Test riding a true racing recumbent

[ed72]

I hear ya on the housing thru the frame. A PITA. I replaced the brake cable housing and even with various tricks, it wasn't a walk in the park.

I can't wait to see whether you go faster with the new bars. Being able to shift without moving hands while travelling at speed is very helpful to me especially if crosswinds.

 

[3bs]

that set up is really interesting. i am not sure i have the gunner grip mentality. on my m5m i run a flat bar which allows me to just hang my hands on the bar and keep my elbows in. i wonder how that set up will feel on the wrists, and whether you will get grip fatigue.

 

[Osiris]

I hear ya on the housing thru the frame. A PITA. I replaced the brake cable housing and even with various tricks, it wasn't a walk in the park.

Replacing it wasn't that difficult. All I had to do was tape the end of the old cable to the end of the new cable and slowly pull them through the frame. As long as the tape doesn't come apart, it's no problem. But trying to feed a cable through the frame and out a tiny hole on the other end without something acting as a guide would be another story.

I can't wait to see whether you go faster with the new bars. Being able to shift without moving hands while travelling at speed is very helpful to me especially if crosswinds.

Based on what I saw with a similar handlebar setup on the M1, it should (+0.3 mph). But my main reason for doing this is because I was never satisfied with the stock M5 handlebar. The geometry put my hands in an unnatural angle and the brake levers would begin to bite into my fingers after only an hour or so of riding. Then I got a close look at Ben Tomblin's M5, and noticed that his brake levers were upside down. The only way he could get that arrangement to work was to use a set of e-tap buttons, so that's what started me on the road to electronic shifting. Hopefully it's not something I'll end up regretting.

 

[Osiris]

that set up is really interesting. i am not sure i have the gunner grip mentality. on my m5m i run a flat bar which allows me to just hang my hands on the bar and keep my elbows in. i wonder how that set up will feel on the wrists, and whether you will get grip fatigue.

The rendering on the previous page isn't how it actually came out. I ended up angling the grips so that they're closer to horizontal rather than vertical. That's how they are on my M1 as well, and it allows me to hang my hands from the grips loosely without getting grip fatigue.

 

[ed72]

Osiris, just to be clear....I wasn't talking about the cable. A new cable housing with the tight openings on either end are more challenging than just a cable, which is very easy. Don't miss it at all.

 

[Osiris]

Osiris, just to be clear....I wasn't talking about the cable. A new cable housing with the tight openings on either end are more challenging than just a cable, which is very easy. Don't miss it at all.

Right. I was using the word "cable" when describing the cable housing. I seem to recall that there's a special tool for feeding a cable housing through the frame using a magnet, but I don't remember how it works. I would have preferred leaving the old housing in place, but the protruding ends would have been unsightly. Now I'm wondering what I can use to plug the holes left behind.

I got the M1 back from the shop on Friday, but haven't had time to test ride it. We were successful in moving the BB 3/4" forward so that now my legs can extend properly. It will be interesting to see if that increases the amount of power I can produce. I have it on the trainer, so I may run some tests tonight. Given how fast it already was at relatively low power outputs, if I can hold ~220 watts, I might be close to my long term goal of managing a cruising speed of ~30 mph.

 

[bladderhead]

How hard would it be for a frame manufacturer to put a thin tube inside the frame, connecting the holes, so you could feed cables through?

 

[Osiris]

How hard would it be for a frame manufacturer to put a thin tube inside the frame, connecting the holes, so you could feed cables through?

It shouldn't be difficult. That's what kayak manufacturers do in order to feed the rudder cables through.

 

[Osiris]

I hear ya on the housing thru the frame. A PITA. I replaced the brake cable housing and even with various tricks, it wasn't a walk in the park.

I can't wait to see whether you go faster with the new bars. Being able to shift without moving hands while travelling at speed is very helpful to me especially if crosswinds.

I was in the process of mounting the e-tap derailleurs last night when I noticed that the front derailleur didn't come with the ring clamp I need. It's a minor item, but considering the obscene price SRAM charges for the e-tap system, it should have been included in the box. But I'm wondering now whether I should even bother with a front derailleur. Thinking back on it, I've never used anything other than the big chain ring on any of my bents. That additional lump of metal and plastic up front won't be performing any function, and just adds weight and aerodynamic drag. Perhaps I'm better off selling the derailleur on e-bay.

Happily the installation of the rear derailleur went without a hitch, though I notice it's grinding in a couple of places. I'm not feeling adventurous, so I'll just bring it to the bike shop this weekend. They've got plenty of experience setting up the e-tap system, so it should be easy for them to fine tune it.

 

[ed72]

FD does help keep the chain happy. Be careful....talk to your shop.

Your bike shop should check the alignment of the rear derailleur hanger if the gears are clickity clacking in just some gears. Otherwise, it is just the fine tuning and it is done using the blipbox. This is like the barrel adjustment on a mechanical derailleur. See video starting at 6:04

 

[Osiris]

FD does help keep the chain happy. Be careful....talk to your shop.

My M1 only has a rear derailleur and I've had no issues. There is however a carbon fiber plate mounted on the outside of the 53T gear, presumably to prevent the chain from falling off. I've had chains drop off on various bikes/bents, but in each case it was caused by the front derailleur being out of adjustment and pushing the chain too far over.

Your bike shop should check the alignment of the rear derailleur hanger if the gears are clickity clacking in just some gears. Otherwise, it is just the fine tuning and it is done using the blipbox. This is like the barrel adjustment on a mechanical derailleur. See video starting at 6:04

Thanks, that tells me exactly what I needed to know. The M5 is still on the trainer, so I'll try that procedure tonight. It's odd that the only time I hear a grinding noise is when the chain is somewhere in the middle of the cassette. That suggests that either the derailleur arm isn't moving the same distance with each shift, or that the gears themselves aren't evenly spaced. I can't remember having encountered this problem when installing a mechanical derailleur; either all of the gears were grinding or none of them were. Maybe I've just been lucky.

 

[ed72]

The Park hanger alignment tool is pretty cheap. What I have found is if not all gears are grinding, check alignment. If most or all are grinding, tweak the barrel adjuster. On my Cervelo, the hanger was weak and would always get bent. I can't decide which issue I have right now but considering someone seems to have knocked my bent over while parked at a biker bar the other day, I suspect my hanger is bent but the M5 hanger is tank-like in construction. Checking is a pain because it doesn't fit on my Park Stand. Maybe I'll wax the chain and put it on the trainer to check.

I could be wrong but the rear derailleur etap won't tension the long chain very well increasing the chances of derailment off the front single ring. I might be overly cautious. I know unclipping (Frogs) is very unnerving.

 

[Osiris]

The Park hanger alignment tool is pretty cheap. What I have found is if not all gears are grinding, check alignment. If most or all are grinding, tweak the barrel adjuster. On my Cervelo, the hanger was weak and would always get bent. I can't decide which issue I have right now but considering someone seems to have knocked my bent over while parked at a biker bar the other day, I suspect my hanger is bent but the M5 hanger is tank-like in construction. Checking is a pain because it doesn't fit on my Park Stand. Maybe I'll wax the chain and put it on the trainer to check.

I could be wrong but the rear derailleur etap won't tension the long chain very well increasing the chances of derailment off the front single ring. I might be overly cautious. I know unclipping (Frogs) is very unnerving.

After spending over an hour trying unsuccessfully to get the rear derailleur to shift properly, I gave up and dropped it off at a local bike shop. It's the same place Ben Tomblin took his M5 to have the e-tap system installed, so they assured me they could make it work.

I have to say, I can't think of another product that I've ever purchased over the years that was such a complete failure right out of the box. It's an unqualified disaster. I've had other defective products work partially or temporarily, but never had something that just didn't work at all. It's all the more infuriating because SRAM's videos make installation and setup look almost effortless. You have to search for other videos end users have uploaded to fully appreciate just how many ways the system can malfunction. Absolutely appalling.

 

[Osiris]

I took the newly repaired M1 out to my "test track" this morning. The repairs to the steerer tube worked perfectly. Now I know that steerer tubes can indeed be repaired, despite what dealers say.

Not having ridden the M1 for three weeks, it felt very twitchy at first. It took about 20 miles of riding it before I could keep it going in a perfectly straight line with a relaxed grip. After 30 miles, I felt completely at home on it. This isolated trail is a favorite for TT racers, and they were out in full force today. I had a bit of fun sneaking up and passing them before they even realized I was there. One of them tried to give chase, but gave up after a couple of miles. I really wonder if the adrenaline rush of being in a live race (as opposed to a Strava race) actually boosts my power output. I've never held 28-29 mph for as long as I did today, and there was no sign of a tailwind that could have been helping me.

The main reason I took it in to the bike shop several weeks ago was to see if they could remove some material from the frame so that the BB could be moved forward 3/4" of an inch, allowing my legs to fully extend without feeling cramped. Other bent riders like Larry Oz said modifications like this were easy to do with a Dremel set, but I didn't feel confident enough to attempt it myself. The result was everything I had hoped it would be. Not only does pedaling feel much more natural now, but I'm pretty sure I can generate a bit more power. Even when I was exhausted after several "races" with the TT guys, I could still hold ~200 watts for the remaining 10 miles back to the trailhead, something I've never managed to do before. In fact, I beat one of my own KOM's on the way. What I still can't seem to do is maintain significantly more power (~250W) for as long as I can on either the V20 or M5. I'm not certain why, but I think it has something to do with the more reclined seating position on the M1. I had someone snap this photo in the parking lot so that I could get some angle measurements. I'll do the same on my V20 and M5 to see how they compare.

 

[Osiris]

I finally got the M5 back from the shop. It seems that the shifting problems I encountered while trying to set up the e-tap system were because the rear wheel was out of alignment slightly, causing the derailleur to bump up against the disk wheel and preventing it from lining up properly with the cassette. Once that was corrected, it only required a bit of fiddling with the trim settings to get it to shift correctly. Below is a photo showing the handlebar setup. The hollow tiller tube has openings milled into it to route the cables through, making for a very clean look. The e-tap blip box found a natural home near the base of the tiller where the wires and rear brake cable emerge from one of the openings:

 

[ed72]

Nice report Osiris. The bars look sweet. Looks fast, too.

Interesting you can make so much more power on the V20. Who knows.

Are you using the same power meter?

My FTP started creeping up. I was so excited until it really went up like crazy up. 365 watts average for slightly uphill 8.64 mile segment. THEN, I knew it was screwed up. I did get 6th place on the segment and was almost coasting 20 mph on the last mile because I had no idea there was a segment there. About 2600 riders have ridden that stretch. I put another PM on....bummer. What was slightly confusing? I was getting stronger as evidenced by breaking PB on hill climbs including a few set on my upright, so, I was pretty stoked.

I guess I need to replace the Powertap hub unless any Swifters want to buy it from me. Adds 80-100 watts. $10,000 plus Fedex fees. Guaranteed to place every race.

 

[Osiris]

Nice report Osiris. The bars look sweet. Looks fast, too.

I'm pretty happy with the results, but I would have preferred another kind of bar tape. The shop I brought it to uses something that resembles electrical tape, and it just looks ugly. Fortunately it turns out that the blip buttons need to be moved up a bit, so I have a convenient excuse for replacing all that tape.

It started storming here this afternoon so I didn't have the opportunity to test the new handlebars; that will have to wait until Sunday. I did however have time to take the M1 for a spin early in the morning, and set some blistering times. I'm bothered by the fact that sometimes there's a little bit of air space between my upper arms and torso, which I'm sure is causing more drag than if my arms were pressed firmly against my rib cage. I'm going to try moving the grips closer together to resolve the issue. Hopefully that will also place my forearms in a more aero position as well.

Interesting you can make so much more power on the V20. Who knows.

Are you using the same power meter?

Sort of. The V20 has the newest Vector 3's, whereas my other bents have the older style Vector 2's. The newest Vectors are supposed to be slightly more accurate, but field tests show virtually no difference. What I like about the Vector system is that they measure the power your legs are actually putting out, whereas a hub mounted system would be slightly off due to drive-train losses. The downside is that it can't therefore measure any benefits afforded by my V20's FWD system, which theoretically should produce less friction than my other RWD bents.

My FTP started creeping up. I was so excited until it really went up like crazy up. 365 watts average for slightly uphill 8.64 mile segment. THEN, I knew it was screwed up. I did get 6th place on the segment and was almost coasting 20 mph on the last mile because I had no idea there was a segment there. About 2600 riders have ridden that stretch. I put another PM on....bummer. What was slightly confusing? I was getting stronger as evidenced by breaking PB on hill climbs including a few set on my upright, so, I was pretty stoked.

I hate it when I'm forced to use Strava segments for my training that were created by other people. Many of them seem to start and end in totally arbitrary places, so you can never be sure where they begin and end. The mile long hill climb segment I use is one of those. Recently I made a huge improvement, moving up from 9th place to 2nd place. I attributed that to a big increase in average power, but that may simply be due to the fact that I started the climb later than I usually do, so I had more energy in reserve.

I'm going to start training with a couple of TT racers I met a couple of weeks ago on the trail. These guys are very serious and very fast, so that will force me to train in a more disciplined manner. They like to do 7 minute intervals followed by 3 minutes of rest, done over a 50 mile distance. I'm not sure what that will do for me, but I'm hoping it will improve my endurance, which is still woefully lacking. If I wasn't on a recumbent, I couldn't keep those guys in sight for more than a minute.

Today I averaged 30.9 mph on a mile long segment. Average power was 245 W, which is the best I've managed on the M1, especially since I was already tired from two previous sprints. I had the feeling that I was being helped by a slight tailwind, but when I stopped I couldn't feel anything. I'll want to do that segment several more times to see if that power level is in fact accurate for that speed. It sounds a bit too good to be true.

 

[ed72]

Intervals in the 5-8 minute range are generally called VO2 Max intervals and as the name implies, they are very effective at raising it. They are very painful when done properly. They also require the legs to be absolutely fresh in order to do them right. Stephen Seiler's study shows the effectiveness of them. I could never do them more frequently than every 5 days. Younger or stronger riders might be better at recovery and getting stronger but there is no question that you should improve TT performance if you do those intervals regularly. Pay close attention....3 minutes is probably as long as you want to rest between repetitions. I used to do 5 x 6 minutes and could only finish the fifth one at the requisite power IF in great shape. Cursing (loudly) at your legs helps.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21812820

 

[Osiris]

Intervals in the 5-8 minute range are generally called VO2 Max intervals and as the name implies, they are very effective at raising it. They are very painful when done properly. They also require the legs to be absolutely fresh in order to do them right. Stephen Seiler's study shows the effectiveness of them. I could never do them more frequently than every 5 days. Younger or stronger riders might be better at recovery and getting stronger but there is no question that you should improve TT performance if you do those intervals regularly. Pay close attention....3 minutes is probably as long as you want to rest between repetitions. I used to do 5 x 6 minutes and could only finish the fifth one at the requisite power IF in great shape. Cursing (loudly) at your legs helps.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21812820

Endurance is definitely my weak spot. It probably always will be, but I'm determined to improve it. Over the past few weeks I've been training on segments 3, 4, and 7 miles in length. I hadn't seen the results of this until I happened to do a 1 mile segment yesterday. It seemed so much easier than before, and I was able to maintain the same power output all the way from beginning to end. Usually I'd see a big drop in power in the final quarter of the run, but this time I felt as if I could have kept going. It wasn't long after this that I set a new personal record on a 4 mile segment, easily beating my previous KOM.

 

[Osiris]

Just got back from a 45 mile test ride on my M5. The winds out there were all wrong for speed/power testing, with powerful gusts seeming to come from every direction at once, so I just rode at a comfortable pace the whole way.

The etap system performed well, though in terms of functionality I still don't think it's any better than the mechanical SRAM shifters I had before. My one complaint about the etap blip buttons is that they require more pressure than I'd like to initiate a shift, and they can only be pressed in the center of the button, which with my XL hands, meant having to use the tips of my thumbs. It's not ideal, but I'll probably get used to them in time.

The real star of the show was the new handlebar configuration. It does everything right: it makes steering inputs more precise, it places my hands and wrist bones in a perfectly natural position, it has almost eliminated hand fatigue even after a long ride, and its far more aero than the stock handlebar, which formed my palms and brake levers to face into the wind. I'm going to use the scanner tomorrow to calculate how much surface area of my hands is facing into the wind with this setup, compared to what I had before. I expect that the difference will be pretty significant, but even if it only saves a few watts, that's free power that can be put to better use elsewhere.