My Very First Recumbent is a V20

[Frito Bandito]

@Frito Bandito you didn’t have to move to japan to learn how to ride a CB. Across town probably would have been far enough

I tend to overdo things hahaha.
If any of you guys make the trip to Tokyo let me know. The smooth Edogawa and Arakawa rivers are great for opening it up and not having to worry about cars or crowds. I should have Di2 on it by then and some new wheels. I'd really like the Xentis Mark 3 wheels, but that's not gonna happen for a long while.

 

[bladderhead]

I think rivers are usually a bit wet for cycling.

 

[bladderhead]

For those who find that mashing makes their trajectory look like a sine-wave: concentrate on pushing the pedal down when it is near the horizontal and your leg is near full extension. Force applied in this direction has no effect on steering.

 

[Frito Bandito]

The seat pan will probably help you hydroplane if you are going the right direction

The sine-wave seems to put drivers on the defensive when on city streets here, but since the shortest distance from A-B is a straight line it does add distance to your ride until you get the hang of it. I think I felt what you wrote about where in the pedal stroke to be putting pressure. There were a few times when I was trying to keep pressure throughout as much of the pedal stroke as possible and that also kept me going pretty straight. I might be putting a lot more effort in the area of the stroke that activates the hamstrings because those have been sore over my first 3 rides.

I'm enjoying this bike more and more each time though, and can see doing some ultra distance rides with it.

 

[benphyr]

It is so much fun following along your speedy learning journey. Thank you for sharing it with us.

 

[3bs]

the v20 rides great for distance particularly if you can get your headrest set right.

not sure your definition of ultra distance is, but it is pretty nice after long stints to be only tired, not sore.

 

[Frito Bandito]

It is so much fun following along your speedy learning journey. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Sometimes searches lead me off the track and 2 hours later I am reminded what I started searching for but wound up in left field. So thank you guys also for the tips and links so far. In some down time I really need to do some low speed maneuvers, starting off from a dead stop, and inclines to get that mind/muscle link solid.

I was thinking why it takes so long for the body to balance in that position, especially since I have always been active in sports, exercising, surfing, snowboarding and cycling. And I came to my own logical conclusion that the only time I was ever really in that position was either when I was bench pressing or falling down. Everything else was upright. I don't think my brain functions well enough in that position just yet.

 

[Frito Bandito]

the v20 rides great for distance particularly if you can get your headrest set right.

not sure your definition of ultra distance is, but it is pretty nice after long stints to be only tired, not sore.

I think I have my headrest set right now. Since the screws on the suspension mount have reamed out the plastic backing plate and it rattles, I might just glue it on. I can always use a paint scraper to remove the plastic backing plate, or remove the sponge to either remake a whole new one or glue some new sponge on.

Also, I can't seem to get the Perez clamps to hold the arms tightly enough to stop them from rattling inside the frame when I lift my head. I might either tack weld them into place or use a few drops of glue to stop the rattling. Since the arms are already pretty tight in there I think I can just remove the Perez clamp and go with the glue drops or weld. Of course in a place where I can use a Dremel tool and small disc wheel cutter to cut them out if I ever need to.

As for the distance, I've done plenty of 150-180km rides with friends on overnight or weekend trips, but would like to get into +300km rides on weekly or even longer trips. I am with you on being tired better than being sore. 1 is much easier to overcome.

 

[3bs]

humans are not meant to lie on their backs with their bellys and vitals exposed. like dogs, frogs, and other similarly designed creatures, our equilibrium is designed with the belly down or forward and the back up or back. prone or leaning forward are our anthropological preferences. think of the crazy crap we wil do on a motorcycle that we would never do on our backs. (except maybe @RojoRacing jason)

 

[MrSteve]

People usually adapt, eventually.
-3bs commented:
"Humans are not meant to lie on their backs with their bellys and vitals exposed."
Like Jason, the donut-powered demon racer, my background is motorcycles.
Bicycles are basically just really tragically underpowered motorcycles and bicycles handle, pretty much, like motorcycles.

Humans are individuals though and every individual is different.
For example, back in my motorcycle test-rider days, it was impossible for me to
ride a jetski.
Jetskis are boats. Their handlebars are tillers, like a boat. Turn left to go left.
My motorcycle steering skills, hard-wired skills, where you initiate a turn with a countersteer, always crashed the jetski.
Every time.
It was tragically funny.
However, if I had persevered with the jetski, I'm confident that I would have adapted, eventually, so as to be
able to ride a jetski without dumping it in turns. Too much.

The point is if your goal is to be really comfortable and confident on your recumbent bike, then practice.
Give yourself a chance to become skillful and practice!

 

[Frito Bandito]

humans are not meant to lie on their backs with their bellys and vitals exposed. like dogs, frogs, and other similarly designed creatures, our equilibrium is designed with the belly down or forward and the back up or back. prone or leaning forward are our anthropological preferences. think of the crazy crap we wil do on a motorcycle that we would never do on our backs. (except maybe @RojoRacing jason)

HAHAHA. Easy there Tiger. Save it for the Lavender Room. Speaking of which, where is that?
Just joking!
Sorta.


lol

 

[Frito Bandito]

People usually adapt, eventually.
-3bs commented:
"Humans are not meant to lie on their backs with their bellys and vitals exposed."
Like Jason, the donut-powered demon racer, my background is motorcycles.
Bicycles are basically just really tragically underpowered motorcycles and bicycles handle, pretty much, like motorcycles.

Humans are individuals though and every individual is different.
For example, back in my motorcycle test-rider days, it was impossible for me to
ride a jetski.
Jetskis are boats. Their handlebars are tillers, like a boat. Turn left to go left.
My motorcycle steering skills, hard-wired skills, where you initiate a turn with a countersteer, always crashed the jetski.
Every time.
It was tragically funny.
However, if I had persevered with the jetski, I'm confident that I would have adapted, eventually, so as to be
able to ride a jetski without dumping it in turns. Too much.

The point is if your goal is to be really comfortable and confident on your recumbent bike, then practice.
Give yourself a chance to become skillful and practice!

Wow, I have never ridden a jet ski so I did not know that about the steering. I just thought it was similar to MTB steering. I've got a little practice in driving twin screw boats before which have 2 levers for transmissions and 2 for throttles. It's easy going forward, when you face forward, but when parking stern first the best thing to do is turn around and face the stern with the levers behind you. Which is about the equivalent of turning only your seat to face the opposite way in a car with your hands on the wheel behind you and driving in reverse, 1 hand on the wheel and 1 on a throttle, all the while watching the flags to see which way and how strongly the wind is going to blow your boat either into the dock or into another boat. You only get one chance. Time it right and most people just smile because they are happy to be back on land after hurling all day. Make a mistake and not only do you damage your boat but maybe someone else's.

I am getting a lot of miles under my belt so far though. About 30 per day over the last 4 days, and yesterday was the smoothest by far. Other than 2 hairy moments when I waved at riders it was good. I hate to come off as "the guy on the sofa bike who never waves" but they are just gonna have to lighten up. I'll talk at the rest stops, and even pull over if anyone has questions about it. Just yesterday at the midway point I let a 20-something sit on it, and tried to explain the pros and cons of it, and what I had planned to do with it in the future. The death grip is almost gone so my biceps aren't as sore from pulling on the bars. Weaving between selected spots on the path is helping to improve avoiding rocks or potholes. Powering up inclines while changing gears is getting easier. If the weather isn't so bad today then I plan on doing a bit of low speed turn practice as well before the bike path fills up on the weekend.

 

[RojoRacing]

I think I have my headrest set right now. Since the screws on the suspension mount have reamed out the plastic backing plate and it rattles, I might just glue it on. I can always use a paint scraper to remove the plastic backing plate, or remove the sponge to either remake a whole new one or glue some new sponge on.

Also, I can't seem to get the Perez clamps to hold the arms tightly enough to stop them from rattling inside the frame when I lift my head. I might either tack weld them into place or use a few drops of glue to stop the rattling. Since the arms are already pretty tight in there I think I can just remove the Perez clamp and go with the glue drops or weld. Of course in a place where I can use a Dremel tool and small disc wheel cutter to cut them out if I ever need to.

As for the distance, I've done plenty of 150-180km rides with friends on overnight or weekend trips, but would like to get into +300km rides on weekly or even longer trips. I am with you on being tired better than being sore. 1 is much easier to overcome.

Zero reason for those clamps to not hold those tubes with an iron grip unless A. you're doing something wrong or B. the threads are failing and the bolt is coming loose which was in issue with the mass-produced variant that may or may not have been resolved in later production runs.

If the bolts are just coming lose you can either tap deeper threads and use a longer bolt with tighter force or toss on a little blue thread lock tight aka medium strength. If you continue to struggle with the rojo clamps give us some more details on why and I'm sure others already have a solution, the idea behind that design was to make it simple and effective.

As for adapting to being on your back, well for anyone who's read my introductory thread on here knows I struggled more than most to master the V20. If not for my obligation to the faith the Parker's entrusted in me I would have given the bike back and called it a failed design. I will say a bent will never feel like your DF and that will be both good and bad in many aspects. The V20 handles like a Formula car or MotoGP motorcycle, it can be unforgiving the faster you go if you don't have the steady skill to handle it but it's potential is great than most will ever extract.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Zero reason for those clamps to not hold those tubes with an iron grip unless A. you're doing something wrong or B. the threads are failing and the bolt is coming loose which was in issue with the mass-produced variant that may or may not have been resolved in later production runs.

If the bolts are just coming lose you can either tap deeper threads and use a longer bolt with tighter force or toss on a little blue thread lock tight aka medium strength. If you continue to struggle with the rojo clamps give us some more details on why and I'm sure others already have a solution, the idea behind that design was to make it simple and effective.

As for adapting to being on your back, well for anyone who's read my introductory thread on here knows I struggled more than most to master the V20. If not for my obligation to the faith the Parker's entrusted in me I would have given the bike back and called it a failed design. I will say a bent will never feel like your DF and that will be both good and bad in many aspects. The V20 handles like a Formula car or MotoGP motorcycle, it can be unforgiving the faster you go if you don't have the steady skill to handle it but it's potential is great than most will ever extract.

Thanks for the information Jason, I really appreciate it. The top piece inside the rubber came out and stayed connected to the hex key bolt pretty tightly. So I'll dab some glue in there then try it again to see if it stays stuck.

Im glad to hear you got the V20 sorted it. So far it has been fun and I see how it is such a fast bike. It's been only 4 truly proper rides on my V20 of 30 miles each and even without deep wheels, using the big ring, pushing very hard or any of the upcoming fine tuning, I am already very close to my TT bike speed over the same distance. Doing any 1 of those will put me over it, doing all of them is going to put me well over it, and once my leg muscles get with the program on the slightly different stresses switching over from my DF bike then I am going to be smashing all my PBs. I had about 300 Strava KOMs, almost all on my regular route, quite a few which have been taken recently in individually targeted attempts, but I am wondering if I should take them back on the V20 since it really is kind of unfair, or privatize my rides (if that will even keep my name off the KOM) because I know I am going to going much faster. Time will tell though

 

[3bs]

no lavender room that anyone has told me about. but i have only been around for a couple years.
brown water room for post rides is wherever i am.

i still do boats, watercraft cars trucks and other hobbies of locomotion. moving from object to object, even within a discipline, such as sterndrives versus standard screws, takes not only adaptation but experience in order to balance intuition and factual information.

adaptation, and the data feed for adaptation, which for humans is mostly experiential combined with incubation cannot be overstated. for me, the transition to recumbent 2 wheelers was directly related to three factors 1. handlebar width - the wider the bar the easier the ride and 2. seat angle - the more upright the easier. 3. tiller - the shorter the tiller the easier to ride.

this was also similar in mbbfwd. for example for me, the t50 is infinitely easer to ride than the v20. when i have taught people to ride CB's ( the list continues to grow) i start them on the t50, not the v20. my son and my neighbor Casey (who now has a v20) are the only two people i have ever seen just jump on a v20 and ride away. in comparison, my daughters both jumped on my t50 and were able to ride it as soon as i set it for their height.

based on my observations, the one think that really accelerates the learning curve on the v20 is multiple short sessions rather than long sessions. i believe this to be a combination of having to do more of the primary mechanics, start, stop, get on, get off, turn left, turn right, etc. and repetition combined with incubation of data. lots of short sessions means forcing the brain to store the data and then recall it, and it allows the brain to process and link the data during down time, and then provide new perspective and recall information to the rider on the next session, creating another important learning component, familiarity.

 

[RojoRacing]

By rubber do you mean plastic? there should be no rubber in the clamps. By top piece are you talking about a metal coil aka threaded insert? If that's the case toss the insert, it's no good anymore once it strips out. Your best bet would be to drill the hole straight through and tap the holes all the way through the plastic. You can thread the bolt straight into the plastic if you have enough threads to support the load which you should. My first design had inserts but later realized it was overkill and simple deeper threads straight into the plastic was a better design. Somewhere on the forum there was a thread someone made comparing the mass-produced clamps vs mine and how to make the mass-produced one as good as the originals.

I own most of the KOM's in my old hometown from my time riding with my friends years ago on the DF bike. I made it a point to not overtake any of them with the V20 so I could leave my friends and family segment times they could aim to achieve. I only take KOM's on the V20 in other areas not frequented by my friends.

 

[Frito Bandito]

no lavender room that anyone has told me about. but i have only been around for a couple years.
brown water room for post rides is wherever i am.

i still do boats, watercraft cars trucks and other hobbies of locomotion. moving from object to object, even within a discipline, such as sterndrives versus standard screws, takes not only adaptation but experience in order to balance intuition and factual information.

adaptation, and the data feed for adaptation, which for humans is mostly experiential combined with incubation cannot be overstated. for me, the transition to recumbent 2 wheelers was directly related to three factors 1. handlebar width - the wider the bar the easier the ride and 2. seat angle - the more upright the easier. 3. tiller - the shorter the tiller the easier to ride.

this was also similar in mbbfwd. for example for me, the t50 is infinitely easer to ride than the v20. when i have taught people to ride CB's ( the list continues to grow) i start them on the t50, not the v20. my son and my neighbor Casey (who now has a v20) are the only two people i have ever seen just jump on a v20 and ride away. in comparison, my daughters both jumped on my t50 and were able to ride it as soon as i set it for their height.

based on my observations, the one think that really accelerates the learning curve on the v20 is multiple short sessions rather than long sessions. i believe this to be a combination of having to do more of the primary mechanics, start, stop, get on, get off, turn left, turn right, etc. and repetition combined with incubation of data. lots of short sessions means forcing the brain to store the data and then recall it, and it allows the brain to process and link the data during down time, and then provide new perspective and recall information to the rider on the next session, creating another important learning component, familiarity.

Thanks braddah. I will definitely be doing some of the shorter stuff in the neighborhood to get 90* and 180* turns down fluidly, as well as starting on hills.

 

[Frito Bandito]

By rubber do you mean plastic? there should be no rubber in the clamps. By top piece are you talking about a metal coil aka threaded insert? If that's the case toss the insert, it's no good anymore once it strips out. Your best bet would be to drill the hole straight through and tap the holes all the way through the plastic. You can thread the bolt straight into the plastic if you have enough threads to support the load which you should. My first design had inserts but later realized it was overkill and simple deeper threads straight into the plastic was a better design. Somewhere on the forum there was a thread someone made comparing the mass-produced clamps vs mine and how to make the mass-produced one as good as the originals.

I own most of the KOM's in my old hometown from my time riding with my friends years ago on the DF bike. I made it a point to not overtake any of them with the V20 so I could leave my friends and family segment times they could aim to achieve. I only take KOM's on the V20 in other areas not frequented by my friends.

Yeah, the inserts are what came out. I put some Gorilla glue gel inside and quickly screwed the insert back in. It feels snug for now but let's see what happens tomorrow when I take the bike out again for around 70-100km.
Good advice about the KOMs. Luckily none of my close friends go KOM hunting, so I would just be retaking them from guys who seem to focus only on 1 specific KOM at a time. I'm at the point now where only +10km KOMs are interesting since each ride is at least 50km, and for a month or so before I bought the V20 I was doing close to 70km each ride, with the occasional 100km TT, or 150-180km with a friend as a social ride.

Got the bike set up this evening for tomorrow's ride as well as I could. Can't wait

 

[Mathew Fy]

Your best bet would be to drill the hole straight through and tap the holes all the way through the plastic.

You would also have to move the stabilizing bar to the side like Jesse discussed here.
For those who want to read about the original, click here.
I wish I had you make some for me when the the time was right. (My V20 was on back-order.) For now, I'm still making the old scissor clamp work.

 

[3bs]

The other thing that is a super helpful thing to master is one footed pedalling. Put the bike in easiest gear, sit up hook one foot in and pedal with just the one foot. Let the other foot keep you up and then let it dangle. This is the single most useful move in stoplight and traffic crossing environments and crowded sidewalks short of dismounting and walking the bike.

 

[RojoRacing]

You would also have to move the stabilizing bar to the side like Jesse discussed here.
For those who want to read about the original, click here.
I wish I had you make some for me when the the time was right. (My V20 was on back-order.) For now, I'm still making the old scissor clamp work.

Sorry, If I still had a way to make them I'd knock out a 100 of them but I never thought cruzbike would just go all backorder with them.

@Frito Bandito check out the links Matt posted, those are the threads I was referring to about fixing the clamps.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Thank you for the links Mathew. Mine held up today after putting the Gorilla glue inside, so it should be okay for a while. I am sure it will work itself loose someday though. The bad thing about my 95km was that during the last 20km when I sprinted home, my left water bottle was ejected 3 times. I have a spare so that one will be replaced before the next ride.

Great tip 3bs. I gotta do that one next because getting up a running start at the few intersections I had to stop at is getting old hahaha.

Jason, Rajadat. I already gave a quick glance at the pics but will check them out more after dinner.

It was a good social ride with a friend today, but I won't be doing social rides with it in the future. It was awkward going so slow on it while my friend tried to keep up. I felt so bad for leaving him behind a few times so at the end I told him I was going to sprint home. I got up to 52kph in 1 area, and if it weren't for the 3 ejections I would have had a nice 20km sprint to close out the day. Oh well! Next week, because I am definitely not taking it out on the weekend now that I can start pushing it.