LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Have you ever wondered what would happen if you could breed a Cruzbike V20 FWD MBB recumbent with a Morciglio Arrowhead RWD recumbent? Well maybe you have not, but I did - partly because at the time I owned the only Arrowhead in existence, and a V20, and partly because I am just a little obsessed with speed.
V20
Arrowhead
Well - we did it - and let me tell you, MAGIC happened - literally!
Introducing Magic:
"a carbon-fiber racing prototype built by John Morciglio in collaboration with Cruzbike".
For now, this is the "Ultimate - True Racing Recumbent" - bar none
V20 meets his little brother (or cousin) : Magic
Magic and V20 side by side (with Magic’s seat at 20 degree angle)
Now for the rest of the story: If you know me, you know my favorite all around recumbent is the Cruzbike V20. and I have ridden many bents, from Bachetta’s, to three different M5’s, 4 other Morciglio Carbon Fiber machine, including other proto-typo bents. I love the V20 for the ease of riding on normal roads, and plus it just looks super cool! The FWD/MBB platform makes it the very best all around bent in the world - in my book anyway! Most of the other RWD bents either have 1+ idlers to keep the chain off the front wheel, or chain interference, and even crank interference) if you are short like I am. The Arrowhead is just one of those RWD machines. Super aero, but with significant chain and crank interference and also very susceptible to windy conditions (even trucks passing) especially when you are going fast - (and when aren’t you). But it is fast. I was able to ride my fastest ever 10 mile Time Trial on the Arrowhead at 31.8mph at the Charlotte Motor Speeday. The Vendetta, while fast could only manage about 29.5 mph under the same power. This is simply due to its aerodynamic advantage. So, the Arrowhead was my choice for the track, and the Vendetta for everything else.
But if you know me, you know I am always searching for more speed, so I asked master Carbon Fiber Frame builder (John Morciglio) if he could build a super fast FWD/MBB based on the Cruzbike platform. He said he thought he could and whipped out a few design ideas. Look familiar?
I said “cool” and asked him if he would be interested in collaborating with Cruzbike on the project. He said yes, so I got him in touch with Jim & Maria to hammer out the details. About a year later Jim, Maria and I have the first 2 proto-types. (There is a 3rd one out there somewhere, but I will that person chime in just in case he want to remain anonymous.)
Design criteria:
When working with John M on the initial design specs for this new MBB, I convinced him that for it to be appealing to the widest market that it would be best for to be as adjustable as possible. My ideas were to have the Bottom Bracket (BB), Handlebars (HB), and seat to all be very adjustable. John went one step farther and made his molds so he could put the rear dropout also in a variety of places, and also made the front fork to be able to accept a disc brake. Here are the specs of the bike and the adjustability areas and their limits:
Here is a great comparison of me on Magic, Arrowhead and V20
First Impressions:
As always John Morciglio’s creations are ½ art, ½ bike. This one is no exception! You will want to hang it on your wall when you are not riding it.
First ride perceptions:
My first ride on my Magic was very interesting and slightly harrowing, partly because it was on a ¼ mile athletic track on a windy day with gunner bars. It was a mistake to ride Magic first with gunner-bars, but that is what I asked for so that is what John built for me and what I rode that first day. To make matters worse there were a lot of other people walking and playing around, so I had an audience as well and people & dogs to try and not run over. I was able to ride Magic, but if you have ever ridden a bent with gunner bars you know it takes a little getting used to. I was a little (Ok, maybe a lot) tentative and found it hard to keep a straight line with the wind blowing and the tight turns on the track.
Testing:
First testing day was Apr 11, 2019 on that ¼ mile athletic track. I tested Magic against the Arrowhead, my red V20 (with stubby HB) and my yellow V20 with fulldrop HB. Since it was windy and busy and my first ride on Magic, I limited my wattage to between 120-130watts. I also swapped out wheels, cranks, and pedals so each bike was as close to the other as possible.
Results: The Magic with the gunner bars was about 1mph faster than my yellow V20 with full drops. (21.6mph versus 20.6mph at about 130 watts) Obviously not an apples to apples test since Magic also has a 20 degree seat angle. It was also faster than the Arrowhead with gunners and same angle seat - so very promising. But the speeds were slow, so more testing obviously needed.
I have since then tested many different variations of Magic with gunnerbars, full drops, my signature short stubby handle, and also with seat angles that match the V20. I always used the same wheels, and cranks to keep things as even as possible. In most cases the Magic was faster than the V20. The more applied power and faster I tested the greater a difference there was as you would expect with a more aero-dynamic setup. The slower you go the less difference there is. I did not do any testing under 20mph, but I would say there is probably negligible difference when traveling at speeds below 17-18mph.
To date, I have tested on 11 different dates from Aprill 11th thru April 27. Mostly on a closed track where the conditions were easily controlled and duplicated. I started testing with 5 min laps, but some of those results were questionable, so I increased the laps to 5 miles instead. All my test results and comments can be seen on my google docs spreadsheet that can be accessed here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19BoCpcKBJk7Ko1YCoc3HQamk0AH9MaRgGZhzrr7frFQ/edit?usp=sharing
Prior to getting this incredible machine from John Morciglio, Maria asked me answer a few questions about it (when compared to the V20) we were naturally going to be asked. Here are her questions and my answers:
How much will it weigh?
Mine with full drop handlebars came in at 26.8 pounds. About 1.2 lbs more than my Yellow V20 (using the same wheels, cranks, pedals). Even though it is Carbon Fiber, I believe it is the largeness of the front nose that adds the extra weight.
Will it climb fast?
The Magic climbs just as well as the V20 with similar handlebars and seat angle. I actually felt I could make power going up hills a tiny bit better. I think this was because I had a thin 1’4” seat cushion on the Magic and used my Ventist on my V20
Will it be faster than the V20?
In all my testing, the Magic has been faster than the V20, but how much depends on how you have each bike build out.and how much power you are using. Just like with the V20 and S40 everyone is different and will have different results, but generally speaking I believe the Magic is the fastest at racing speeds of over 20mph.
If so, why and under what circumstances?
Adjust-ability: does it adjust at all?
Yes - very much. Magic can be easily configured to allow riders from about 5'6" up to 6'6" to be fitted. These are the areas on the Magic that can be easily modified.
How will having the handlebar flip up for maintenance impact performance and handling?
What is the actual seat back angle?
Note: The farther back you lay to horizontal the harder it is to make power, especially the longer you ride. You get better aero benefit, but it comes as the cost of not being able to push as hard on the pedals. This is particularly true for extended amounts of time >3 hours, but may improve with practice.
Is it a practical road bike?
Final notes:
I did most of my testing on a closed track, but the hill climbing and coast down testing were on open roads. I felt just as safe and maneuverable on the Magic as I do on the V20 and tried different handlebar configurations.
On April 20th, I finally took the Magic out for "normal" 32 mile ride on the open road down in Georgia. I felt just as comfortable on Magic as I did on the V20 riding these same roads. I had the seat at 20 degree angle for this ride, and it "felt " like an “old friend”!.
Will the Magic totally replace the V20 or the S40? I really doubt it. The V20 & S40 are still remarkably aero all on their own and very fast and agile especially with shorter wheelbases. In my humble opinion “Magic” is a “True Racing Recumbent” (borrowing from a current Cruzbike Thread that seems to talk most of M1 & M5’s) pure and simple. To me it is another bike in the herd, another tool in the toolbox! The Magic is much lower than either the V20 or S40 so a social machine it is not. When you ride it like it was made to be ridden (yeah - superfast), you probably will not be anywhere near anyone else anyway else to be social with anyway - well unless they are riding one too.
It is my understand that Cruzbike will not be producing these prototypes as part of their regular offerings on their web-site. If you are interested in one, you must contact John Morciglio for one. His email is (kmorciglio@comcast.net). I think after more people have them and more real life riding data can be gathered as to how they ride in longer and mountainous rides, then Cruzbike may start manufacturing and marketing them as they do all their other models. For now - it’s proto-type that anyone can own and ride!
Please also see Cruzbike's Blog post for more pictures and information.
https://cruzbike.com/blogs/blog/introducing-magic-carbon-fiber-front-wheel-drive-racing-recumbent
Extra stuff:
Here are some links to download a bunch more pics that show just about every aspect of Magic and it’s components and some videos that show how the seat and handlebars can be adjusted.
zip file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c67655k9p9gms5o/Magic pics.zip?dl=0
360 degree video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qmzoocoa40x34i/Magic video 360.mp4?dl=0
Handlebar up-down video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tv1yw0nlcmw1z81/Magic handlebar video1.mp4?dl=0
Seat removal video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2czqtdkf4saquiq/Magic seat video.mp4?dl=0
Q & A:
As usual, I will be happy to answer any questions you may have. If private, please email me at larryoslund@gmail.com. If general, post them on this thread and I will get to them as soon as I can. I will also continue updating my testing spreadsheet as I do more testing.
V20
Arrowhead
Well - we did it - and let me tell you, MAGIC happened - literally!
Introducing Magic:
"a carbon-fiber racing prototype built by John Morciglio in collaboration with Cruzbike".
For now, this is the "Ultimate - True Racing Recumbent" - bar none
V20 meets his little brother (or cousin) : Magic
Magic and V20 side by side (with Magic’s seat at 20 degree angle)
Now for the rest of the story: If you know me, you know my favorite all around recumbent is the Cruzbike V20. and I have ridden many bents, from Bachetta’s, to three different M5’s, 4 other Morciglio Carbon Fiber machine, including other proto-typo bents. I love the V20 for the ease of riding on normal roads, and plus it just looks super cool! The FWD/MBB platform makes it the very best all around bent in the world - in my book anyway! Most of the other RWD bents either have 1+ idlers to keep the chain off the front wheel, or chain interference, and even crank interference) if you are short like I am. The Arrowhead is just one of those RWD machines. Super aero, but with significant chain and crank interference and also very susceptible to windy conditions (even trucks passing) especially when you are going fast - (and when aren’t you). But it is fast. I was able to ride my fastest ever 10 mile Time Trial on the Arrowhead at 31.8mph at the Charlotte Motor Speeday. The Vendetta, while fast could only manage about 29.5 mph under the same power. This is simply due to its aerodynamic advantage. So, the Arrowhead was my choice for the track, and the Vendetta for everything else.
But if you know me, you know I am always searching for more speed, so I asked master Carbon Fiber Frame builder (John Morciglio) if he could build a super fast FWD/MBB based on the Cruzbike platform. He said he thought he could and whipped out a few design ideas. Look familiar?
I said “cool” and asked him if he would be interested in collaborating with Cruzbike on the project. He said yes, so I got him in touch with Jim & Maria to hammer out the details. About a year later Jim, Maria and I have the first 2 proto-types. (There is a 3rd one out there somewhere, but I will that person chime in just in case he want to remain anonymous.)
Design criteria:
When working with John M on the initial design specs for this new MBB, I convinced him that for it to be appealing to the widest market that it would be best for to be as adjustable as possible. My ideas were to have the Bottom Bracket (BB), Handlebars (HB), and seat to all be very adjustable. John went one step farther and made his molds so he could put the rear dropout also in a variety of places, and also made the front fork to be able to accept a disc brake. Here are the specs of the bike and the adjustability areas and their limits:
- Weight: Base build about 26 pounds. (About 1 ½-2 pounds more than a V20 - Yes more!)
- Wheelbase: Base build 52”, Rear dropout can be custom ordered up to 4-5” farther back for riders that are very tall with larger torsos. V20 is 45” for comparison sake.
- BB to front edge of seat: This is adjustable from about 28”- 35” by placing the opening for the BB in a specific location of the front “nose” section.
- BB to ground: This is also adjustable from about 18”-25” by placing the opening for the BB in a specific vertical location of the front “nose” section.
- Seat: The seat can be infinitely positioned both horizontally and vertically to adjust for rider heights from 5’6” to 6’6” (mostly depending on the inseam requirements to the BB). This seat is also adjustable from nearly horizontal to at least 40 degrees. Anything over that it just looks odd and doesn’t really make sense
- Handlebars: A handlebar bracket of either 1” or 1 ¼” can be slid into the adjustable steering tube. The tube of this bracket can easily be slid fore and afte for best fit.
- Brakes: The front brake can be a disc or rim brake at this time. I suspect John could figure out how to mount a rear disc brake too, although it would probably require a new mold and might add additional cost.
Here is a great comparison of me on Magic, Arrowhead and V20
First Impressions:
As always John Morciglio’s creations are ½ art, ½ bike. This one is no exception! You will want to hang it on your wall when you are not riding it.
First ride perceptions:
My first ride on my Magic was very interesting and slightly harrowing, partly because it was on a ¼ mile athletic track on a windy day with gunner bars. It was a mistake to ride Magic first with gunner-bars, but that is what I asked for so that is what John built for me and what I rode that first day. To make matters worse there were a lot of other people walking and playing around, so I had an audience as well and people & dogs to try and not run over. I was able to ride Magic, but if you have ever ridden a bent with gunner bars you know it takes a little getting used to. I was a little (Ok, maybe a lot) tentative and found it hard to keep a straight line with the wind blowing and the tight turns on the track.
Testing:
First testing day was Apr 11, 2019 on that ¼ mile athletic track. I tested Magic against the Arrowhead, my red V20 (with stubby HB) and my yellow V20 with fulldrop HB. Since it was windy and busy and my first ride on Magic, I limited my wattage to between 120-130watts. I also swapped out wheels, cranks, and pedals so each bike was as close to the other as possible.
Results: The Magic with the gunner bars was about 1mph faster than my yellow V20 with full drops. (21.6mph versus 20.6mph at about 130 watts) Obviously not an apples to apples test since Magic also has a 20 degree seat angle. It was also faster than the Arrowhead with gunners and same angle seat - so very promising. But the speeds were slow, so more testing obviously needed.
I have since then tested many different variations of Magic with gunnerbars, full drops, my signature short stubby handle, and also with seat angles that match the V20. I always used the same wheels, and cranks to keep things as even as possible. In most cases the Magic was faster than the V20. The more applied power and faster I tested the greater a difference there was as you would expect with a more aero-dynamic setup. The slower you go the less difference there is. I did not do any testing under 20mph, but I would say there is probably negligible difference when traveling at speeds below 17-18mph.
To date, I have tested on 11 different dates from Aprill 11th thru April 27. Mostly on a closed track where the conditions were easily controlled and duplicated. I started testing with 5 min laps, but some of those results were questionable, so I increased the laps to 5 miles instead. All my test results and comments can be seen on my google docs spreadsheet that can be accessed here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19BoCpcKBJk7Ko1YCoc3HQamk0AH9MaRgGZhzrr7frFQ/edit?usp=sharing
Prior to getting this incredible machine from John Morciglio, Maria asked me answer a few questions about it (when compared to the V20) we were naturally going to be asked. Here are her questions and my answers:
How much will it weigh?
Mine with full drop handlebars came in at 26.8 pounds. About 1.2 lbs more than my Yellow V20 (using the same wheels, cranks, pedals). Even though it is Carbon Fiber, I believe it is the largeness of the front nose that adds the extra weight.
Will it climb fast?
The Magic climbs just as well as the V20 with similar handlebars and seat angle. I actually felt I could make power going up hills a tiny bit better. I think this was because I had a thin 1’4” seat cushion on the Magic and used my Ventist on my V20
Will it be faster than the V20?
In all my testing, the Magic has been faster than the V20, but how much depends on how you have each bike build out.and how much power you are using. Just like with the V20 and S40 everyone is different and will have different results, but generally speaking I believe the Magic is the fastest at racing speeds of over 20mph.
If so, why and under what circumstances?
- Magic (14 degree seat) with gunnerbars is 1.7mph faster than V20 (with 20 degree seat) with full drops. - at 225 watts
- Magic (with 20 degree seat) with full drops is 1.3mph faster than V20 (with 20 degree seat) and full drops (little closer) - at 200 watts
- Magic (with 20 degree seat) with stubby handlebar is 0.3mph faster than V20 (with 20 degree seat) and stubby handlebars (much closer) - at 200 watts
Adjust-ability: does it adjust at all?
Yes - very much. Magic can be easily configured to allow riders from about 5'6" up to 6'6" to be fitted. These are the areas on the Magic that can be easily modified.
- Bottom bracket (horizontal and vertical spacing)
- Handlebars (any set will work easily)
- Seat (horiz & vertical),
- Rear-drop for wheel, and
- Brakes (front can be disc or rim)
How will having the handlebar flip up for maintenance impact performance and handling?
- The handlebar has 4 screws that thread into the frame to hold the handlebar firm and in place while riding. Simply unscrew the “back” two screws and flip up to work on headset or fish brake cables.
- If you did not screw the 2 screws in and road the bike, the handlebar still slips down fairly tight onto the frame and as long as left in that position while riding it would not impact performance. (The only thing that I think is that if you rode like this and lifted it up while going fast, it would greatly change the steering input and that would not be good.
What is the actual seat back angle?
- The seat angle is adjustable very easily. John will install it at whatever angle you want when he first builds it. He built mine at about 14 degrees.
- The seat can be adjusted from near horizontal to 40+ degrees by simply sliding it on its built in track and re-attaching at the angle you like (New holes may need to be drilled in the seat or frame to accommodate this, but easy to do).
- I very easily moved the seat from 14 to 20 degrees (to match the V20) for testing.
Note: The farther back you lay to horizontal the harder it is to make power, especially the longer you ride. You get better aero benefit, but it comes as the cost of not being able to push as hard on the pedals. This is particularly true for extended amounts of time >3 hours, but may improve with practice.
Is it a practical road bike?
- I believe it is - but with a few limitations, some that already exist with the V20.
- Since it is lower than the V20 (about 6") it makes it a little less visible, so more care would need to be taken to be visible on regular roads. Lights, sirens, ext.
- The front end is also a little heavier, so if you ride it at 14 degree seat angle it also take a little while to adjust to it. After that it is fine.
- With full gunner bars, the bike is as figity as the Arrowhead, and I would probably only ride it on a track with that handlebar configuration.
- I would need a rear case designed for it like the V20 so it could carry fuel and supplies for long rides. (John is already working on something which will be available)
- There is nice storage in between the seat and the frame to carry tools and supplies for mechanical needs.
- This bike would probably not be super practical for steep climbs because it only has a single front chainring (no FD). I have not had a problem riding on slopes up to 14 % grade on a 50x28, but not for any extended length of time. There is a new 1x13 setup that promised to provide the same range as a 2x11 setup, which may change this.
Final notes:
I did most of my testing on a closed track, but the hill climbing and coast down testing were on open roads. I felt just as safe and maneuverable on the Magic as I do on the V20 and tried different handlebar configurations.
On April 20th, I finally took the Magic out for "normal" 32 mile ride on the open road down in Georgia. I felt just as comfortable on Magic as I did on the V20 riding these same roads. I had the seat at 20 degree angle for this ride, and it "felt " like an “old friend”!.
Will the Magic totally replace the V20 or the S40? I really doubt it. The V20 & S40 are still remarkably aero all on their own and very fast and agile especially with shorter wheelbases. In my humble opinion “Magic” is a “True Racing Recumbent” (borrowing from a current Cruzbike Thread that seems to talk most of M1 & M5’s) pure and simple. To me it is another bike in the herd, another tool in the toolbox! The Magic is much lower than either the V20 or S40 so a social machine it is not. When you ride it like it was made to be ridden (yeah - superfast), you probably will not be anywhere near anyone else anyway else to be social with anyway - well unless they are riding one too.
It is my understand that Cruzbike will not be producing these prototypes as part of their regular offerings on their web-site. If you are interested in one, you must contact John Morciglio for one. His email is (kmorciglio@comcast.net). I think after more people have them and more real life riding data can be gathered as to how they ride in longer and mountainous rides, then Cruzbike may start manufacturing and marketing them as they do all their other models. For now - it’s proto-type that anyone can own and ride!
Please also see Cruzbike's Blog post for more pictures and information.
https://cruzbike.com/blogs/blog/introducing-magic-carbon-fiber-front-wheel-drive-racing-recumbent
Extra stuff:
Here are some links to download a bunch more pics that show just about every aspect of Magic and it’s components and some videos that show how the seat and handlebars can be adjusted.
zip file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c67655k9p9gms5o/Magic pics.zip?dl=0
360 degree video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qmzoocoa40x34i/Magic video 360.mp4?dl=0
Handlebar up-down video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tv1yw0nlcmw1z81/Magic handlebar video1.mp4?dl=0
Seat removal video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2czqtdkf4saquiq/Magic seat video.mp4?dl=0
Q & A:
As usual, I will be happy to answer any questions you may have. If private, please email me at larryoslund@gmail.com. If general, post them on this thread and I will get to them as soon as I can. I will also continue updating my testing spreadsheet as I do more testing.
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