Road bike vs. recumbent comparison

[Osiris]

That's cool! I think that is more about you taking easily to leg steer (can you ride no-handed yet?) and 'Cruzbike cockpit' that is responsible to both your differences from M5 - aero AND control.
If you could get away with stubby bars like Larry , you'll likely be as fast as on M5. But even Jason stays away from those...

No stubby bars for me, thanks. I love the V20 for it's ease of use, and while I may gain some speed by going to stubby handlebars, it would make the V20 extremely difficult to steer and it still wouldn't be as fast as my more aerodynamic M5 or M1. Larry uses his V20 for racing, so for him the loss of control resulting from the stubby handlebars is a price he's willing to pay for the extra speed. I'm just a weekend rider, and the only "racing" I do is on Strava.

I know some people claim they can steer with their feet, but I don't do it. Ironically, what makes the V20's steering so controllable is the very thing that I initially found so objectionable about it: it takes a lot of effort to turn the handlebars. That's bad when you're used to riding something with hypersensitive steering like my M5, but great once you get used to it, because the extra effort required acts as a natural steering damper.

Btw, adding a steering damper/stabilizer might allow one to have those bars AND retain better control.... turning it from a 'crutch' most people here seem to scoff at to a 'performance-enhancing' device.

I would love to be able to attach a steering damper to my M5 and M1. Then maybe I could enjoy riding them again.

And, of course, low-speed behaviour is massively better on MBB than on a dropped-chain high/low racer, no question. Major PITA.

Absolutely. It's easy to fall over when starting from a stop on most bents, but once you get used to an MBB, it's virtually impossible. The MBB eliminates the possibility of heel strikes, which are the main cause of tip-overs. The other factor, I believe, is that the weight of your legs which pivot along with the boom, acts as a counterweight and reduces the tendency for the bike to flop over when initiating a turn. I'm not absolutely sure of this, but I could swear that the V20 stays more upright in the turns than my other bents do. It also has a much shorter wheelbase, which contributes to faster turning.

 

[Balor]

I'm not absolutely sure of this, but I could swear that the V20 stays more upright in the turns than my other bents do. It also has a much shorter wheelbase, which contributes to faster turning.

Yea, MBB is much closer to DF bikes in this respect - it has 'turn into lean' component from weight distrution, a bit overemphasized one to be sure, but it took Ed a lot of practice to ride his M5 with tiller steering no-handed - something most people find impossible, because 'pure tiller' cockpit makes the bike steering flop OUT of the lean, leading to steer out of the turn and prompt fall unless you correct for that... which you, of course, do with every successful turn by handlebar input, but it does not make it 'easier' to be sure.

 

[Balor]

I know some people claim they can steer with their feet, but I don't do it. Ironically, what makes the V20's steering so controllable is the very thing that I initially found so objectionable about it: it takes a lot of effort to turn the handlebars. That's bad when you're used to riding something with hypersensitive steering like my M5, but great once you get used to it, because the extra effort required acts as a natural steering damper.

Erm, it does not really work that way, unless you have a binding headset.
Steering inertia is not about how hard is to get handlebars moving, that's less than half the problem. Greatest problem is to stop them from overshooting.

Likely, you add some unconscious 'leg steering' (or at least 'leg damping') component.
Try removing your legs from pedal on a (preferably, mild) downhill and do some manoeuvring...

 

[ed72]

Last weekend I was reminded once again just how much better the V20 handles than my other bents. There is one particular Strava segment which I ride often, and until several months ago, held the KOM on. At roughly 26 mph, the average speeds for riders at the top of the leader board for that segment don't look particularly impressive. On straighter segments, my average speeds on the M5 are normally in the low to mid 30 mph range, but this particular segment has some rather nasty turns in it which cost riders dearly. Trying to negotiate those turns at 30+ mph on my faster but twitchy handling M5 would have been suicidal. There is one S turn which is particularly tricky, so when I saw that I was heading into it at 32 mph, I had serious doubts that I'd make it. I felt the bike shimmy a bit, which may have been the result of a temporary loss of traction in the rear, but I emerged from the second turn still doing 28 mph. That meant that I was right on target for beating the record. A 90 degree left hander came moments later. If I blew that turn, I would only have bounced off a chain link fence, which wouldn't be fatal. Happily there was no loss of traction that time, which allowed me to pour on the gas right away. Two more turns remained, with the final 100 yards being uphill, so I'd lose quite a bit of speed there without having to brake. When I crossed the "finish line" and noticed that I was still moving at 22.4 mph, I was all but certain that I'd beaten the record. In fact, I'd beaten it by four seconds, carrying an average speed 0.5 mph higher than the old record, and 0.6 mph faster than my previous KOM obtained on the M5.

An M5 is going to be in central florida next week, it would like to try the suicidal s turn......can you share the segment?

 

[Osiris]

Erm, it does not really work that way, unless you have a binding headset.
Steering inertia is not about how hard is to get handlebars moving, that's less than half the problem. Greatest problem is to stop them from overshooting.

Likely, you add some unconscious 'leg steering' (or at least 'leg damping') component.
Try removing your legs from pedal on a (preferably, mild) downhill and do some manoeuvring...

I think you're misinterpreting me. What I mean is that the MBB is far less sensitive to steering inputs at the handlebar than any of my other bents. On my M5 for instance, the slightest hand movement is enough to send you right off the road, and this could be catastrophic when trying to negotiate tight turns at high speeds. Any rider will naturally adjust to its hypersensitive steering with lots of practice, but it will always be harder to manage than steering the V20.

 

[Osiris]

An M5 is going to be in central florida next week, it would like to try the suicidal s turn......can you share the segment?

Looking to steal my KOM Ed?

 

[Balor]

I think you're misinterpreting me. What I mean is that the MBB is far less sensitive to steering inputs at the handlebar than any of my other bents. On my M5 for instance, the slightest hand movement is enough to send you right off the road, and this could be catastrophic when trying to negotiate tight turns at high speeds.

Well, usually that is not really a problem, unless, of course, you have bar end shifters (or try to attach MTB trigger shifters like I've tried on a lowracer - big mistake!), but a good point nonetheless.

 

[Osiris]

Well, usually that is not really a problem, unless, of course, you have bar end shifters (or try to attach MTB trigger shifters like I've tried on a lowracer - big mistake!), but a good point nonetheless.

My M5 came with bar end shifters originally. Trying to shift gears was a frightening experience, until I swapped them out for a set of thumb shifters. On my M1, I crashed twice just trying to shift gears. Now I've got electronic shifting on it, so all I have to do is touch a button. It's still a horrible bent to ride, though.

 

[ed72]

Looking to steal my KOM Ed?

No, my M5 wants to embarrass itself. It has a propensity for crashing.

 

[Osiris]

No, my M5 wants to embarrass itself. It has a propensity for crashing.

Then it would be morally wrong for me to put you at risk by disclosing it's location.

 

[ed72]

Then it would be morally wrong for me to put you at risk by disclosing it's location.

I found your KoM trail but I also noticed that there was a 20 mph speed limit on it. Do you ever get speeding tickets?

 

[Osiris]

I found your KoM trail but I also noticed that there was a 20 mph speed limit on it. Do you ever get speeding tickets?

I believe the posted speed limit out there is actually 15 mph, but no one pays any attention to that.

 

[ed72]

I believe the posted speed limit out there is actually 15 mph, but no one pays any attention to that.

I'll bring my PBA card just in case.

 

[RojoRacing]

It's been over a year since I've ridden the V20 so any bets on how long before I can match the same power as I currently can on the DF? I'll be getting the V20 out of storage very soon and most likely mounted onto the smart trainer for some zwift racing. I'll bet within the first couple rides you won't be able to tell which bike I'm on just from the power or HR data. Only thing that concerns me is in this last year I had to move from QXL rings to normal Q rings on the DF for reasons I'm still in the dark about and the V20 still has QXL rings on it so I wonder if I'll have to change those as well.

 

[Osiris]

It's been over a year since I've ridden the V20 so any bets on how long before I can match the same power as I currently can on the DF?

I wish that were even remotely possible for me. I've never gotten close to making the same power on any bent as I can on a DF. The difference right now between my V20 and DF is about 90 watts.

 

[Pollock]

My guess is it will take you two weeks to get back to similar power. If it were me, it would be a month

 

[ed72]

It's been over a year since I've ridden the V20 so any bets on how long before I can match the same power as I currently can on the DF? I'll be getting the V20 out of storage very soon and most likely mounted onto the smart trainer for some zwift racing. I'll bet within the first couple rides you won't be able to tell which bike I'm on just from the power or HR data. Only thing that concerns me is in this last year I had to move from QXL rings to normal Q rings on the DF for reasons I'm still in the dark about and the V20 still has QXL rings on it so I wonder if I'll have to change those as well.

No idea but we'd love to see the data.

I haven't given up hope on myself, yet.

 

[ed72]

Thinking more about RoJo's inquiry, I'd guess less than 2 weeks simply because I think "Bent Legs" is bunk, more so for the young endothelial cells amongst us.

 

[RojoRacing]

So I just rode the V20 for the first time in over a year, this is my first bent ride in over a year even if it was only on zwift. Kind of a improv session to make sure the trainer and everything was properly setup in my new room as well as checking if going back to 165mm cranks and QXL rings would feel weird compared to 175mm and Q rings on the DF bike. Cranks and rings felt fine, so much so that I'm questioning if I need to try going back to QXL or even shorter cranks on the DF because I dare say the V20 felt better . I will say that just getting strait into a free ride session where normally I'd be holding 200-220watts I was only at like 170-180. The effort felt like 220 but it wasn't and my HR reflected the lower effort so it was only my perception. I tried to push a bit harder to get into that 250-270 range but it felt like threshold effort(320) and I struggling to maintain again my HR reflected sub threshold effort so still only perception. It was a very short 30 min ride but I will say I felt a difference suddenly going back to the bent so maybe this is a case of no bent legs after a year. I'll try and get in a few longer sessions with some climbs up the watopia mountains to get a better idea. If it is a case of no bent legs we'll see how long it takes to regain my former glory. @trplay can I only add 75 lbs next time we ride due to lack of bent legs?

 

[RojoRacing]

Ok so second ride on the V20 but really this is the first honest effort and again still on zwift. Route was up the watopia mountain all the way to the radio tower and during the flat lead in while just warming up again my normal free ride effort was only netting me like 180 watts. Hell I commuted on my DF for the first time in a year and was just rolling along at 230 watts in a hoody and jeans for 6 miles. Now I will say that once I got into the climb and the trainer started layering on the resistance, I was able to up my power strait up to 300s. I want to say for the first 5 mins it felt harder then normal but then I adapted to the effort. I find on my fast weekend group rides during the 20 min canyon climb I can start into the climb at 170bpm and slowly raise it to just over 180. On today's ride I was about 10bpm lower then those numbers but then if you look at my segment efforts on strava you'll see my avg watts per segment is at 93% of my best effort for similar 20 min efforts. So the watts match the HR values and the perceived effort may be equalizing(jury is still out) but I'll have to keep at with a few more hard efforts to see if I can force my body to adapt. Overall less then 1 hour on a bent and I'm able to hold 93% of my best 20 min power ain't bad. Doesn't leave a very strong defense for bent legs vs DF legs.