bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
That looks like a track bike, not for commuting or touring. How many people on the track have flat pedals and one chainwheel?
Test riding a true racing recumbent
- Thread starter Osiris
- Start date
There are no existing 100, 200, 12H, or 24H recumbent records for 60 year old males, so, I might have a chance. Since Larry is only 59, I have one year on the WUCA or UMCA records. There are WRRA records but not sure if that means anything. UCI records for recumbents...only the hour and not by age category, so, forget that.
Osiris
Zen MBB Master
It's definitely an odd setup as pictured, but the Hammerhead's poor aerodynamics would make it a terrible choice as a track bike. With a normal set of gears, it would make a fine commuter or tourer.
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Osiris
Zen MBB Master
The person selling the Hammerhead mentioned to me that it was a great climber. That's not of much use down here though. What Floridians call a "hill" is a 1% grade.
bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
Commuter and tourer? At least there is a built-in front mudguard, but how would you fit a back one? Lights? Rack? Will it crack if you drill holes in it?
John would make a box for the hammerhead, this would be your rear fender. I did see a picture of one with a tailbox....not big enough for real touring but enough for short one sleeping in a hotel. Lights would have to go onto the bars. The Q45 is probably the best true touring recumbent on the market in my opinion. Based on the numbers Orsiris posted, it looks like the M1 is likely fastest racing recumbent that one can legitimately buy. In terms of very fast and practical recumbents on real roads with traffic, it has to be either the V20 of M5. I wonder which is faster but it probably depends on terrain.
Osiris
Zen MBB Master
Take another look at the picture of the Hammerhead on the previous page. That great big rear fairing is your mudguard, and you could stuff enough in there to go on a camping trip. A headlight could be attached in a number of places with a bit of DIY, but the easiest thing would be to clamp it to the handlebar.
bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
I stand corrected. The space inside that fairing looks bigger than the Silvio's underseat bag. But I can imagine myself spending ages trying to cram stuff into the pointy end.
If you shirk when standing, it sounds like it fits correctly.My Castelli skin suit came in much earlier than expected. I just squeezed myself into it. Man, this thing is tight. Definitely not something you'd want to wear on every ride.
Osiris
Zen MBB Master
Oh, it definitely is my size, despite it's tightness. Not a wrinkle in sight. I can't see wearing it for very long, though.
Seeing how smooth and aero my skinsuit has made me, I'm now more conscious of various parts of the M1 that could use a bit of smoothing, starting with the crankset, which I'd want to look more like this:
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Osiris
Zen MBB Master
This morning I took both the M1 and M5 Highracer out to my new favorite trail to do some speed/power comparisons. This trail is ideal for that sort of thing: flat, lightly traveled, newly paved, and straight as an arrow in long sections. The unpredictable winds that had made last weeks testing a complete failure were gone; not a blade of grass or leaf on the trees was moving this morning. Unfortunately it was a bit cold, so I was forced to wear a fleece lined long sleeved jersey, which, given all its wrinkles and folds, was anything but aerodynamic. No matter, because my only objective was to compare the M1 and M5 at various speeds, not to go for any TT records.
It wasn't quite the apples to apples comparison that I would have liked. The M5 was shod with a pair of GP4000's, whereas the M1 had a 20" Schwalbe Light Stelvio on the front, a slow rolling Gatorskin in back, and two full disk wheels compared to the M5's one. Not sure how much difference that makes, but it's bound to make some.
According to Strava, my test segment is 11 feet above sea level, and this morning's weather forecast indicated 65F and 97% humidity. None of that is ideal for speed testing, but I was only interesting in comparing the two bents under identical environmental conditions.
The first run on the M5 went as well as could be expected. I hadn't ridden it in almost a year, and it felt quite foreign to me after all that time aboard the V20. The first thing I noticed was that my power output was low compared to what I'd grown used to seeing on the V20. It just didn't feel like my muscles were working properly at the M5's more aggressive seat angle, so I picked 25mph as my target speed. I managed to average 25 mph for 4 miles at a very manageable power output of 194 watts. It would be interesting to see how long I can maintain that speed, but this segment ends just before a road crossing, where I would have had to reduce my speed considerably or even stop for approaching traffic, so 4 unspoiled miles was it.
Next up was the M1. The speed to power ratio seemed comparable, but right away I noticed that my arm/hand position on the M1 wasn't nearly as aerodynamic. On the M5, my arms were pressed against my torso, my hands were closer together, and I felt a lot less wind hitting them. Compared to the relatively quiet ride on the M5, I seemed to hear quite a bit more turbulence on the M1. I'm definitely going to have to make some adjustments to the handlebar setup to make it more aero. Unfortunately the test ended abruptly at mile 2, when the front tire deflated almost instantly. I haven't inspected it yet, but the fact that it took only a couple of seconds to lose all pressure suggests a pretty big cut. To make matters worse, I didn't have a spare inner tube for the odd sized front wheel, so I had no option but to walk it back 2 miles to the parking lot. While wearing cleats.
I just looked at the tire, and there's a horizontal cut in the sidewall right where the edge of the rim sits. I seriously doubt that anything on this extremely well maintained trail caused that. Phil did mention to me that he pumped up his tires to ridiculously high pressures before his record attempts, so perhaps weakening the sidewalls is the result. Oh well, at least there's some consolation in knowing that simply installing another inner tube wouldn't have worked, even if I'd had one. Another test will have to wait until next weekend at the earliest.
It wasn't quite the apples to apples comparison that I would have liked. The M5 was shod with a pair of GP4000's, whereas the M1 had a 20" Schwalbe Light Stelvio on the front, a slow rolling Gatorskin in back, and two full disk wheels compared to the M5's one. Not sure how much difference that makes, but it's bound to make some.
According to Strava, my test segment is 11 feet above sea level, and this morning's weather forecast indicated 65F and 97% humidity. None of that is ideal for speed testing, but I was only interesting in comparing the two bents under identical environmental conditions.
The first run on the M5 went as well as could be expected. I hadn't ridden it in almost a year, and it felt quite foreign to me after all that time aboard the V20. The first thing I noticed was that my power output was low compared to what I'd grown used to seeing on the V20. It just didn't feel like my muscles were working properly at the M5's more aggressive seat angle, so I picked 25mph as my target speed. I managed to average 25 mph for 4 miles at a very manageable power output of 194 watts. It would be interesting to see how long I can maintain that speed, but this segment ends just before a road crossing, where I would have had to reduce my speed considerably or even stop for approaching traffic, so 4 unspoiled miles was it.
Next up was the M1. The speed to power ratio seemed comparable, but right away I noticed that my arm/hand position on the M1 wasn't nearly as aerodynamic. On the M5, my arms were pressed against my torso, my hands were closer together, and I felt a lot less wind hitting them. Compared to the relatively quiet ride on the M5, I seemed to hear quite a bit more turbulence on the M1. I'm definitely going to have to make some adjustments to the handlebar setup to make it more aero. Unfortunately the test ended abruptly at mile 2, when the front tire deflated almost instantly. I haven't inspected it yet, but the fact that it took only a couple of seconds to lose all pressure suggests a pretty big cut. To make matters worse, I didn't have a spare inner tube for the odd sized front wheel, so I had no option but to walk it back 2 miles to the parking lot. While wearing cleats.
I just looked at the tire, and there's a horizontal cut in the sidewall right where the edge of the rim sits. I seriously doubt that anything on this extremely well maintained trail caused that. Phil did mention to me that he pumped up his tires to ridiculously high pressures before his record attempts, so perhaps weakening the sidewalls is the result. Oh well, at least there's some consolation in knowing that simply installing another inner tube wouldn't have worked, even if I'd had one. Another test will have to wait until next weekend at the earliest.
bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
If I was a manufacturer of accessories I would 3D print a clip-on plastic fairing for the chainring.
194 watts for 25 mph.....wasn't that also Larry's numbers when he did the 100 mile record.
I had a recumbent bike with 406 (20 inch) tires and you don't have a lot of options in the go fast category. The Ultremo ZX or Schwalbe Pro 0ne are probably the best two for this bike. The narrower Ultremo is probable better aero. Continental used to make the older compounded GT in 406 but I was never able to find one, even in Europe. The tires that the velonauts rave about like the Scorcher tend to be very wide. I have a 451 diameter wheel bike and the Comets are slow....
GL on the replacement. Not much data out there on the small tires.....one source below. On an earlier blog post, he confirms what I said about the Comets.....slow.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PbSImnkmR-0/WHUJNeFxVJI/AAAAAAAAUDs/3S3BeZ6bqPYOkzlA9H3TqVgUCOjoJva1ACLcB/s1600/2017-01-10+15.16.23.jpg
I had a recumbent bike with 406 (20 inch) tires and you don't have a lot of options in the go fast category. The Ultremo ZX or Schwalbe Pro 0ne are probably the best two for this bike. The narrower Ultremo is probable better aero. Continental used to make the older compounded GT in 406 but I was never able to find one, even in Europe. The tires that the velonauts rave about like the Scorcher tend to be very wide. I have a 451 diameter wheel bike and the Comets are slow....
GL on the replacement. Not much data out there on the small tires.....one source below. On an earlier blog post, he confirms what I said about the Comets.....slow.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PbSImnkmR-0/WHUJNeFxVJI/AAAAAAAAUDs/3S3BeZ6bqPYOkzlA9H3TqVgUCOjoJva1ACLcB/s1600/2017-01-10+15.16.23.jpg
bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
Panaracer does 406 and 451
Mini lite......IIRC, it is 32 mm wide. I tried to find one but in the end, I thought the 28 mm wide Pro Ones were pretty good for the type of recreational riding I was doing. At Oriris' planned speeds....both might be draggy.
Osiris
Zen MBB Master
No idea. Larry's power/speed ratios are so different from mine that I don't pay much attention to them. I had the M1 up to 28 mph at one point, but couldn't maintain the wattage. If I could produce as much power as I can on the V20, I could do 28 mph the whole way. I'm going to devote the next few months to riding just the M1 and M5 to see if I can get my legs to adapt to them. It's amazing how different pedaling the M1 feels compared to the V20. With the M1, it feels like the quadriceps are doing all the work, whereas on the V20 it's mostly the hamstrings and glutes; it it takes very hard efforts before my quads even begin to feel fatigued.
Last night I replaced the ruined tire and inner tube with a spare set Phil gave me, but upon reflection I think I'm going to throw those out and buy a new set. The spare tires/tubes he included with the M1 look like they've been sitting an attic for 20 years, and I don't want to risk another blowout. I also moved the grips inward about 2 inches, so that now my hands are completely shielded from the wind by my thighs. Hopefully that will make some noticeable gains in speed. This would all be so much easier if I just had my own wind tunnel.
" If I could produce as much power as I can on the V20, I could do 28 mph the whole way"
Just waggle the M1 bars harder. You'll get the M1 to produce V20 power.
Old tires? No thanks. Good move to dump them. They aren't like fine wine. I just dumped 6 year old Conti Extreme Contacts off my wagon for some Michelin Pilot all seasons because they were getting old. One blowout at 125 mph (autobahn) is enough for me. Crashing on a bike at 20 mph isn't too bad (road rash mostly). That mass time velocity squared thing starts to get interesting around 30 mph. I wouldn't want to jump out of my car at 30 mph in what is in effect pantyhose for protection.
WRT to sore quads on the M1, do you feel a bit cramped on it? It looks small compared to the M5 meaning the distances from crank to seat pan and then to the shoulder support.
Just waggle the M1 bars harder. You'll get the M1 to produce V20 power.
Old tires? No thanks. Good move to dump them. They aren't like fine wine. I just dumped 6 year old Conti Extreme Contacts off my wagon for some Michelin Pilot all seasons because they were getting old. One blowout at 125 mph (autobahn) is enough for me. Crashing on a bike at 20 mph isn't too bad (road rash mostly). That mass time velocity squared thing starts to get interesting around 30 mph. I wouldn't want to jump out of my car at 30 mph in what is in effect pantyhose for protection.
WRT to sore quads on the M1, do you feel a bit cramped on it? It looks small compared to the M5 meaning the distances from crank to seat pan and then to the shoulder support.
Osiris
Zen MBB Master
" If I could produce as much power as I can on the V20, I could do 28 mph the whole way"
Just waggle the M1 bars harder. You'll get the M1 to produce V20 power.
Old tires? No thanks. Good move to dump them. They aren't like fine wine. I just dumped 6 year old Conti Extreme Contacts off my wagon for some Michelin Pilot all seasons because they were getting old. One blowout at 125 mph (autobahn) is enough for me. Crashing on a bike at 20 mph isn't too bad (road rash mostly). That mass time velocity squared thing starts to get interesting around 30 mph. I wouldn't want to jump out of my car at 30 mph in what is in effect pantyhose for protection.
I've crashed twice on the M1 at around 30 mph. Fortunately I'd taken the precaution both times to wear my mountain bike arm protectors, otherwise my left elbow would have been ground down to the bone.
The M5 is made to accommodate riders well over 6 feet tall, whereas the M1 I have was made to fit Phil Plath's 6 foot frame and 32" inseam. He and I are the same size exactly, so it's a snug fit. It's not that I feel "cramped" on the M1, just that there's no room to slide forward or backward on the seat. I think the reason my quads were working so much harder on the M1 is due to the more open hip angle. Riding the M5 had the same effect, though not quite as much as the M1.
