group of about 6 riders. at one point i guess i dropped my connection and when it sorted itself out i was back 8 seconds. i was able to bridge but when our group of 4 attacked up the next climb i was still gassed from my bridging effort and fell off. it was a lonely final 8 miles to the finish but i'm glad i didn't quite half way through like i wanted to on several occations. zwift takes your best 20 min effort during a ride/race and calculates your ftp which is good for someone like me who only gives 100% during a race. my new ftp is 278 so with my 155 lb weight that puts my ftp at 3.95w/kg which is pretty damn close to Larry. Larry should come do a zwift race with me, just sub it in for one of your interval days.

i can't remember the last time i rode that hard for 150 mins

 

[LarryOz]

Larry should come do a zwift race with me, just sub it in for one of your interval days.

Jason, I'll see what I can do.
I was part of the Beta testing for Zwift and one thing that I remember was that they did not have a recumbent bike for me to "build" in the Zwift world.
Maybe that has changed, but I sincerely doubt it!
So, I was never able to build a bike that could even come close to going as fast on the wattage that I did in the real world.
I'm not sure if they changed anything in how your build your avatar and your bike, but it would make sense that given the choice, most everyone would probably build the fastest Zwift bike they could build, and therefore go as fast as possible on their given avatar. Then the only difference would come in as to what each person put down for their weight. If someone has big watts just because they weigh 100KG, then could say they weight less and therefore go much faster. I doubt if there is anyway to really hold anyone accountable to that.
In any case, I'll take a look and see about trying it out.
Either way, it would only be on a free trial at this point, as I'm really trying to watch my monthly obligations.

 

[RojoRacing]

no recumbents in zwift but you have to think even if there was they would most likely not be allowed in most the races similar to the zwift TT bike. just enter your correct weight and height and don't worry about whether other people are potentially working the system to cheat. also who cares if when rolling down a flat road in zwift at 200 watts nets you 3 mph less than you Vendetta in real life, it's just a game and all that matters is if you can find a challenge within it. i still have no interest in structured indoor training so outside of these virtual races zwift doesn't hold much meaning.

 

[RojoRacing]

@LarryOz your a strava premium member right? you should have zwift for free till Jan 1 after linking the two together

if anyone tries to find me on zwift don't look for Jason Perez, I now go by the alias ". BWAHAHA" which appears as "..BWAHAHA" in game. Don't ask why, just assume I find some level of humor in it.

oh yeah I'm also from the Isle of Man this week but I'm thinking Mexico next week since I have yet to see a single mexican flag on here yet

 

[LarryOz]

no recumbents in zwift

Yes - but visually it would be soooooo cool to see one!
I've created an account and will play with it some - but based on you 100K ride from yesterday you would kill me tight now.
I took nearly 6 weeks off in Oct & Nov (need to do that I here when you are old and gray like me!) and Bob says my FTP is about 240 right now.
...
Another thing - I starting riding Cruzbikes because I could not ride uprights without my neck, butt, and wrists hurting a lot!
I'm kind of worried about subjecting myself and my avatar to that on Zwift. I don't want to hurt myself for Sebring!

 

[RojoRacing]

Are you riding on a bufalo bike? Seriously I've heard it is the fastest choice.

working on getting the tron bike between races which requires you to select the everesting challenge and then climb a total of 50,000 meters. heard in the latest zwift update the tron bike is now king by only a few seconds and the buffalo bike had it's actual weight corrected in game so now it's the slowest.

 

[RojoRacing]

Yes - but visually it would be soooooo cool to see one!
I've created an account and will play with it some - but based on you 100K ride from yesterday you would kill me tight now.
I took nearly 6 weeks off in Oct & Nov (need to do that I here when you are old and gray like me!) and Bob says my FTP is about 240 right now.
...
Another thing - I starting riding Cruzbikes because I could not ride uprights without my neck, butt, and wrists hurting a lot!
I'm kind of worried about subjecting myself and my avatar to that on Zwift. I don't want to hurt myself for Sebring!

we have the secret advantage of laying down in comfort while everyone else is suffering on their uprights, and they are none the wiser. don't worry about your avatar the hear they are tough as nails and have the skills to throw 25mph u turns without ever crashing.

 

[RojoRacing]

I hope to challenge Jason once the trainers come in the LBS. There is one caveat though. He's going to hvae to set his weight to 300 pounds for a handicap

i will totally do that and then take you to the top of watopia