Cruzbike Time Trial Challenge 2020

[LarryOz]

I was just looking through week #10 results that Larry sent (Thanks again Larry!), especially at the bike types, and I have to ask now - What is a "Cruzbike Prototype - X15"?

Rob, This is Kyle Larson's bike. He has names it "X15 Præstø". It is basically the Cruzbike prototype that was named "Magic" but the builder John Morciglio. (I just call my Magic) I was fairly instrumental in getting it designed and built about a year ago. The Parkers, Kyle, and myself have the first 3 prototypes, and I believe John M also has one. Anyone can contact John and have one built for them
Kyle has taken the bike into the speed/power stratosphere in some magical way. He had a special rear case built and installed among a few other aero tricks! He can ride around his twisty curvy 12miles TT down there and average a ridiculous 29.4mph on only 241 watts, and 3.1 W/KG. I have not even come close to that, even setting mine up with a stubby handlebars, full disc wheels, etc on my track testing in Asheville. I am riding mine too in the TT. I have a slightly slower course I think, but as an example. I rode at 3.3 W/Kg for week #10 and only averaged 26.3mph. He is 3+mph faster than me on 0.2 less W/Kg. Not sure if it is the rear case giving the largest aero benefit, but it is amazing nevertheless. As you can see - last week, he just "went easy" = averaging 24.5mph on only 146 average watts! So jealous!

Kyle - You need to go set a WUCA 100 mile record on an out track somewhere. You could no doubt smash my pitiful 3:48:10 = avg 26.23mph I did back in 2017 (https://ultracycling.com/record/larry-oslund-100-mile-outdoor-track-record/) - I say go for it!

 

[Rob Lloyd]

I'd love to see pics of his bike. While I'm happy with the speed of my (RWD) bike, the 'road-worthiness' is not really up to task for the courses I can find around here. Drop chain is not helpful for tight turns, and the narrow gunner bars don't seem to be much help when my speed drops to 12mph on my climbs. So, I'm thinking about a MBB variant of my design with wide bars.

I have no doubt my current bike would be faster around a velodrome, I think an MBB variant might very well be considerably faster over an on-the-road course due the better climbing and turning ability.

 

[LarryOz]

I'd love to see pics of his bike. While I'm happy with the speed of my (RWD) bike, the 'road-worthiness' is not really up to task for the courses I can find around here. Drop chain is not helpful for tight turns, and the narrow gunner bars don't seem to be much help when my speed drops to 12mph on my climbs. So, I'm thinking about a MBB variant of my design with wide bars.

I have no doubt my current bike would be faster around a velodrome, I think an MBB variant might very well be considerably faster over an on-the-road course due the better climbing and turning ability.

Here you go!

 

[Mathew Fy]

My efforts in the afternoon heat seem to be poor. Today I could maintain 206 watts, but only 21.1 mph with very light wind. I expected a faster speed with that. Anyway, I thought I'd share an exciting encounter from today:

 

[RojoRacing]

So you guys have heard me state how strong the mind is in both in positive and negative ways. So today for my TT I tried to trick my brain to unlock a little bit more power. I've always noticed a change in effort when watching something exciting like motocross or even a replay of the TTT I just finished while I'm just in one gear spinning steadily at say 200w. If I'm steady at 200 then when I watch my replay take a pull I find myself getting sucked in and turning the pedals at 220-230 with what feels like no extra effort, it just happens. Now my HR will climb to match that increased effort but the idea is it doesn't feel 10% hard, so maybe you're unlocking a bit with your mind. Also, another thing I notice is during the TT I can't hold over 170bpm, if I go over I'm 1-2 minutes from my breathing going over the top. In the TTT I've over 170 for a lot of the race and even above 175 many times but I never seem to crack like I do on my own so maybe with some visual stimulus I can unlock that extra HR.

So today the test failed but I want to believe there is still something to find in this. At the start of my segment, I flipped my screen over to the start of last weeks TTT. I also set my trainer to the same simulated grade as always so as long as I hold 315ish watts my cadence will be good without me looking. So all I need to do hold my normal cadence and watch the race play out. As I take my pulls or surged to close a gap my cadences climbs without me thinking, I get pulled into the pace. My pedals still feel heavy the whole TT which is something I never notice in any non-solo TT effort so I'm still not sure how to solve that conundrum. Things seemed to be going well for a while and when the pedals started to take on more weight I glance down at my time and I was 12 mins in, that matches up with past attempts at the TT when I fell apart before the finish. I kept my focus on the race but found in between my pulls on screen that I was letting my cadence drop lower and lower and as a result my power as well, It kind of has the ERG spiral of death feel. I kept having to refocus on my legs to keep them spinning fast. I didn't know it at the time but per the data right as I hit 170bpm I cracked like a min later and fell apart having to grab one downshift for a minute to recover and then finish strong again. So I couldn't trick my brain to unlocking my power and my pedals still feel so damn heavy at threshold effort. Maybe I'll try again but reduce my simulated grade a little and see if I'll adopt and naturally faster cadence to lighten the pedals and get more power.

Everyone is other there trying to improve physically and I'm over here trying to unlock the phycological workings of an athlete Don't mind me, just carry on folks, nothing to see here

Larry maybe I can take the trophy for most continuous weeks without a PR

 

[ElyDave]

Jason, you certainly cannot ignore the mental elements of this and I've found similarities with much of what you say over the years. My recent PB this year came when I ignored speed/time/HR and focussed on keeping the cadence high, shifting the gears as I needed. On that run I had to ease off twice for junctions but still PB'd. So I'm with you, if you can trick your mind away from the negative elements whether that's "Oh sh!t how am i holding that power" or "my legs ar about to fall off" or whatever then there are gains to be made. Finding those ways to shift your focus is the individual element.

Have you heard of central governer theory? Might be worth a read. I can certianly relate to it on endurance events like an ultramarathon where I've experienced it directly, but I've not thought about how it might apply on short events like this.

 

[ElyDave]

My efforts in the afternoon heat seem to be poor. Today I could maintain 206 watts, but only 21.1 mph with very light wind. I expected a faster speed with that. Anyway, I thought I'd share an exciting encounter from today:

I thought that was going to be a train when I first looked at that, so many level crossings around me that picking a route is tricky to guarantee no barriers coming down.

I know I could hold around 3-3.1W/kg in TT conditions from winter turbo work, so assuming I can still do that. On my S40 with dyno rear hub, lighting rig, rear rack and rack pack (i.e. touring set-up) that's giving me similar speed to you.
3W/kg is about 210W for me, so very similar.

For fun I might run this route on my stripped down road bike that is currently sat on the turbo trainer.

 

[Rob Lloyd]

So you guys have heard me state how strong the mind is in both in positive and negative ways. So today for my TT I tried to trick my brain to unlock a little bit more power. I've always noticed a change in effort when watching something exciting like motocross or even a replay of the TTT I just finished while I'm just in one gear spinning steadily at say 200w. If I'm steady at 200 then when I watch my replay take a pull I find myself getting sucked in and turning the pedals at 220-230 with what feels like no extra effort, it just happens. Now my HR will climb to match that increased effort but the idea is it doesn't feel 10% hard, so maybe you're unlocking a bit with your mind. Also, another thing I notice is during the TT I can't hold over 170bpm, if I go over I'm 1-2 minutes from my breathing going over the top. In the TTT I've over 170 for a lot of the race and even above 175 many times but I never seem to crack like I do on my own so maybe with some visual stimulus I can unlock that extra HR.

So today the test failed but I want to believe there is still something to find in this. At the start of my segment, I flipped my screen over to the start of last weeks TTT. I also set my trainer to the same simulated grade as always so as long as I hold 315ish watts my cadence will be good without me looking. So all I need to do hold my normal cadence and watch the race play out. As I take my pulls or surged to close a gap my cadences climbs without me thinking, I get pulled into the pace. My pedals still feel heavy the whole TT which is something I never notice in any non-solo TT effort so I'm still not sure how to solve that conundrum. Things seemed to be going well for a while and when the pedals started to take on more weight I glance down at my time and I was 12 mins in, that matches up with past attempts at the TT when I fell apart before the finish. I kept my focus on the race but found in between my pulls on screen that I was letting my cadence drop lower and lower and as a result my power as well, It kind of has the ERG spiral of death feel. I kept having to refocus on my legs to keep them spinning fast. I didn't know it at the time but per the data right as I hit 170bpm I cracked like a min later and fell apart having to grab one downshift for a minute to recover and then finish strong again. So I couldn't trick my brain to unlocking my power and my pedals still feel so damn heavy at threshold effort. Maybe I'll try again but reduce my simulated grade a little and see if I'll adopt and naturally faster cadence to lighten the pedals and get more power.

Everyone is other there trying to improve physically and I'm over here trying to unlock the phycological workings of an athlete Don't mind me, just carry on folks, nothing to see here

Larry maybe I can take the trophy for most continuous weeks without a PR

I find that I put forth a much bigger effort when I ride 'angry'. Maybe I need to pick a fight with my wife before I go out this week...

 

[LarryOz]

I find that I put forth a much bigger effort when I ride 'angry'. Maybe I need to pick a fight with my wife before I go out this week...

Talking about ANGER!
I went out this morning and averaged close to my best wattage so far this year... I was all prepped to set a new PB by maybe 15-20 secs. Then came the garbage truck stopped dead to the entrance of my final round-about - with a pickup truck behind it. I had to nearly stop -and went through the roundabout at a walking pace following these 2 vehicles. The guy in the truck even crowded me into the curb to prevent me from passing him and the garage truck - all the way down the road to the end of my TT. REALLY! - Instead of setting a PB, I fell short by 15 secs! Talk about ANGRY!
If I had had time this morning I would have tried to run the TT again with all that ANGER and see what I could do.
Hopefully I can bottle it up and re-apply the ANGER this next Saturday when I try again ! - Hopefully I won't blow between now and then! haha

 

[ElyDave]

^^^That's why I changed my route this year, garbage truck squeeze at PB Pace. In my case single track road, no room around the garbage truck. Too easy to foresee that happening again, and again ...
The guy in the pickup truck sounds like a piece of work - I had that happen to me on a club TT through some temporary speed restrictions to 20mph, I was doing about 22-23 on that section adn this guy was swerving around to stop me passing. We "had words" through his drivers window as I eventually passed . He then pulled ahead and stopped to take my photo

 

[LarryOz]

Hey all - You may or may not know this (or even care! haha) - but I am the record chair for WUCA and certify dozens of records every year for them (from 100Km to 1000Km, cross country, cross state, etc.) I know it does not have anything to do with our TT - but you just have to check out this 24 hour ride this guy did over in Luxembourg around a reservoir (it is 2.7 miles around - and obviously very flat! - This is absolutely amazing! The power this guy put out is just "stupid" - He average 279 watts for the entire 24 hours and had an average speed of 24.2mph (and avg HR= 123) for the entire time. What's more is that he averaged 337 watts (@139bpm) for the first 4 hours with an average speed of 26.7mph. I do not know what he weights in at (working on that) so don't really know his W/KG - but I will be it is pretty high!

https://www.strava.com/activities/3751682229/overview

Mentioning him on this forum, because I am trying to convince him into getting setup on a Cruzbike and giving it another attempt in a month or so. Wouldn't that be awesome. No one has ever ridden 1000km in 24 hours on any unfaired bike, but I think he could probably do it!

My mouth is just watering at having a place like this to ride a record attempt! May to need take take a trip to Luxembourg when this Covid thing is over!

 

[RojoRacing]

Hey all - You may or may not know this (or even care! haha) - but I am the record chair for WUCA and certify dozens of records every year for them (from 100Km to 1000Km, cross country, cross state, etc.) I know it does not have anything to do with our TT - but you just have to check out this 24 hour ride this guy did over in Luxembourg around a reservoir (it is 2.7 miles around - and obviously very flat! - This is absolutely amazing! The power this guy put out is just "stupid" - He average 279 watts for the entire 24 hours and had an average speed of 24.2mph (and avg HR= 123) for the entire time. What's more is that he averaged 337 watts (@139bpm) for the first 4 hours with an average speed of 26.7mph. I do not know what he weights in at (working on that) so don't really know his W/KG - but I will be it is pretty high!

https://www.strava.com/activities/3751682229/overview

Mentioning him on this forum, because I am trying to convince him into getting setup on a Cruzbike and giving it another attempt in a month or so. Wouldn't that be awesome. No one has ever ridden 1000km in 24 hours on any unfaired bike, but I think he could probably do it!

My mouth is just watering at having a place like this to ride a record attempt! May to need take take a trip to Luxembourg when this Covid thing is over!

View attachment 9700

Yeah but you have to take off 25% of his power because he'll be on a bent

 

[benphyr]

Yeah but you have to take off 25% of his power because he'll be on a bent

@RojoRacing @LarryOz can take you too as the steady power representative?

 

[Rob Lloyd]

Well, here’s what my anger did for me tonight...

I started my TT, then ran up the bumper of a brake-happy Buick. So, I waved off at the guard shack turn, called it a warmup, u-turned back to the start to run it again.

2nd time out, a car (with a bike on a rack on the back, you’d think a cyclist would be more polite to another cyclist) backed out right in front of me as I was leaving the starting parking lot. It’s a small climb out of the lot, and I did not want to be held up behind him for the next 3miles. So, I spooled it up and passed him in the left lane. Hit 815w on that pass. I’ve only ever been able to hit that on the trainer. Held over 700w for about a tenth of a mile. That little climb put me 30sec ahead of my all time PR for the first 8miles of my TT run. Then, I was wasted and dropped off. Finished 8sec slower than my all-time PR.

I passed a beginner road bike group from the LBS. Heard one of them say ‘there he goes!’ Like they were waiting for me to fly by.

This ride set my power curve (every part of it) for the last 6 weeks. Not quite for the whole year. I’ve done more on the trainer earlier this spring.

Got video of the car and my climb. I’ll post it as soon as it’s done processing...

 

[LarryOz]

Hey all - You may or may not know this (or even care! haha) - but I am the record chair for WUCA and certify dozens of records every year for them (from 100Km to 1000Km, cross country, cross state, etc.) I know it does not have anything to do with our TT - but you just have to check out this 24 hour ride this guy did over in Luxembourg around a reservoir (it is 2.7 miles around - and obviously very flat! - This is absolutely amazing! The power this guy put out is just "stupid" - He average 279 watts for the entire 24 hours and had an average speed of 24.2mph (and avg HR= 123) for the entire time. What's more is that he averaged 337 watts (@139bpm) for the first 4 hours with an average speed of 26.7mph. I do not know what he weights in at (working on that) so don't really know his W/KG - but I will be it is pretty high!

https://www.strava.com/activities/3751682229/overview

Mentioning him on this forum, because I am trying to convince him into getting setup on a Cruzbike and giving it another attempt in a month or so. Wouldn't that be awesome. No one has ever ridden 1000km in 24 hours on any unfaired bike, but I think he could probably do it!

My mouth is just watering at having a place like this to ride a record attempt! May to need take take a trip to Luxembourg when this Covid thing is over!

OK - Ralph replied back to me. He said he is 82-83Kg and 6'1".
If we take his "high" weight at 83Kg, that putts his 4 hour power ratio at an "insane" - 337/83Kg = 4.1W/Kg - Gosh, I am just struggling to get my 20 min power ratio to that!haha
What's more, his 24 hour power = 279W/83Kg = 3.4 W/Kg - That is truly incredible! Ralph is 44 years young!

 

[nobrakes]

That's amazing. Get him on Magic!

 

[ElyDave]

Question for Larry - do we have a protocol to cover being unable to ride a route due to roadworks? I drove through part of my route today and I'm not sure if it will be passable by the weekend or not - there are traffic controlled sections at the moment, plus other signs seemed to be going up.

 

[LarryOz]

Question for Larry - do we have a protocol to cover being unable to ride a route due to roadworks? I drove through part of my route today and I'm not sure if it will be passable by the weekend or not - there are traffic controlled sections at the moment, plus other signs seemed to be going up.

This has not come up yet - although I figured it would eventually.
I would say that if you are caused to come to a complete stop due to road-work, etc. and then are able to complete the route, that it would be fair to "remove" the time that you are at a complete stop. Obviously this could be "abused" by a crafty person who kills themselve to get to their "turnaround" - comes to to a complete stop for 30 minutes to "rest" and then takes off all rested to complete the "other half" of their route.
I guess we could "require" a photo of the cyclist in front of the obstruction to prevent that from happening..(Thinking out loud now.. sorry)
...
Ok - That seems like a realist solution - let's put it up to a the group and see if we get any "huge" objections or if someone comes up with a hole in my plan or a better idea:

So the suggested process for coming up to a "temp road closure on your TT route" could be:

• If you are stopped dead due to road-work or some other issue out of your control:
• Leave you Garmin (or Strava on your phone) running (and do not have it set to auto-pause)
• Take a photo with you phone of you in the foreground and the "issue" in the back ground to prove there is something there causing you to stop.
• Complete the ride as normal.
• Attached you photo(s) to the Strava ride.
• Put in your comments what the issue was and estimate how long you think you were stopped.
• I will take the file, and analyze the date to determine how long the Garmin said you were totally stopped and subtract that from you Segment time.

..
Ultimately you will still end up loosing time since you had to stop and start up again - so this is just a stop gap to allow someone to get a time. Obviously if there are multiple "stops like this" along your route it would decimate your time even if you were able to take off the time that you were stopped. If that happens, best thing would be to find another route and go through that process..
..

 

[benphyr]

Well, here’s what my anger did for me tonight...

I started my TT, then ran up the bumper of a brake-happy Buick. So, I waved off at the guard shack turn, called it a warmup, u-turned back to the start to run it again.

2nd time out, a car (with a bike on a rack on the back, you’d think a cyclist would be more polite to another cyclist) backed out right in front of me as I was leaving the starting parking lot. It’s a small climb out of the lot, and I did not want to be held up behind him for the next 3miles. So, I spooled it up and passed him in the left lane. Hit 815w on that pass. I’ve only ever been able to hit that on the trainer. Held over 700w for about a tenth of a mile. That little climb put me 30sec ahead of my all time PR for the first 8miles of my TT run. Then, I was wasted and dropped off. Finished 8sec slower than my all-time PR.

I passed a beginner road bike group from the LBS. Heard one of them say ‘there he goes!’ Like they were waiting for me to fly by.

This ride set my power curve (every part of it) for the last 6 weeks. Not quite for the whole year. I’ve done more on the trainer earlier this spring.

Got video of the car and my climb. I’ll post it as soon as it’s done processing...

Are you going to start a self help programme called “harnessing the power of anger”? Soon you will not only be faster but richer and viral-er also. The youtube type once you post you ride video.

 

[Rob Lloyd]

Are you going to start a self help programme called “harnessing the power of anger”? Soon you will not only be faster but richer and viral-er also. The youtube type once you post you ride video.

Not a bad idea, I should do it...

Of course, as my wife points out, I'm just a cranky old man. Maybe that's not such enthralling entertainment. There's lots of crank old men out there...