2022 Vendetta V20c with carbon fiber front end

[chicorider]

I ride JCOB carbon cranks, 160mm. They have a more affordable aluminum crank in 150/155 length. These use the Shimano 24mm spindle, which will fit the appropriate T47 bb just fine. Here's the link:

https://speedandcomfort.com/collections/short-cranksets

 

[vosadrian]

I have these low cost 155mm cranks on my V20: https://www.ebay.com/itm/194306075275 Not sure if they will fit the new V20C.

What are the benefits of this new carbon front end over the old? It seems weight reductions are minimal, and probably similar aero also. No option for rim brakes on new setup? It seems to me that for someone who is going for all out speed on flat courses in good weather conditions, the old V20 would not be at a disadvantage. Seems the new would be better if disc brake is a requirement as the new thru axle would give better disc brake wheel support. So better for wet weather/hilly terrain.

I'm not knocking the new design. It seems a step forward for new buyers with new wheel options. But if you have a V20 with good wheels etc. it may not be worth upgrading unless you are not happy with your existing wheel/brakes.

 

[Apollo]

I have these low cost 155mm cranks on my V20: https://www.ebay.com/itm/194306075275 Not sure if they will fit the new V20C.

What are the benefits of this new carbon front end over the old? It seems weight reductions are minimal, and probably similar aero also. No option for rim brakes on new setup? It seems to me that for someone who is going for all out speed on flat courses in good weather conditions, the old V20 would not be at a disadvantage. Seems the new would be better if disc brake is a requirement as the new thru axle would give better disc brake wheel support. So better for wet weather/hilly terrain.

I'm not knocking the new design. It seems a step forward for new buyers with new wheel options. But if you have a V20 with good wheels etc. it may not be worth upgrading unless you are not happy with your existing wheel/brakes.

The V20C is somewhat lighter, aero and stiffer. It has internal cable management and improved boom clamping mechanism. It supports the new T47 BB specification, 12mm thru axles and has a modern tapered fork steerer. There's also a new seat design that looks size adjustable. That's it in a nutshell unless I missed something. As I posted on the first page, each one of these upgrades by itself isn't highly significant or worth splurging on, but as a whole package might be a sensible purchase for the competitive cyclist or Cruzbike connoisseur.

My main gripe is the modern wheel requirement but it's by no means a critique on Cruzbike. The company is moving forward with current standards and shouldn't be faulted for that. The whole industry has made the shift to disc brakes and thru-axles for road wheels. Nothing can be done about it. All of my wheelsets are 'obsolete' and to purchase a V20C would entail new wheels. To ride on similar quality wheels as the ones I currently ride would make the whole bike cost incredibly prohibitive for someone who does not race. It's not worth it for me, but could be for others who obviously have deeper pockets and race in competitions several times a season.

The old Vendettas going back to V1 are still competitive. Don't anyone think otherwise. Put Larry, Jason, Jim, Maria, etc on a V1 and 99% of the rest of us on a V20C and we will still be eating their dust...

 

[vosadrian]

Lighter is good any day, but in percentage terms it is low difference... Even less as percentage of system including rider. And the V20 is more made for flat roads where weight is not an issue as much. Aero remains to be seen. I suspect it will be negligiable the aero benefit as the primay benefit of the V20 is the body position. Stiffness.... not sure the V20 was lacking and the style of riding (TT constant speed) does not benefit much from stiffness (I like a stiff DF where you spring at >1000W). Adjustable seat would be good! That is probably the most appealing thing of this version. I have carbon DF bikes and the benefits of carbon for DF are very noticable. I feel they will be less noticable on this style of bike.

I'm with you. I actually think rim brakes are probably more aero then disc and work well on a TT style bike. I am perfectly happy with my rim brakes... but I don't ride the mountains in the wet on this bike. I have lots of rim brake wheel options from my DF riding, so prefer to have all my bikes on one wheel system.

But that is me.... For someone coming into this style of bike for the first time without part compatability issues, the V20C makes a lot of sense and all else being equal, I would prefer the new bike. I don't blame CB for going this way, as all other bike manufacturers are doing the same. Of course it is great for the bike industry as it forces people to spend more money!!

I did a race late last year with @jond on an early Vendetta. He did not appear to be disadvantaged in any way to my near new V20!!

 

[Randyc3]

older V20 and the only major problem is my lousy rim brakes,

Hi, on my DFs I started running Shimano Br8000s. They are (symmetric)dual pivot brakes which seem to have a little better stopping power. Not sure if this would apply but keeping my spare set just in case I see that special older V20 in the future.

 

[Karl42]

I ride JCOB carbon cranks, 160mm. They have a more affordable aluminum crank in 150/155 length. These use the Shimano 24mm spindle, which will fit the appropriate T47 bb just fine. Here's the link:
https://speedandcomfort.com/collections/short-cranksets

I have these low cost 155mm cranks on my V20: https://www.ebay.com/itm/194306075275 Not sure if they will fit the new V20C.

Thanks for the links. I already knew about the JCOB cranks, but not about that BBK version from ebay. Also, the JCOB carbon crank doesn't seem to available in sizes shorter than 165mm anymore. Both of these would work on the new V20c, but both are compact cranks. The JCOB cranks seem to have fixed chainrings at 34/50, and the BBK one has mounting holes with a 110mm Bold Circle Diameter, so the smallest chainring there would be 33t.

Which means to get mountain gearing with those, I would need a larger cassette and heavier rear derailleur. With my current setup, I use a small front chainring (26t) with an SRAM Red 22 rear derailleur (163g) with a light 11-32 cassette (196g), for a total of 359g. For equivalent gearing ratios on a compact crank, I could use, for example: SRAM Eagle XX1 RD at 270g with SRAM XX1 cassette 11-42 at 263g for a total of 533g.
So all other things being equal, changing my gearing system would incur a weight penalty of at least 174g, which would reduce the weight advantage of the V20c from 370g to less than 200g.

Going all 1x would lose the front derailleur (74g), but make the cassette even heavier (375g for 10-52 vs 196g for 11-32). However, there are a lot of other factors coming in with 1x, like smaller front chainring, less cables, possibly lighter braker lever etc, so the total weight for 1x might be less, even against my custom setup, but only barely so.

The oversized front quick release of the old V20 weighs 59g. I wonder if the equivalent oversized thru axle will be much heavier (or lighter?) than that. I suspect it will be heavier. And in both cases, it is hard to find aftermarket lightweight parts because of the non-standard length.

In any case, counting grams is a fun exercise for those so inclined, but in practice, with equivalent components, both the old and the new V20 will probably be so close to each other in terms of weight that the difference will barely matter (at least with components that meet my personal requirements).

 

[vosadrian]

I've done counting grams on my DFs. It was interesting, but ultimately I found that I could not detect <1kg difference on a 7kg bike. I weigh around 70kg, so total weight around 77kg, and weight difference around 1%. I would hope for a climbing PR up some 4km 10 minute 5-10% average climbs around me, and other variables made more difference to the times so I could not detect the weight difference. I tried going without water bottles to eek out seconds, but would then go slower. Ultimately I learned that small weight differences make a much lower difference then how you feel on the day! My fastest climb times are on my heavier aero wheels! So I stopped emptying my water bottle at the bottom of the climb and I climbed at the same times and had a drink at the top!!

I still do enjoy really light wheels for the acceleration feel in a sprint on my DF! I can feel the lightness in rotating mass.

 

[Karl42]

I've done counting grams on my DFs. It was interesting, but ultimately I found that I could not detect <1kg difference on a 7kg bike.

I have never really counted grams before, and I do long self-supported rides on my V20, which means I have to carry lots of clothing, water, food, patch kits, and tools, as well as lights and a battery pack, so the total weight with everything is a lot more than the naked bike anyway. I do notice the weight difference between full and empty water tank (1.5l camelbak), but as I need the water, it doesn't matter.

I just started to calculate those weights to consider if the new V20c is worth it for me, and so far my calculations indicate that the net effect in terms of weight difference would be minimal.

 

[Bill Wightman]

I still do enjoy really light wheels for the acceleration feel in a sprint on my DF! I can feel the lightness in rotating mass.

This is a little off topic...I ride with a group of crazy 30-40 year old DF cyclists who accelerate hard at any opportunity usually leaving me temporarily breathless. The most noticeable improvement in acceleration is simply skipping a meal the day before the ride or cutting back on the snacks in the week before. These little things can cause a 1/2 pound drop in weight (some is water weight), even if short term. Also carry just enough water for these shorter sprint rides and never let a gap develop, even though the V20 is ~25-30% more aero at 20-30 mph than a DF, it is still very hard to catch a motivated peloton of strong riders. The body is 80% of the problem.

 

[Karl42]

After much web search for short cranks, I found the website of Zinn Bicycles, who offer various custom cranks. In particular, their mountain bike cranks include models with a 24mm axle and 64/104bcd chainring mounts, which would allow the sub-compact setup that I want for high-rpm low gearing. If you are ok with a standard compact setup, their road cranks also have various models with short crankarms.
So that might be an option for the new V20c. Of course, it would also be possible to get a standard aluminum crank and have it shortened.
In any case, the rotor cranks seem much lighter and stronger than the options above, so they probably would remain my first choice.

 

[kz22]

I'm guessing some of you lucky V20C owners will be parting with your pre-2022 V20 models when your new bikes arrive next month (or early June). I'd be interested to see what you might be getting rid of. PM me if you're thinking of selling your older-model bike.

 

[DavidCH]

For me the new bike seems expensive. If I was the guy that wants the win win chicken dinner then its a no brainer. I think if I had this bike it would only be ridden in competitions and put in its travel case the rest of the time. My latest build is the fastest. 12 speed , 1 deuralleur , no hoods... just an up / down button on the bars and 2 small levers brakes. Weight saving ... I will have to buy a meter but it feels like a kilo.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I like your setup David. It looks fast and I bet losing the brifters saves a bit of weight, especially up high. I have the 2x12 Force AXS with brifters now, but will be switching to the wireless clicks once I can get my hands on them, as well as my CF Campagnolo Super Record TT brake levers on a similar bar. I don't really need the 2X for most rides, but as it is geared now with an 11/30t and a 52/34t it will get me over almost anything I'll ever see.

 

[cpml123]

I have 52/34 with 11/40 so that I can ride up the stupid 12% grade hill.

 

[vosadrian]

Has anyone done any testing on a V20 of the effect of weight on speed on flat roads? Like repeat a loop twice in same conditions at same power level with a 2kg weight difference (full vs empty hydration or something that does not effect aero). I'm pretty sure it would make no difference. The weight is only a factor when hills come into the mix... and even then, probably mainly sustained hills rather than rolling short hills. Having a lighter V20 will certainly improve its climbing.... but really the V20 is the wrong bike for that if climbing long climbs is the aim. I personally would choose a light DF, or something more upright and probably not MBB (for stability) for long steep climbing on a bent. I personally find the MBB a chore for steep long climbing at >10% and prefer a bike I can ride at 5kph with steering stability. I can do the climbing on the V20, but I have to push myself to put out my power to get to a speed that MBB and can work (say 8-10kph+), and that may not be desired if trying to do a long ride and trying to manage the effort.

Of course if you want the ultimate V20 style bike, then the lightest and the most aero is the best... but I think the weight makes little difference to most people with V20s, and the aero is much more significant given this is a bike for going fast where aero matters.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I have 52/34 with 11/40 so that I can ride up the stupid 12% grade hill.

You are a Madman! I did some sustained (for me) 9% grades on my titanium DF bike recently that I couldn't have done on my V20 even if I switched to an 11/34t.

You are right Vos, forget climbing. Just because some people can keep a V20 upright at 6kph doesn't mean they should. I haven't seen or read of anyone doing a weight/speed test. I am sure there is a formula for it, but my simple thought is that it would help most in acceleration since aero trumps weight on the flats, which is actually most of the reason I want the Multi-clicks instead of the brifters. About the weight being higher (COG) it might affect the handling a bit, but it is probably so insignificant as to be undetectable to most riders, or at the least easily accustomed to.

 

[Henri]

Again: The weight is supposed to be saved in an important location. Cruzbike make it seem as if a light front end has benefits for riding characteristics other than total system weight for climbing and accelerating. So when doing comparison tests with and without weights, you should also test with the weight on the rear frame and on the front triangle.

 

[chicorider]

I pulled the trigger on one of the early V20c's to replace my V20, which is really an older V.2 with a V20 front end. I'm looking forward to the refinements (thru axles, flat-mount disc brakes, and sure, a little lighter weight). As for climbing (and I do love climbing on the V), and flat-land speed, I'll get back to you if I notice any differences. I'm excited.

 

[DavidCH]

You are a Madman! I did some sustained (for me) 9% grades on my titanium DF bike recently that I couldn't have done on my V20 even if I switched to an 11/34t.

You are right Vos, forget climbing. Just because some people can keep a V20 upright at 6kph doesn't mean they should. I haven't seen or read of anyone doing a weight/speed test. I am sure there is a formula for it, but my simple thought is that it would help most in acceleration since aero trumps weight on the flats, which is actually most of the reason I want the Multi-clicks instead of the brifters. About the weight being higher (COG) it might affect the handling a bit, but it is probably so insignificant as to be undetectable to most riders, or at the least easily accustomed to.

Not sure, there is a legend called Jason who absolutely adores steep mountain downhills. He regularly does double centuries and probably agrees with the saying no pain no gain. Let see if he chimes in

 

[DavidCH]

Not sure, there is a legend called Jason who absolutely adores steep mountain downhills. He regularly does double centuries and probably agrees with the saying no pain no gain. Let see if he chimes in

@RojoRacing