Cruzbike Time Trial Challenge 2020

nobrakes

Well-Known Member
I have a PowerPod. I’ve never been able to make it work reliably on a recumbent. There’s too many things vary from ride to ride and I think the feet mess up the wind readings. I also have an NGEco crank spider meter and a set of Vector 3s. When they work, the Vectors are great, but when they don’t work they can be a pain. Mine periodically stop working and all the tips on the internet are no use when that happens. The NGEco has been flawless from day 1. If I was in the market I might go with the Assioma recommendation. Or if you have a compatible crankset and don’t need to swap between bikes the NGEco is outstanding quality and value.
 

RL7836

New Member
A power meter is a good investment for those wishing to gauge performance when riding outside. Faster or slower, you know exactly what wattage you did.
While I have power (Powertap hub), attempting to make sense of power, time, speed, wind & heart rate on a week-to-week basis has been mind boggling...
 
25:27 and a PR to boot. But you did it before 18:00 , I might not see anything done after 18:00? I guess if that becomes the case we just send Larry a photo.

I am still seeing options that will be going away. I am not sure when Strava will turn it off for those frugal riders.

I do see the same time that @trplay wrote.
 

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
While I have power (Powertap hub), attempting to make sense of power, time, speed, wind & heart rate on a week-to-week basis has been mind boggling...

300 and 200 are my go to numbers. If it’s a short race on Zwift I’d like to see 300ish. If I’m low maybe I’m out of shape or fatigued and an off day, over 300 and I’m proud of myself.

200 watts seem to be my magic free ride outside number. No matter if the ride is 3 hours or 8 hours I always seem to end up around 200 watts at the end. It’s the same deal as above when it comes to finishing above of below.

Do I do anything with these numbers? No not really, I look at them at the end and relate them to how I felt and that’s about it. No need to start straining to them if you don’t want, use them as a mere reference to how your body felt and build upon those references.
 

nobrakes

Well-Known Member
While I have power (Powertap hub), attempting to make sense of power, time, speed, wind & heart rate on a week-to-week basis has been mind boggling...

The book 'Training and racing with a power meter' is good to get an overall grasp of what to do. TrainerRoad plans are also good at explaining what each interval session is targeting and what kind of improvements they make. It's also good just to look at what normalized power you did on a ride. I find all my hard endurance rides converge to within a few watts too. Your average power for a TT effort becomes a new target to beat in the next attempt etc., so you know when you start your effort what average you are aiming for. I like to put 3 and 10 second power averages on my Garmin and periodically check what the numbers are during an all out effort. It's quite easy to drop off 20 or 30 watts without really noticing. Maybe I'm just not tough enough to hold full gas without thinking about it :)
 

RL7836

New Member
The book 'Training and racing with a power meter' is good to get an overall grasp of what to do.
Yup - have the book and have used TR on the trainer for years. using the power meter on the trainer inside is 'easy' (well not easy at all since there's a lot of pain involved) but I'm finding the outdoors mix of hills, wind, speed, power & heart rate to really complicate things - especially when comparing week to week & trying to make sense of it all. On the trainer, life is simple - just watch the power line & try to keep it on the target line. Outside - not so much....
 

nobrakes

Well-Known Member
Ah, ok. Sorry for hitting you with lots of stuff you already know :) My own strategy is to ignore everything other than power and cadence in a TT effort. In a headwind or up a hill I will go a bit above FTP, on the flat / calm I try to sit around FTP and I back off a little on descents or tailwinds. I'm happy if my average power is up regardless of my speed or time since they are so variable depending on the weather.
 

RL7836

New Member
Ah, ok. Sorry for hitting you with lots of stuff you already know :)
No need to apologize! I'm just whining - LOL.

My own strategy is to ignore everything other than power and cadence in a TT effort. In a headwind or up a hill I will go a bit above FTP, on the flat / calm I try to sit around FTP and I back off a little on descents or tailwinds. I'm happy if my average power is up regardless of my speed or time since they are so variable depending on the weather.
Thinking about the data/rides, I have two quandaries: one is what to focus on while riding and the 2nd is how to make sense of my week-to-week numbers when analyzing after the fact. During the ride, I'm trying to do as you suggested - put out more power up the hills (my 'flat' route has over 400' of vertical) and drop off a bit on downhills. Week 1 - I removed speed and avg speed from the Garmin but I added it back for week 2. I'm not sure I should have done that as it seems to be changing my focus. I rode my week 3 last night and got a new PB but my focus was all over the place. 8^(
 

nobrakes

Well-Known Member
I will enjoy my temporary top slot in w/kg until Jason tells Larry his birthday :)
 
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RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
Oh how quickly at TT effort can have you feeling like a hero and in the next moment grab you around the waste and suplex you into feeling like a zero.

today started out strong when something odd with my gearing had me tall one cog and cranking out 350 watts to hold my cadence for the first minute. Finally shifted down one gear and sudden ease of 30 watts less made 320 feel doable. Again I didn’t focus on my watts but instead on my effort and honestly I was feeling great. Don’t get me wrong I was hard but not to the point where I have doubts of keeping the pace. 10 mins in I glanced at my avg power and I see 319, I think to myself “Chris you are going down”. I make the turnaround and a minute later I’m struggling to keep my cadence in that gear. I find myself bogging down a couple rpms and then I force it back up, I do this for another few minutes trying to convince myself I can manage. 4 miles to go and I’m back down to an avg of 300 like last week and I grab a downshift in defeat. I recover for a minute or two and pump myself back up to finish strong. I grab that up shift back and focus up the road. I keep telling myself just 5 more minutes, that like running the mile in high school. 4 more minutes just make it 2 more minutes and you only have 2 more minutes to go. I reach the bench and know I only have 2 more minutes, I only have to make it around the small loop and back to the bench. I make it around the loop and I’m on the home stretch, less that half a mile to go. I grip my bars and just give it everything I have and cross the line. I know I was short a few watts overall but my pacing was not like last week so I don’t know how my time matched up but I know it was very close.

I knew I was going out strong but sometime that false hope can be so enticing you tell yourself I know it’s a lie but I’m going to enjoy it while I can. You know how I tell you guys and gals not to assume your limits and sometimes you may surprise yourself? Well today I gambled today was going to be one of those days and I came up snake eyes. Do I regret my choice today? No, I learned more about my current condition By failing today then I would have pacing perfect and wondering if I could have gone harder.

next week I’ll find some middle ground, listen too my legs and see where they take me. I’ll gamble 5 times out of 10 for that magical breakthrough and if I get it only 10% of the time it’s worth it.
 

paco1961

Zen MBB Master
Well put. If we could only bottle whatever it is that makes that 1 out of 10 or even 1 out of 100 rides so magical we could retire on the royalties and enjoy a lot more riding. My old track coach always hammered away at one point, that you absolutely can always hit some surprising mark at any level of conditioning if you could get all the stars to line up at once; long term training (months), short term training (days), nutrition (including hydration), mental fitness (developed over long term training), compartmentalization of short term distractions/stresses and finally. . . magic - that extra spark nobody understands. I guess that last part is why you see so many athletes make religious acknowledgements prior to competition. I guess to some it’s like saying, “I’ve taken care of all the things I can control, but on that last bit, little help?”
 

ccooper

Active Member
I appreciate what @RojoRacing writes about his effort...often known as "fly and die". It's a romantic approach to riding hard. It makes you feel kind of macho. It also gives you a built-in excuse for failing to meet your target. But it is less likely to lead to the best times that you are capable of. Let me explain, and I emphasize that I mean no disrespect to Jason, I just want to suggest an alternative approach for those with a different mindset.

My background is in rowing, specifically on the indoor machine often called the "erg". We have organized indoor competitions attracting thousands of competitors, leading up to annual world championship races. I'm an ex-world champion in my age group, and until a few months ago held my age-group world record (65+), so I have some relevant experience. I'll never be a competitive bike racer because I'm too big and too old, but honestly I like riding on Zwift much better that rowing on the erg.

On the erg you have nothing to look at but the "power meter" in front of your face that shows your pace, both instantaneous and cumulative. Races are about 7 minutes long, so they are 70% aerobic and thus a little different from the 30-minute time trials that we are engaged in, but close enough that I think the same principles apply. Virtually every world record, and every championship race for many years, has been won by a competitor rowing even splits or negative splits (getting faster as the race progresses). Fly-and-die simply doesn't work, and I think there are two reasons. First is the exhaustion buildup in your legs, perhaps due to lactic acid or other reasons. You can ignore it in the beginning of the race because you feel pretty good, but it's happening behind the scenes anyway, and you will inevitably pay for it later. Second, there is a mental game going on and it's hard to exert yourself for very long at the edge of your capability.

If you have been riding with power meters for long, and testing your FTP, you have a very good idea of what you are capable of on a given day. Sure, there will be some variation due to "sensations" or your mindset, but the variation will be less than you might think. You will have more consistent results by riding with your power meter (the "Chris Froome" approach) vs. the how-I-feel approach (Alberto Contador). It's not as exciting but it works better because you disperse your energy in a flat power distribution throughout the whole ride, ideally ending up spent at the very end.

When I do a rowing race, which is 2000 meters, I usually break it into 4 intervals, looking at my time for the first 800m, next 600m, next 400m, and final 200m sprint. The first 800m is done at 1 second per 500m over my overall target pace. That makes it feel relatively easy, and almost halfway through the race I'm still feeling pretty good. Then I drop it to my target average pace for the next 600m. Third is 400m at 1 second below target pace. Sprinting at the end can shoot for 2 seconds below. This is not even pacing, it is negative splitting. It works for me because it minimizes my time in the "agonizing pain" zone.

This is harder to do on the bike because there is no cumulative power reading so it's hard to tell whether you are ahead or behind your target. Also there is a lot of variation in each pedal turn, unlike on the rowing machine which is pretty steady. But by watching the power readings continuously, or by taking times at various milestones, you can get a pretty good idea of how you are doing and adjust accordingly. This is why I think that taking a "watch the power meter" approach and try to ride even or negative splits will lead to the best times for most people. I urge you to try it.
 

benphyr

Guru-me-not
The secret, Jason, is weight. Add 40 lbs. and your wattage will be right up there with mine. :D
I'll Ride On in front, behind, draft the whole way if necessary if only I can get to the end at the same time some days.

62kg makes for higher W/kg numbers but sheer W? We light-weights would rather climb if we have to compete with those with more muscle mass.
 
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