ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Yes that is probably the case; readout should be more stable
Farther, Faster, Fitter, Fun - (4F - The unofficial Cruzbike training team and support group)
- Thread starter ratz
- Start date
Yes that is probably the case; readout should be more stable
BentSk8r
Member
Ok...have made the commitment to go back to square one and do this right. After listening to the noise comparisons by dcrainmaker I decided that the Kickr was just going to be too noisy and have opted for the Cycleops Hammer which claims to produce 64 dB at 20 mph. I like the form factor and its claimed ability to adapt to varying fork widths too. The downside is that it probably won't show up until sometime in January but this is a long term project and I don't want to do this wrong so I'm taking my time and doing the homework. I do better with clear understanding of why I am doing something so the information and links available from the tribe are invaluable...thanks all!
I have a Garmin 500 with separate cadence, HR and separate speed (which I can't yet get to pair) sensors. Do I need a BT HR sensor to make this training work? Or can the data be combined after a ride.
To get everything running via the laptop I am assuming that I would need an ANT+ stick to get HR from the Garmin strap or a BT strap.
To run the app on my Google Pixel phone all sensors would have to be BT?
The Hammer doesn't collect cadence. I can obviously obtain it from the Garmin but is this a parameter of any value to collect into TrainingRoad?
I'm sure in time this will all become painfully obvious but any help getting set up ahead of time is most appreciated.
My current goals are weight loss initially and the Century program, later, and then...???
Ratz, are there any TrainerRoad codes available?
I have a Garmin 500 with separate cadence, HR and separate speed (which I can't yet get to pair) sensors. Do I need a BT HR sensor to make this training work? Or can the data be combined after a ride.
To get everything running via the laptop I am assuming that I would need an ANT+ stick to get HR from the Garmin strap or a BT strap.
To run the app on my Google Pixel phone all sensors would have to be BT?
The Hammer doesn't collect cadence. I can obviously obtain it from the Garmin but is this a parameter of any value to collect into TrainingRoad?
I'm sure in time this will all become painfully obvious but any help getting set up ahead of time is most appreciated.
My current goals are weight loss initially and the Century program, later, and then...???
Ratz, are there any TrainerRoad codes available?
trapdoor2
Zen MBB Master
I gave the Kickr Snap the acid test last night. I cranked it up at 9:30pm while Miz Diane was watching her favorite TV show. Usually, a moderate disturbance in the force will bring her out with a shut-it-down writ.
Nothing happened.
Afterwards, I queried her about the noise levels and she opined how it was a little annoying but otherwise OK.
Now normally, I would immediately call 911 and report a deafness emergency (or at least ask her to hold her hands up and grin...to check for a stroke). However, I was very surprised (and pleased) to find the Snap to be much quieter in person than I expected.
1happyreader
zen/child method
Does the Phone have Ant+, if not then a Ant+ dongle or else its bluetooth for you.
But you said you had a garmin head unit ? what kind of sensors are you running now ?
Errr rather trying to pair.
later,,, bye
BentSk8r
Member
From what I can determine the Pixel doesn't support ANT+. I have the new accelerometer based cadence and speed sensors. The cadence works fine but the speed sensor doesn't pair though after the new firmware update it looks as if it should. It's not really critical as I just use the GPS for speed anyway.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
If using a Laptop and ANT+ dongle works best; and you can use ANT+ Sensors.
The built in BT on most PC's rarely works and you would need a BT dongle so not worth it.
Mac's work find with the build int BT.
Android and iOS work well with BT.
Yes I have codes, and no you can't combine the data afterwards.
This is why we recomend at least a 2-3 days shake down on your tech before getting too serious.
The built in BT on most PC's rarely works and you would need a BT dongle so not worth it.
Mac's work find with the build int BT.
Android and iOS work well with BT.
Yes I have codes, and no you can't combine the data afterwards.
This is why we recomend at least a 2-3 days shake down on your tech before getting too serious.
trapdoor2
Zen MBB Master
Anybody use a Wahoo speed sensor? I picked one up this week and I'm trying to:
- Figure out how to strap it on the hub...getting my fingers/hands in between the spokes and then pulling/stretching the strap...seems impossible. I'll probably have to use my hominid tool-building skills on the local coat-hanger herd.
- Figure out which wheel to use it on. It is designed to fit a DF's front hub (which is smaller in diameter than the rear). As I'm in 'trainer' mode right now, I've been thinking about putting it on the V20's front hub...but it will bear some 'adaption' to fit that application.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
We run them on the front hubs and they are indeed a bear to mount so much so that I have one per wheel and don't move them. They have to be on the front no matter what you'll never pick the signal from the rear wheel on the road through your body. Now that said, do you need one with the Kickr Snap; I was under the impression that it had it's own built in speed sensor in the computer unit.
CruzLike
Guru
Hi Ratz
I'm on the Ultra Sweet training program. Previously I have been on Traditional Base plan on TR. The rides were laid out on a calendar. I wanted to assign a different ride for today's ride (friday) but is was a day off on my current active base plan. I decided to stop the active training plan. So then I would be able to setup a rider specified plan. I could not find a "blank" calendar to seed the days with rides from the Ultra plan. I thought this would be helpful. As I'm writing this I wonder, is this necessary? Will the world still continue if I'm not in a plan and picking my days and rides off a printout?
trapdoor2
Zen MBB Master
Yes, the Snap has its own speed output. No problem there.
I wanted the sensor for road work...if the roads here ever warm up past 40F without bringing the rain.
The Wahoo app uses GPS speed which is ok...but the lag time from the GPS is substantial. I'm told the sensor is pretty close to real-time.I don't think the sensor's rubber-band mount will stretch far enough to encompass the front hub on the V20. What did you do to solve that? I was thinking of just using some ty-wraps.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Yes, the Snap has its own speed output. No problem there.
I wanted the sensor for road work...if the roads here ever warm up past 40F without bringing the rain.
I don't think the sensor's rubber-band mount will stretch far enough to encompass the front hub on the V20. What did you do to solve that? I was thinking of just using some ty-wraps.
It's stretchier than you think, my hands are just small enough to get it mounted.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Yes there is no issue not having a "picked plan" until 4 months ago that calendar didn't even exist. What you can do it enter your plan into Training peaks or you can use use paper. We have ours hanging on the wall in the house as a print out.
trapdoor2
Zen MBB Master
I gave it a "full elastic limit" stretch before I tried it the first time. All I can do is give it a go. My hands are XL, so while I'm going to take the wheel off and try again, I suspect I'll need to sacrifice a coat hanger to the tool gods. There may be blood...but no chickens will be involved...yet.
trapdoor2
Zen MBB Master
OK, speed do-hickey installed. Coat hanger sacrifice, no blood. The rubber-band indeed goes around the FWD hub...but the Wahoo Speed sensor is too wide to fit cleanly on the hub...tilted a bit. I think it will work.
Problem #2: I tried the "8 min test" in Trainer Road. Fail. I have no idea what the problem is. I messed around with the Wahoo app for a while and then did a 'spin down'. No problem there. Loaded the 8min test from TR and started pedaling...but it doesn't start smoothly. I start pedaling and as soon as TR finishes its count down, the wattage target goes to 89 and the trainer applies the brakes seemingly randomly. I'm going from full grunt to free spin and then back. After about a minute of this (I'm in my lowest gearing combination), I am able to get the cadence above 70 and it starts to smooth out a little. Then it starts feeling herky-jerky again. By the time I got to the first ramp from "warmup", I'm worn out from fighting the damn thing.
I've got to be doing something wrong (I have zero previous experience with trainers). I've run the Wahoo Utility app, all the firmware is up to date. I checked tire pressure and I did successful spin-downs in both Wahoo and TR. I'm trying to match the power target and keep my cadence around 80rpm...and then keep my HR under my MAF (which is 120). Heck, I hit 120 before I got to the first ramp. Yesterday, using the Wahoo app, I set my target for 150w and rode (smoothly) 15min without busting 130bpm.
Problem #2: I tried the "8 min test" in Trainer Road. Fail. I have no idea what the problem is. I messed around with the Wahoo app for a while and then did a 'spin down'. No problem there. Loaded the 8min test from TR and started pedaling...but it doesn't start smoothly. I start pedaling and as soon as TR finishes its count down, the wattage target goes to 89 and the trainer applies the brakes seemingly randomly. I'm going from full grunt to free spin and then back. After about a minute of this (I'm in my lowest gearing combination), I am able to get the cadence above 70 and it starts to smooth out a little. Then it starts feeling herky-jerky again. By the time I got to the first ramp from "warmup", I'm worn out from fighting the damn thing.
I've got to be doing something wrong (I have zero previous experience with trainers). I've run the Wahoo Utility app, all the firmware is up to date. I checked tire pressure and I did successful spin-downs in both Wahoo and TR. I'm trying to match the power target and keep my cadence around 80rpm...and then keep my HR under my MAF (which is 120). Heck, I hit 120 before I got to the first ramp. Yesterday, using the Wahoo app, I set my target for 150w and rode (smoothly) 15min without busting 130bpm.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
During the FTP test ignore HR it going to go through the ceiling and it's suppose to. The tests are a bit funny; they start in ERG mode but then they switch to slope mode during the test. IF this didn't happen you'd never be able to test and FTP increase. But they tend to go to slope mode 3 which I find doesn't match the way most of us have our recumbent bikes geared. Best bet is to practice using free ride. While doing that you can learn to "on the fly" switch between ERG and Slope/Standard mode; as well as changing the slope level on the fly. When I FTP test I change the slope mode to "1" down from "3" having done this a lot now it's really easy.
Now back to the other important thing to understand. ERG mode force you to hold a wattage; and watts = force / velocity. So the slower you pedal the harder it gets to pedal as the Kickr ramps up the resistance to force you to maintain the wattage. For the most part you have to keep your cadence above 75rpm and really the sweet spot is 85-105rpm if you spin in that range you'll find it is much easier to maintain than 70rpm. That's normal and it should teach a lot about what type of muscle use you get from each type of RPM. Above 85watts pedaling below 60rpm is pretty much impossible in ERG mode.
Lastly based on the above from the device screen make sure that when you pedal that Trainer road is actually picking up you power output; if it's picking up zero output it will be a really short ride of extreme difficulty.
LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Another strange thing that happens in TR sometimes is that it gets confused as to what mode it is in.
If you are definitely in ERF mode and the power you are outputting does not match what the ERG says, then toggle over to Standard or Resistant for a minute and then back to ERG.
This sometimes helps get it back in sync.
.. or ..
If you are using an external power feed and letting it control the KICKR, and you power feed is all over the place (do to slow RPM and the KICKR trying to adjust on the other end for the wide swings), this could also affect what is going on and what you are experiencing.
Try not using that feature and just use the power the KICKR is
These are usually a pretty rare occurrences however - and I would try what Ratz detailed above first.
trapdoor2
Zen MBB Master
Thanks Ratz, I knew it had to be something I wasn’t doing properly. It appears to be picking up my power output. Target and actual…I did a reasonable job of matching them up until it went into slope mode, I fell below 70rpm cadence…and it went sideways.
I don’t understand, “ignore HR”. I’m an overweight 60-yr old (with no known cardiac issues). I know I start mouth-breathing at >160bpm and blow up around 180bpm. I’m going to have to somehow train just to be able to maintain a cadence of above 80rpm. I’m a masher, I only do 80+ when I have an aggressive climb…and that is over a space of maybe a minute or two, not an hour. I think I have some work to do!
My set-up currently is an Android tablet (and/or my Android phone). It appears that some of the controls in TR which are available on the PC version (I'm Windows based on my PC) are not available in the Android version. All I see on the Android version is a little slope icon with 100% next to it. I can tap it and change the percentage...I don't know what that does!
If I get a chance tonight, I'll try moving my laptop over to the bike and using it.
[rant] It seems insane to me to sell a device and/or app. with no basic (I mean, “kindergarten” or "Fisher Price" level) introduction. Once I hooked up the Kickr, I turned on the Wahoo app and stared at it. Now what? I paired all the devices pretty easily but it took me forever to figure out that I had to swipe the screen several times to find the Kickr control panel…and then I simply jacked around with it while I pedaled until I found something I could ride. I simply don't know what I'm doing and I feel like I'm having to dig and pry and chisel any sort of basic info out of these apps/websites.
Same thing with Trainer Road: open the app, “Hi! Take this test.” No idea what they’re talking about, no idea what those colored lines on the graph mean, no “start here, you dummy”, nothing. I had to dig aggressively thru the website just to find out what the colored lines indicated. “Oh, the red line is my heartrate…” (which is peaking because I’m pissed at the program). How hard would it be to tell you (up front) that there is a “free ride” option and that’s a good place for the clueless to get familiar with the app and its controls?[rant/]
I'm very appreciative that you are willing to help out. Perhaps there ought to be a "for dummies" thread?
trapdoor2
Zen MBB Master
That's part of the problem...I haven't got a clue what or where or how to move between the modes. I haven't found any such sort of control or button in TR. I found them in the Wahoo app.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
It mean don't pay attention to it during the test go off of perceived exertion.
To successfully test you will probably need to "preset you FTP" to 100watts to prevent blowing up prior to the test block when in erg mode. When you get to the test blow you will definitely need to be in "Standard/Slope/Resistance mode=0"; and then be prepared to to test in a really low hill climbing gear. We'll get you up to a reasonable cadence; nothing wrong with 80rpm other than it's physically exhausting. The rule is the slower you go the more it's on your muscle; the faster you pedal the more the power comes from the heart and lungs. It does take time.
I don't have Windows or Android but I was able to borrow some screen shots from dcrainmaker.com review of the Android Beta.
Tap the device icons at the bottom of the screen
Android:
Windows:
ATTACH=full]3870[/ATTACH]
Tap on your Trainer
Android:
Windows:
Change the "Slope/Standard/Resistance" level to Zero
Android: I don't have screen shot.
Windows:
Then "X" you way back to the workout. You can practice this using the workout "Free Ride 30"
It should hard but takes about 3 seconds to execute once you have it down.
Again this is function of them assuming people are all on DFs and can push those big slow gears without knees damage.
I'm very appreciative that you are willing to help out. Perhaps there ought to be a "for dummies" thread?
This is the for dummies thread. If it took me 2 weeks to figure out; you expected to get it on the first go?...... Most everyone that is succeeding is taking 2 to 3 sessions to get it figured out; after which it becomes second nature. Like learning to ride the MBB it's actually really worth the effort. We are here to help to save you the hassles the rest us went through.
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trapdoor2
Zen MBB Master
Excellent! I think that will help me get started out. I love where it is saying, "Spin lightly and quickly for the first few minutes"....I was grunting and whoofing.
Yesterday evening, I got an email from Wahoo that linked me to their "how to get started using our stuff" (oh, NOW your app makes more sense...). There's probably supposed to be a link to the "how to" in the paperwork that came in the box with the Kickr Snap...not in mine!
And that is much appreciated. Yes, I was expecting to be able to get on it and ride right now. I wasn't expecting to be able to understand everything...but I was frustrated that I had no intuitive grasp of the basics. I'm still coming to grips with my Smartphone and I don't have the intuition built in yet to tap or swipe the screen to make something happen. Add to it that I've been SME (Subject Matter Expert) for so long on so many things that having to learn how to wiggle my toe before moving on to learning how to crawl...I was not happy.
Yah, I'm a "drag-it-out-of-the-box-get-on-it-and-ride...fail...then start looking for the instructions" guy.
Instructions? We don't need no steeekin' instructions!
I hope to be able to give it a try again this evening.
Yesterday evening, I got an email from Wahoo that linked me to their "how to get started using our stuff" (oh, NOW your app makes more sense...). There's probably supposed to be a link to the "how to" in the paperwork that came in the box with the Kickr Snap...not in mine!
And that is much appreciated. Yes, I was expecting to be able to get on it and ride right now. I wasn't expecting to be able to understand everything...but I was frustrated that I had no intuitive grasp of the basics. I'm still coming to grips with my Smartphone and I don't have the intuition built in yet to tap or swipe the screen to make something happen. Add to it that I've been SME (Subject Matter Expert) for so long on so many things that having to learn how to wiggle my toe before moving on to learning how to crawl...I was not happy.
Yah, I'm a "drag-it-out-of-the-box-get-on-it-and-ride...fail...then start looking for the instructions" guy.
Instructions? We don't need no steeekin' instructions!
I hope to be able to give it a try again this evening.
